No, but how many children have died at their parents hands cos SS DIDNT intervene.

It seems to me SS cant do right for wrong, they r damned if they do and damned if they dont.

Social services!!!......don't make me laugh

I don't disagree with you, but SS have the resources rather than just to take children and try to help reunite families, help the parents to be ablt to take care of their own. That is my point.

SS cannot control the children that they do not know about, but they can help, support and protect the families of the ones that they do.

My last post had a quote in it, that suggests they have been encouraged to attend sessions that would help them, they REFUSED. When u refuse help from SS, it doesnt look very good, it looks like u r hiding imo.

Welcome to the site and to this thread Sommer.

Her sister has been interviewed, and in the interview she states her sister and her partner are not fit to raise children because of their violent behaviour. The lady ( the baby factory mum) has also stated both her and her partner have been violent ( although not to the children) But; and here's the but, she has never asked for help in any way.I think she is trying to prove she can be a good mother, without some form of counseling I doubt she can do it on her own.


I am not sure how the courts stand on this one,can they make a ruling that this unfortunate woman and her partner receive counseling and parenting classes. (?)

BTW, I don't trust the Social Services, remember baby P, Victoria Climbe and the unmamed torso of a child they found in the Thames ( Social Services were called in a number of times by the neighbours) then the child disappeared only for his torso to show up in the river.

That guy standing next to her in the pic maybe
I don't know, but I do know what desperate is and I still haven't gotten that desperate. No I'll just go without...

This is exactly my point....should they intervene....or not? should they allow the parents to bring up their children? at the risk of the children being harmed, possibly murdered? so we can then have a moan about SS again and say its their fault?

Anything that can be done, should be done. If mistakes have been made before, dont u think they r under even more pressure not to let it happen again?

It seems to me that some of the posts made in this thread r suggesting the parents should be given a chance to be a family, even tho there ARE risks, which is completely bizarre to me. They have been closely monitored and assessed for a long no. of yrs, and it had been been decided they r not fit to be parents. They dont want help, they just want to have their kid, they dont want to learn how to do it properly, they think they know it all already.

From everything i have read about this, the mothers motives r wrong, and she cant get help is she doesnt want it, hence why the decision has been made for her, she clearly is in denial about being an unfit mother.

Hi and thank you for the welcome, Bonny.

I think you have given me a different spin on this, one that makes me rethink the whole story, as it can be looked at from so many angles, My inital reaction, was the paper, then the sister, then of course looking at the mother. There is no smoke without fire, I believe there has been neglect and abuse here, but then some dork sitting in a white tower and ordering the removal of baby after baby and then some guy from the British Taxpayers Association coming out with frankly, crap, about 'this woman having babies when she knows they will be removed' just smacks that the system has given up on her and will simply take the children, if she has done it 13 times, what's to say she is not going to do it another 13 times?

She clearly does need help, in raising her children and who doesn't? She has not got the family, only a venomous sister who has displayed that, she has lost 13 children, so her state of mind is not going to be the best, her lack of emotional intelligence in that 'I'll keep getting pregnant until they let me keep one' is obviously not going to get her what she clearly wants, asking for help, will, she needs to have a social worker attached to her, so that she and the ssw can get to the point where mother and child can be safe, and together in a family unit, that with this pending birth could be done and with the support that is in the community available, it is there, just that the support networks and the community do not know how to utilise it. The mother is I would speculate pretty terrified that her child will be removed, and is resporting to last resorts to do keep the child.

A messy, convulated, detailed case that I'm sure has a file as thick as a tree trunk.

Dont u think they have tried this after the other 13 children were born?!

She DOESNT WANT HELP!



Actually, i disagree that wat he said was crap...im a tax payer, so i am paying for her children that she couldnt cope with. Its a valid point...why the hell should i pay for her to have children she cant look after cos she is in denial about being a risk to them?

The only way she can get wat she wants, is by accepting the right help, and yrs of cbt to get her away from this obsession of having children when she is not mentally able.

THEN, maybe keeping her children would be an option.

Well, that is one way of looking at it...

But I don't think as black and white as that, I like to unwrap a little.

If she is hiding behind the sofa everytime they contact her, then she has something to hide, agreed.

Here in a sentence is what I see, based on the information s far, I see a woman, a woman who lacks integrity, sense, emotional intelligence and is living a vicious repeat of her own life.

SS have allowed it to gone on too long, she has, but they are running rings around each other.

She needs to be ordered to have sessions, by a judge, to enable them to live and love each other, there are family units in the UK, attached to the domestic agencies, governed by the police and social services, centres where families can go under supervision, and be montitored and be supported. Parenting is all about learning, my kids and are 19. 21 and I have to learn a whole new set of parenting skills, because their needs are different from when they were 12 and 5 and 15...

Ordering her to have surgery, just taking babies away now, is not going to help her, and clearly the sister is not going to, she should have help 10 babies ago, one should have set the alarms bells ringing, two should have put the wheels in motion to get them all help and three, should have gotten some damn serious meetings called in what to do...

Thirteen??? If I was in charge, I would have fired the lot of them.

I don't know that and nor would I be so brave as to claim that I do.



I am a tax payer too, in two countries, but I can safely say, I would rather my taxes went to keeping families together, than filling a system that has clear leaks in it and the money dribbles through and is then washed away with baby after baby being born.



I don't disagree with you there, at all.

I do state, however, that this should have been done a long time ago...

I see a woman in denial, who doesnt want to be helped., I see a selfish woman who doesnt think about the repercussions for these children, and shows no signs of even caring about them.



So its SS fault again, its kinda strange considering SS have been accused of not supporting her, yet they have offered her help that she doesnt want. They cant force her to not have children, they can offer help, which she doesnt to take, that would be regarded as being unco-operative, and unwilling to change.

Its funny, u have assumed she hasnt been offered help, and u have assumed her sister is non genuine, yet u have no evidence to back that up. The woman and her sister were at least on speaking terms as conversations have occurred regarding the "why"s of her child bearing.

If wat her sister says is true, she doesnt give a **** about the kids, she just wants the government to pay up.

From wat ive read, help has been offered for a long time now, (prob since her first) she just doesnt want it, hence why they have had to take that decision for her, because she is unwilling to get help.

No, I have not said it is Social Service's fault, I don't think apportioning blame here will do any good.

I have not assumed anything, I have stated that I do not think that this has been handled well.

Social services are the ones who are supposed to be able to deal with situations like this and here we have a woman who is pregnant again, trying to keep a child, I also think that is not the best way forward, adding a new child to an already complicated case. Also, I cannot dismiss that there are another 13 children involved here.

Here we have a woman, who is not what I would call mentally stable, is fighing in an bad way to have a child. Social services will take this one away, there is no doubt about that.

She is also being named by her own sister, as one who should be sterilised and has been quoted rather crassly that she does not give a ****'

This is a deep dark place for the mother here, who on the surface, is seen as a money, grabbing, not giving a crap about her babies and is trying to screw a government, I see a woman, that just maybe, just maybe, completely mentally suffering for the loss of her children, that she did not know how to handle and how to receive help, and was fearful of authority, scared, frightened and unable to negotiate her way through this and lashing out.

I can't be so blase as to say, what the papers are displaying, that she should be forced a sterilisation.

I never knew how to take care of children when I had mine at the tender ago of 19, but I learned as I went along. As any mother does, and I cannot possibly say how I would feel if I had 13 babies taken away from me.

But I can look a tad deeper and not pour scorn on one very, very sad woman who has to be ordered of receiving some help to give her and more importantly her child, a chance of being a family.

SOmething that should have happened a long time ago.

That is my opinion, not in an way prejudiced against yours or anyone else's for that matter.

I have seen this before and I believe it is an innergenerational thing. She was born in the system ao all she knows is the system.

My guess is the only nutureing she gets is when she is pregnant so she keeps getting pregnant because that being "cared for" is what makes her feel safe or like she has some place in society.

I am sure the press attention and the social workers running in and out giving her attention in some distored way gives her the only attention she gets.

If she were not pregnant would she get public aid or allowed to starve? Or become homeless?

It is pretty clear her body feels normal pregnant at this point so when she is not she is driven to become again.

Sad thing is she will probably eventually die in childbirth. Eventually her body will become so depleated that her health will collasp.

These parents were given a couple of yrs with each of the first 4 children, they had plenty opportunities to brush up on their parenting skills.

After the first child was taken, they wouldve been offered help in their parenting skills, why did it happen another 12 times after that?

Im sorry, but i DO blame the parents for not accepting help. if they genuinely wanted to have a family, they wouldve done wat they needed to to get there.

If this woman is so mentally unsound, she should be sectioned.

This is a thread i am merely opinionating on, i enjoy a good debate.

As long as the parents r unwilling to accept help, i believe the children SHOULD be taken from them.

Change happens after acceptance of who we are, she cant change till she acknowledges she has a problem. Hence the risk remains.

Just wanted to add another piece of info that shocked me....she claims she was accused of abandoning her latest child...



Wat kind of a mother up sticks and leaves hospital only after a few hrs of giving birth?!! and then not going in again till next day?! if i had a baby in intensive care, i would be at their side till they were outta danger, and im sure my family would be there, by my side, at the hospital.

I think you are extremely close here and what a brilliant way of looking at it.

I think it runs far deeper than a woman who just does not care about her children and has this overwhelming desire to make a government pay up and therefore her acts are to be scorned, and Social Services are there to prevent rather than cure, so in taking the children, each and every one that is easier than looking deeper within to see where the real problems are and seek her some help.

My own mother lost care of her children, back in the 70's.

Nobody helped her then, it is something that I and my brother have done now, as adults ourselves. There is the help oit there, she could not find it, she hid from it, because she was frightened and 30 years later she is only now beginning to recover.

Interesting debate.

Hi Pink lady.

I am not in any doubting your words or those of the reports, although the Daily Mail is a trashy paper, and will go to town on this story, primarily for political benefit.

I cannot agree that a person who is mentally unstable, should just be sectioned, in the UK, people are sectioned when they are a danger to soceity.

And if that were the case, then there would be a lot of people who are sectioned.

I'm sorry for the time it took me to rply to various views............. I dined with my children today, and just got back.

My view on this is We are all at fault! I was raised to believe that the rearing of a child or children is down to the "village" e.g, extended family! As a child I had various aunts and uncles that my mother could call on at anytime to babysit. Gone are the days when neighbours were helpful and we all looked out for each other, I do despair at the state of our society when we no longer care about each other.

This aside, the system has been failing our youngsters for many years, we have social workers who are clearly not experienced in their jobs ( yet they hold the key to making decisions that will affect countless numbers of people) You only have to look at past cases where Social Services messed up to realise that once someone assumes the position of a Social Worker they cease to let the milk of human kindness and common sense flow.Most of these "professionals" have the right qualifications for the job on paper but when it comes down to the wire, they fail!! They need to look at each case as an individual case and stop placing everyone under the same umbrella (no two families are alike) it is time these people started thinking outside of the box!!

Look beyond this young woman's "crime" and start asking questions, as some of the respondents to this post have quite rightly said, she may be going through some emotional trauma which is causing her to think irrationally............