Good evening Jess.
Wow I am so tempted, or should I say no, I will, send you a flower and in a curious sense of chivalry I offer it with a profound sense of thanks that you have found such a humanity in yourself that you are so willing to share that with your children. You see, I was the "bad guy" in my marriage and it took ten years of divorce to see and accept that for what it was, and to make steps to correct a very serious character flaw, but I learned, ahh if only such learning were easy...
Well anyway, to admit to ones loved children that they choose their flaws as an escape from a high standard, most probably self imposed,
oohh.. this is getting a little beyond my understanding and away from the topic.... I was just trying to say thank you for what you are teaching your children. Such courage. Such acts of personal responsibility.
This is really what I meant when I offered my opinion on ones sense of belonging. To be a part of.... I am sure that Alfred Adler, the father of individual psychology, would consider the guiding of and communicating with others about belief systems and ideals really does encourage a sense of belonging even in the commonwealth of mingle. Is this not a commonwealth? Is this not a place to feed and be fed? Is this not a place where judgement is suspended? For the most place..yes. Is this not a place to be nurtured and to nurture?
Oh well rose coloured glasses sometimes get in the way.

I know with my children I struggled with the balance between allowing them to form their own opinions and guiding them to what you know is safer for them.

It is your job as a parent to keep them safe but if you take this too far you create fearful, closeminded, etc... adults.


The balance here is soooo very important.

I agree....

to teach by example...perhaps?

To show compassion, to show empathy, to show your children a different way to what is constantly bombarding them through tv, and school?

I ask them when they do something inappropriate.... did it feel right to do that, at the time? Does it still feel right?

I have asked this question of them, since they were tiny...I ask them to 'check in ' with themselves.... to utilise the internal barometer, of rightness and wrong ness... of them...

I think example is the most missing element for parents. I watch parents act like unruly children and chastise their children for the same thing. The hypocrisy is not healthy.

Drinkin, cussin, being disrespectful to others, selfishness, telling the kids religion is the way to be and then not being a good religious person as example, etc...

Not in anyway implying I am perfect because I am far from it but I did try to teach by example. It did not show that they learned from it so much when they were little but now that they are grown I do see the same actions being done. I do have to groan on seeing the repeat of my mistakes that they witnessed and are reinacting.

Dragoness, it is why I parent as I do....


I lived this hipocrasy... as a child.... a very damaged household, with very damaged parents...

behind closed doors was horrendous... and yet the 'Public Face' was one of the 'Brady Bunch'.....that was more painful for me than the abuse.


I never forgot the hipocrasies that surrounded me in my formative years, (they were very deep scars)....and once motherhood arrived (at 21)... I knew how I would be as a parent......REAL....FLAWED.... and HONEST.

We can teach our children to be accountable, responsible and respectful. Atleast that's what I'm doing. Change begins with a single step.

I used to think that would be enough. But sadly our children live in the world and when the people who actively get access to our children stand there and tell our children we are lazy because we are stay at home full time mothers, or selfish if we take a job, or bad dad's because we tolerate being forced to work long hours because that is what good jobs often require, or sing smack because that is what producers allow, or sell over sexed clothes because that happens to be what is on the runway for adults, buy minors alcohol or give them cigarettes because it is legal for minors to smoke just illegal to sell them cigarettes, and illegals, even though they are not, and tolerate being treated like sub-humans because in their countries slave wages and child labor for products we buy are made by slave labor and working here keep families alive.

lol, nice try Dragoness, and I give you points for trying with this one, but what you just described is a ready made excuse for those unwilling to accept personal responsibility.

Yes God tempts us to be good, by promising an afterlife of "heavenly peace". Yes the Devil (Satan, Lucifer, Charles Manson) tempts us towards the evil side, or eternal damnation; but in the end it is still the personal choices made by us, that resolve what will happen or not happen. Thus it is our own responsibility that comes into play.

For example, I could say that I went to the bar, got totally drunk out of my gourd and slept with three prostitutes all because Satan talked me into it, by leading my wife into another man's arms, thus making me depressed. Then I see others drowning their sorrows, so I mimich them, and because sex is so pleasurable, Satan is easily capable of fooling my drunken mind into thinking that sleeping with three prostitutes will make me feel better in the end.

But in the end, it is my personal responsibility to choose the correct path to follow, and make the responsible decisions. Satan does not come in, and take over my body, mind and soul and walk me around like a puppet on a string. When I do something wrong, it is because I chose to do so.

I make a lot of people angry when they hear my views about accountability. But I feel like if you do the crime you should do the time. I don't care if you had a crappy childhood, or you are poor, our your dumb as a rock generally, addicted, or crazy as a loon in the USA, at least, you can get medical care to get you back to sobriety, and education, get a job, and get help if you ask for it. You don't want your kids there are plenty of people who will take them either temporarily or permenently and raise them.

The problem with Andrea Yates was a husband and the medical system in this country that were not accountable to be sure that a Mother had the help she needed to be healthy. However even if Andrea Yates might have been suffering from post partum depression she took the lives of her children and should have to pay with the rest of her life in prison too. Medical treatment is a treatment you earn in this country, unless of course you are a child, truely disabled, or a prisoner and then it is the states responsibility. Unfortuneately we see prisoners as dependent on the state and allow them not to work for any of their basic needs which I see is flawed.

Are our support systems perfect? No. Some of them really suck to be quite honest. What we offer children for the Foster care system, some of our pitiful public schools, subsistence assistance allowances, uncollected child support, and criminals that scoff the system. I know people get pinched in the cracks in the system all the time. Been there myself. But you have to keep going.

It seems to me when people people hit our streets with out much more than the clothes on their back; can learn the language, work, save money, and make a way I don't have a lot of sympathy with people who even being given help time and time again just can't get their act together.

This site is full of single parents who work, raise their kids to be good productive people, and do it sober without whineing and with out making excuses. I just imagine that is typical for society in general.