Pagans and witches are frequently labeled "devil worshippers" despite the fact that Satan or the devil is a judeo-christian-muslim concept.

How did this mislabeling happen?

Our story begins with the early hebrews. As a people, the hebrews struggled to create and then maintain their social and religious identity in a harsh environment during a period in which they were embroiled in repeated wars. The hebrews believed they were a people chosen by their deity, called Yahweh, as we can see, for example, in Genesis 12:3.

Before Moses leads the Israelites out of Egypt, he tells Pharaoh that the plagues are coming "so that you may know that the lord makes a distinction between the Egyptians and Israel" (Exodus 11:7). From Moses' perspective, Israel is favored by Yahweh, and those outside of Israel (the Egyptians) are not. We can characterize this perspective as an "insiders and outsiders" or "us and them" worldview.

This worldview develops as a prominent theme throughout the collection of hebrew writings we know as the old testament. The sixth and seventh century B.C.E. prophets carry the theme even further. These prophets suddenly substitute descriptions of Israel's enemies with the enemy's deities, specifically their monsters and demons. That is, instead of referring to their enemy as this or that tribe or city, they refer to them as monsters. Their enemies are no longer people, then, but demons who must be crushed. This process is called demonization.

In that same period, the jews characterize the religious beliefs and observances of their non-jewish neighbors as "abominations" (Deuteronomy 18:9), and describe them as "fortune telling, soothsaying, charms, divining, casting of spells, oracles, and consulting with ghosts and spirits of the dead" (Deuteronomy 18:10-12). The jewish writers overlook the fact, however, that their own religious practices involve prophesying by oracles who frequently consult dead leaders and prophets, and who do indeed tell the fortunes and future of others. What would be labeled as the casting of spells - such as sending a plague of locusts - when done by an outsider, is considered a miracle from god when accomplished by an insider.

One problem with the "us and them" worldview is that it frequently condemns the behavior of outsiders and glorifies that of insiders, even when the behavior is exactly the same.

One of the first ways satan is portrayed in hebrew literature is as the principle of opposition, or an obstruction to a goal. For example, in numbers 22:22-25, we are told the story of Balaam who gets on his donkey and heads in a direction Yahweh doesn't want him to go. Yahweh sends satan, his loyal servant, to stand in the road and turn the animal aside, which satan does. Many versions of the bible mistranslate "satan" as "angel," but the hebrew word used in this story is le-satan-lo.

Keeping with the theme of opposition and obstacle, satan is used again in 1 chroniciles 21:1 when King David orders the taxation of his people. The scripture says, "The satan stood up against Israel and incited David to number the people." Here we see an unpopular action demonized even though performed by Israel's own king.

By the first and second centuries C.E., we see the formation of a few separatist jewish sects who remove themselves from mainstream jewish culture, usually to live jewish laws more "purely." The Essenes are an example of such a group. The writings of these separatist groups characterize jews not belonging to the sect as "satans", accuse them of being in apostasy, and of being seduced by evil. For the first time we see jews demonizing other jews. The more these sects separated themselves from mainstream culture, the more extreme they became. In time, their writings give satan more prominence, make him into a personified figure, and assign him several different histories.

These histories often place satan in the position of an angel who engages in combat with heavenly forces and loses.

Not surprisingly, the tendency to describe the world as a heavenly combat zone continues into the christian gospels. The early christians are, after all, considered by some historians to have initially been a jewish separatist sect. The gospels, particularly Mathew and Luke, protray Jesus' life and ministry as a cosmic struggle between the forces of good and evil. Satan and his forces are a war with Yawheh and Jesus, and they conspire to bring about Jesus' destruction and crucifixion. Satan is also given as the cause of conflict between Jesus and the jewish leadership.

So I can go on and on and on with how then the christians then accused other christians labeling them as heretics, and how the Romans where then labeled as demons because they believed in many deities and as the years go by the German witches (mid-wives) as they where called where then killed for they didn't believe in christianity or wanted to follow it.

So by ousting out other faith systems and going as far as trying to kill them because of their beliefs has pushed the mediterrenean mythologies to the point of fearing them or die. Today they still have a major impact in the world finding ways to try to gain membership.

Christians even found a way to persecute other christians when a writer Irenaeus produced his massive five-volume work on heretics titled "Against Heretics". A heretic, according to Irenaeus, is a fellow Christian whose views differ from the consenus and is therefore an agent of satan." For the first time, we see the word "heretic" in christian literature and the beginning of demonization of christians by other christians. Irenaeus states that hereitic literally means "choice" and a heretic is "one who makes choices." He states that making choices is evil, and suggests that church leaders who want to eliminate heresy must not allow people to ask questions, for it is questions that make people heretics.

So many people at the time weren't allowed to ask questions. They simply have to accept what the bible had to say or their church leaders. If questioned they would be labeled a heretic.


Fortunately, today we can practice other spiritual belief systems without fearing to be slaughtered for it. We can ask questions as much as we want and make our own conclusions regardless of what others think of us later. So if you wish to follow a different spiritual path then do it. Afterall, it is most important that you are happy with the choices you make. Let them call you a heretic, embezzle, infidel, or other names. If it happens just use that famous "block" button on your Mingle2 options and don't pay them any mind.

Good info, Smiless

I primarily wrote this for those who practice earth spirituality and have problems identifying themselves when a mediterrenean mythology confronts them as a devil worshiper. With this information they can explain that it wasn't their faith system that had judged and persecuted other belief systems, but instead the mediterreanen religion that had done this first and almost eliminated peaceful practices because of difference of opinions, herding mentality, and the fear factor.

Fortunately, many are researching and understanding that Earth-Spirituality is truly a peaceful practice compared to those who follow the god of abraham and his followers, yet nevertheless I am happy to post this.

Perhaps in the future I will add more interesting information for my brothers and sisters on this religious forum.

You make so much sense John and you explain it in a way that is lucid and intelligent. I hope you do continue to write about this, and not just on Internet forums but in other writings as well.

I personally believe that it is key, not just to open people's minds and hearts to Earth-Spirituality (or the idea of seeing divinity in nature in general), but it is equally important to express the truly asburd and egotistical human-centricity of the mediterranean mythologies.

People truly need to see the fallacy of those religions before they can genuinely move forward. They have been brainwashed with infinitly many excuses by the religions that are based on those mythologies as well as by the doctrines of those mythologies themselves.

Those religious myths are based entirely on the very idea of mythological jealous Godheads who will become very angry with anyone who rejects the doctrines as being the "Word of God".

And if the jealous God himself doesn't get you, his fallen angel Satan will!

It's a lose-lose mythology. The only way to aquire the love of those mythological male-chauvinistic gods is to become a bigot in the name of God. Not only by following the prejudices set up against women and gays, etc. But also by requiring that the followers reject "heathens". The doctrine itself teaches not to hang around with "heathens", kick the dust from your feet and leave.

And that's the milder new version. The orignal version said to murder the heathens, their wives and children and destory their entire cities and temples.

These are truly the most hateful mythologies ever created by mankind.

Unfortunately so many people today actually believe that such hateful dogmas could be the "Word of God" and not merely worship the doctrine as the "Word of God" but also defend it with a vengence that is highly emotionally and politically charged.

It's truly sad that so many humans have fallen into the trap of accepting those mythologies as the "Word of God".

It's truly not much different from worshiping Zeus. Except in many ways the mythology of Yahweh is actually worse because it's far more bigoted. At least Zeus was the God of 'gods' and therefore even Zeus wasn't obscessed with egotistical jealousy or male-chauvinism.

In many ways Zeus was actually on far higher moral ground than Yahweh, the God of Abraham.

We would have been far better off had the mythology of Zeus actually survived instead of being crushed by this godforsaken myth of a jealous male chuavinistic bigoted Yahweh.

Neither of these personified mythological beasts represent anything divine. They are both the antithesis of creation and nature.

And people need to come to grips with this before they can move forward.

And then of course Jesus ended up getting himself nailed to these mythologies when the actual truth is that he was most likely trying to get people to see precisely what you and I try to get people to see.

This is why is seems so hopeless to me. If someone like Jesus tried to wake people up from it and only ened up being nailed to it via gospels that he never even wrote, then what chance to people like you and I have?

Especially when the followers of these religions are just going to shove Jesus in our face as thought he's actually supporting the godforsaken myths that they worship. Jesus didn't support those myths at all. He was nailed to a pole physically for blaspheme, and then later nailed to the doctrine via the words of other men and their gospels.

Why people can't see this is beyond me. Even according to the gospel myths Jesus didn't agree with the horrible ideals and directives that had been attributed to the mythical God of Yahweh. There's no way he was the son of that mythical god or the incarnation of that mythical god or any other such nonsense.

Jesus problem did exist as a man though, and he probably did get himself nailed to a pole for blaspheme. Those parts of the myth may very well have happen. After all, the whole religion was about slaughtering heathens and if Jesus taught the moral values that the Gospels claim then clearly he would have been a heathen with respect to the mythical god of Yahweh.

It's a horrible historical story and appears to be nothing more than a reflection of human the culture that wrote it.

I believe now is the time that all Earth Spiritualists regardless of order, cult, movement, or however the term is called should really put in alot of effort in educating as many people as possible to show the benefit of humanitarian efforts, the meaning of peace, and the importance of living in harmony with each other and most of all Earth.

The Native Americans tried very hard to educate Europeans and later Americans, but it was unheeded, disregarded, or discouraged. Natives where seen as uneducated, primitive, and as savages. Just look in the Constitution today. There is a part that still indicates that Natives are savages. A Supreme law document that is still in tact!

Today I can really just shake my head, as I can clearly see who where really the savages then and even today in many ways.

Now I mention Native Americans, but as you know, we can look at other civilizations and the injustice they received. It is not just limited to Native Americans at all. I am just using this as one example.

As I dig into the many Native speeches that I saved on a word document, I find one in particular interesting.

This is a poem or speech given by Chief Seattle to Governor Isaac Stevens of the Washington Territory in 1855.

Teach your children
What we have taught our children -
That the earth is our mother.

Whatever befalls the earth
Befalls the sons and daughters of earth.
If men spit upon the ground,
They spit upon themselves.
This we know.
The earth does not belong to us;
We belong to the earth.
This we know.
All things are connected
Like the blood which unites one family.
All things are connected.
Whatever befalls the earth
Befalls the sons and daughters of the earth.
We did not weave the web of life;
We are merely a strand in it.
Whatever we do to the web,
We do to ourselves...

While the natives embraced the European newcomers and showed them how to endure the harsh winters in a exotic land they would have lived in peace with the white man indefinetly. Why couldn't the Europeans or later the Americans do the same?

I believe it is because of the bible that brainwashed their minds to dangerous superstitions.

It is unfortunate that the bible brainwashed these settlers later on to do such injustice to the natives and created such chaos amongst them.

If the Europeans would have brought with them a different spiritual practice perhaps druidism, witchcraft, or Eastern mysticism then we would have had less wars (if any) and more peace and harmony amongst the natives. I also believe the natives could have lived anywhere with the settlers in peace and not be restricted to a reservation like today.

Over the hundreds of years we still have bitterness and misunderstandings on both sides of the spectrum. It has not ended as the Americans see it as a victory over the Native Indians. The natives only shake their head in sadness as they watch their members dwindle. I also shed a tear as less then 4000 Miccussokee natives can still speak their native language. In less then 50 years maybe only a few hundred will speak their native tongue anymore. Soon their wisdom, knowledge, and lessons will be nothing more then ashes spread in the air long forgotten.

It is sad that many nod their head agreeing with the wisdom natives give, yet only do the opposite of what it entails, but so is the world today. Values have shifted in todays society. I hope one day that some beliefs that they find as justified creating superstitions, prejudice, racism and injustice will dwindle and be replaced with peace, tolerance, love, and harmony for everyone that lives on this planet.

I wonder if all Native Americans were truly "peaceful" to each other before the settlers arrived. From what I understand, some natives in North and Central America were very brutal to each other. I could be wrong, but that is what I have read. So, to say that all Native Americans were immune to the human capacity for war and human slaughtering is not all together accurate. I am in no way condoning what occured to the Native Americans; it infuriates me that this occured in history, but it does not suprise me. It has been going on for millenia in every culture, on every continent and will continue because that is a part of human nature.

Native American

While every civilization from the past and in the future will have disagreements, disputes, and misunderstandings, it is only obvious that Natives Americans had their fair share of problems. This doesn't excuse what the Europeans and Americans did to them just because they didn't follow their ethics and teachings that they find correct. Who are the Europeans and Americans to tell the Natives how to live and most of all where to live?

While the Natives embraced the Europeans in the beginning and helped them survive in the new lands they in return where slaughtered and later told where to live and how to be. Did you know that many of the natives where forced to become Christian, rather they like it or not! Then they where told to turn against their people if they want to be saved and go to heaven. Some thank you that was!

Natives in Central and South Americans such as the Aztecs, Incas, and Mayans where alot more brutal with smaller native american tribes. This was very brutal at the time, yet the North American Indians don't have such history of brutality or at least as extreme as those examples. There I can agree with you that Natives had wrong ethics such as slavery and sacrifices.

Here are some questions for you.

Have the Native Americans threatened foreign cultures that if they don't follow their spiritual path that they will go to a hell?

Have they tried to convert others into their spiritual belief system?

Did they have to help the newcomers that entered their lands to survive the harsh winters?

As a matter of fact the natives didn't have to help, but they believed that the land belongs to no one. They believed that we are merely a strand of a big web and that we CAN share it together peacefully. This wisdom until today has still not intrigrated into American society as everyone boasts so proudly they are American.

It is too bad for now the older generation of natives have so much wisdom to share, but so few who will listen. Not even their children are interested anymore (many of them that is) and are so Americanized that they just follow along the path of what most do.

I believe that the reason for this is a matter of practicality.

Today it would be impossible to live like the Indians lived. The Indians were nomads. They didn't even build permant structures. They moved around based on weather etc. I'm not even sure if they did all that much 'farming' or growing. They were basically hunter gatherers.

How is that going to work in todays world? It's not going to fly.

Where there ever any seriously large North American Indian 'cities'?

I'm talking complete with sewer systems and all, like we've seen in some other ancient cultures such as athe Aztecs, Mayans, etc.

I don't think the North American Indians ever built anything like that.

In today's world with today's population density we're stuck in an industrial rut.

To get out of this rut is going to take far more effort and willingness than most people are willing to even think about much less implement.

Of course, with this kind of population density we could never go back to being 'hunter-gather nomads'. I'm not sure if people would want to live like that anyway. Having a permant residence and being able to just go to a few local stores for food and supplies is pretty darn convenient. It also gives people a sense of security.

There are ways of perserving the best of both worlds.

However, our political leaders are not even remotely heading in that direction.

In modern society the only true hope for peaceful and successful change is through politics. But politics has become a cut-throat arena of power! Politicians battle for their own agendas, or the agendas of the people they represent, which often means to defend competitive free capitalism. It's all about money and financial security today. We've ended up becoming worshipers of Mammon because it seems that we have no choice. Money seems to be the basis of not only, survival and security, but also the key to happienss. After all, if you're having difficulty surviving and your insecure, it's hard to feel happy.

Of course, the real problem stems from those who are overly wealthy and who can't be 'happy' unless they have so much money and luxuries that conerns about survival and security disappear almost entirely (other than the fact that they still continue to worry about the simple fact that they could lose their current position of being secure). So it's an oxymornic security anyway.

In any case, the solution to our problems today needs to be somewhere between the extremely dependent "Back-to-living-off-the-land-as-nomads" attitude, and the utterly insensitive "Pee-on-nature-and-just-grab-money" attitude.

We need to find some respectable middle-of-road idealism.

But right now, no such idealism even exists on the political table.

So how can it be implemented if it isn't even being considered?

I don't blame the masses for giving up.

It's the politcians who are screwing everything up.

And the truly sad part is this,...

Sincere meek people who have great ideas for solutions don't typically run for office. They have no desire for political POWER.

The people who actaully RUN for office are the cut-throats who have agendas.

Having said this, I have to also say that our current president appears to be an exception to this rule. I truly believe the Obama is a sheep among wolves. I truly believe that he wants to do the right things. Unfortunately he's stuck in the same trap as everyone else.

The financial monster of Mammon cannot just be ignored. The whole time we're trying to make a transistion to a less financially-dependent lifestyle we need to fight off the Dragon of Mammon who has already devoured our entire society.

It's like we're already in the stomach of the Dragon of Mammon and now we need to fight our way back outside again just to confront the Dragon face-on so that we can then begin to slay it.

We're in a very BAD way.

By golly John you just gave me a great idea!


I should write a fantasy book called, "The Dragon of Mammon".

It begins with the world as it is today. Then tells the story of precisely what all needs to be done and how it all unfolds to become a peaceful world where everyone lives in harmony with each other and with Mother Earth.

A story about how the world fought itself out of the stomach of the Dragon of Mammon and returned to a life of harmony with each other and with nature.

I could do it too. I know what needs to be done and how it "could" unfold.

The only thing I would need to fantasize about would be creating the characters of the world LEADERS who lead the people to this fairytale ending.

But all the changes they would bring about is precisely what needs to be done.

I should write the book!

Damn, so many ideas. So little time to do them.

My friend of 96 years old doesn't live in a teepee or anything He lives in a house with electricity. He doesn't have a phone or television though, but he has pretty much everything else. It is not that he couldn't have a television or phone, it is just that he doesn't find any wisdom or importance in it.

What I was talking about is the wisdom that natives share with us that we as Americans or Europeans for that matter ignore.

The natives actually did grow food. Corn, squash, pumpkins to name a few. They actually showed the Europeans how to grow it and where excellent farmers and hunters. They only used resources that they needed at the moment and when they used it they would thank the spirits for offering it to them. For example if a deer was shot they would make a celeberation thanking the spirit of the east for giving them this food and use everything of the animal to survive the winter. Nothing would be wasted. I am afraid today Americans do waste a great deal of things. The reuse of plastic bags, the throwing away of food, the use of water, etc. etc.
Americans make over 40% of the worlds waste, yet only represents 5% of the world population! This has to change and native american wisdom has been saying this all along.

Now what you say about the political problem, I agree with, yet the Native Indians philosophy that is so simple still can be used in today's society. I am not saying we have to live in a teepee now and go out to hunt for deer. I wouldn't, I am a vegertarian and I can't bear to see any animal die, yet we can take the philosophy and understand that we shouldn't be raping the resources at such alarming rates, or abusing the Earth for personal gains, or act like we have a right to destroy it because we believe we are superior to it. This is of course my personal feelings anyway.

The land can be shared by all people and we can have laws that apply for the people. Such laws that allow us people to live a life without greed, gain, or destruction of other lifestyles. If you ask most of the people anywhere you go they will agree with you on this, yet why isn't it being done? Because like you say money is controlling status, lifestyle, and desire for most. This money that we cherish ( a piece of paper) seems to determine how we as people should live.

There are actually political parties that have good representation of such qualities of life. I think it is only a matter of time before they get more popular amongst the people. Unfortunately when things get worse they will get popular. I have been a member of the Green Party for a long time. Fortunately they are more popular in Germany and have a bigger community. One of the reasons why Germany is one of the leaders in the world when it comes to new innovations of preserving our environment, having value in organic foods, and keeping strict laws on recycling is because the people value it and believe it will help preserve this Earth for our future generations. I am not saying Germany is perfect, it has a long ways to go and it has its problems like any other country, but the direction it is going is by far a rolemodel that many other European countries have adapted and followed along with.

If America will embrace these qualities is another question. In most cases Americans like to come up with their own innovative ideas without looking at other countries. What ashame, because I believe it is in the best interest of Americans to keep an open mind and use examples that have proven to help socieities live peacefully or even perserve the planet. When you talk of the Green Party over here most people will not even know much about it or give it anykind of credit. It seems like Republicans and Democrats attract the most followers for they have the money to get themselves on major networks influencing to do so.

Anyway, it is a big problem, but it can be addressed and fixed if people realize how important it is to preserve the planet and find different ethics that ensure peace and harmony amongst each other and most of all nature.

Concerning the United States, as I am no expert because I spend more time watching European news channels on the internet then watch television as a whole; I can see that many of the Americans over here fail to understand how the government works. There are exceptions of course, yet many don't even know what the Constitution represents, the Bill of Rights, or the Declaration of Independence entails.

There is a part in the Declaration of Independence that states if the government is not doing its job right then we the people can overthrow the government through force if have to, to restore order and rights for the people who live in the lands. If this law has been altered, or changed, or if it is just ignored, I find it amazing that the people do not find the courage to actually do what it takes to make sure we can live a life that can keep the Earth safe, clean, and preserved for our future generations to enjoy.

I would say that the number one priority is education! Yes this country needs to get a system that allows all of the schools equal access to good information, qualified teachers with better pay, reduce 3 month summer vacation to 1 month like most countries do. Instead I am watching how many politicians are cutting funds to education! For a good rolemodel on education, I would go to Finnland. They seem to produce the best results on students as a whole lately.

In the end I think James you might come up with some good ideas on how to change the ideals that our ancestories have been talking about all along. Such ideals that really cared about the future of the planet to have a chance for our children to live it. Because if we don't then it will surely look like a lost cause that everyone seems to accept already and that is unfair for the future children who had nothing to do with the problems we created.

You need a partner that is as enthusiastic to write such a book with you. One thing I realize is that you have great ideas and even start them, but never fully complete the project for some reason. I think your mind shifts interests at times because there are so many wonderful projects to do. I have been guilty of such actions myself.

The idea for such a book is good if it really can effect peoples minds to see the importance of this change.

Now I know Al Gore is under alot of controvery for his "Inconvenient Truth" novel and documentary over here in the states, but he is embraced as a nobel prize winner wholeheartingly in Europe. His documentary really open the eyes of many companies to try to do something about our CO2 emissions that go in the air.

What I am trying to get to is that the book has to effect people in the deepest ways to revolutionize a way to change governments for a better future like Al Gore and the scientists that worked with him did.

Can it be done? Most will say no, yet we can't help to think of the possibilities if we can. I would go for it and sacrifice the hours each day to completing such a project.

Well, I guess my point is that I feel it's totally wrong to point the Native American Indians as being the source of this kind of wisdom or even unique to it in any way.

I beleive that thre many Americans who are totally against the wasteful practices that our industrial society has come to, not only accept, but to even force upon us!

We are forced into living lifestyle that we don't necessarily want to live.

I tried living a very back-to-basics life style at one point in my life. I found it to just not be compatible with the rest of society.

Besides if we're going to make a difference on a global scale it's not going to happen because individuals are chosing to be ecologically minded in their own private lives. It's going to need to be a major politically-motivated change for all of humanity.

We alread have individual ecologists living all over the place. That's not helping. That's no different than the water droplets from rainstorms trying to change the saline content of the ocean.

It rains on the ocean all the time, but the saline content remains unaffected. If the goal is to change the ocean of humanity into freshwater then only a political change can do that.

Individual raindrops of individual ecologists just isn't going to affect the overall ocean of humanity.

It's needs to be a politically-motivated change.

Yes a political party needs to step up to enforce laws to make it better for our future generations.

One example is in Germany I had to and wanted to recycle trash. I had 5 different trash cans each for a certain waste. If I didn't do this and was caught (in which they check) I would be fined 120 Euro dollars the first time. The second time a higher penalty would occur.

So everyone has to recycle trash in Germany as it is a law now.

Here in the states I am the only building where I make everyone living in it recycle trash on the whole block or blocks for that matter! Recycling is not required here. It is a choice if one wants to recycle or not. Those who do want to recycle has to call the trash disposal company to get certain trash cans. Maybe that is the reason why they don't do it. It requires to much effort to ask for certain trash cans for seperation of waste products. Maybe the fact that they have to seperate trash is to much work! Talking about being lazy.

So the rest on the block looks at us like we are crazy for doing this instead of embracing the idea. Now why is that? Maybe because the mentality is that it is a wasted effort, or maybe it is a lack of education, or maybe because many believe that the earth isn't in dire need of preservation or in emergency status yet.


This is only one example I give you thus far. There are many more things that Europe has stepped up on concerning environmental practices. So Europe as a whole has people voting in represenatives that will actually create laws to make sure that the people will do something to help the environment stay clean.

I do not doubt there are Americans who are trying hard to find ways to perserve the planet, but they don't have any governmental powers or influence to make such a change yet. Trust me many countries are dissappointed because of that.

The problem in America is people don't research, study, or get proper education in understanding how the government works. They just vote for the most popular person at the moment. They just take the word of a campaign speech without looking at the background of the campaigner. And you would be surprised how many don't even know the basics of how the government as a whole functions.

So you have people voting for popularity and not for things that people want. Then you have half of the country that has different ideals then the ohter half. So it always winds out to be a stalemate. I do hope for the sake of this country things will change and go a bit faster in making rational decisions for the people to live a better life. It looks very grim, but as Obama says there is hope.

The problem is that I believe Congress is bought by lobbyists representing mega-corporations who are only interested in making as much money as possible. This needs to be changed!

Native Americans are not responsible for the waste, but their lifestyle has shown how we as a people should respect mother Earth for thousands of years. And through the years they have shown their wisdom of how they see the world and how it should be lived in many ways without getting involved directly with the Americans. You have to remember they don't have much to say in government at all and when they do say something it is often put aside as a not so dire need. In order for their voices to be heard they would have to accept the American way of life in order to be heard in politics. Many chose not to for obvious reasons, yet some younger generations are now Americanized that they might enter politics because they believe the American way of life is fun, popular, and enjoyable, but it will unfortunately be of no avail for they don't bring the wisdom their ancestory has brought forth with them. Now I understand that many find that "native american wisdom" is not important to even consider in today's society. I beg the differ, for if they study it, they will realize that much of what they say can make a difference to our society and planet. I am not saying we have to take word by word, but we should at least keep an open mind and listen.

Nevertheles it is a problem and as we look of how other countries around the world increase on the CO2 emissions and pollution in general we also watch how we will have less to live off when it happens bringing in starvation, poverty, and illnesses. It is too bad, yet maybe the day when we breathe such dirty air effecting our overall health we will understand that we must change our mindset, lifestyle, and idealogies to give a future for our children. It is too bad that we wait until things get bad before we realize we need to impose laws to ensure a clean planet.

Europe will not be enough. It will take the world governments to work together on this issue and actually create laws that makes the people do it.

Well in the end what I wanted to say on this thread is that if you are a Earth spiritualist and have a mediterrenean mythology believer bugging you with nonsense such as calling you a "devil worshipper" or claiming you are unethical then read the first paragraph I have written and understand the true history of who really is a nonsense in the end.

Earth-Spirituality is respecting mother Earth. There isn't a more dire time today then to really go out and practice this and educate as many people as possible the importance of trying to save mankind for nature can take care of itself without us no matter how much we destroy it. It is about saving our species of existence in the end.

The wisdom of earth-spirituality, if it be Native Americans, Druidism, Wicca, Paganism, eccletric, solitary, Dianic, or traditional, we must go forth and show the importance of keeping mother Earth clean and happy. For if nature is happy we are happy. We are part of nature.

Have fun and good luck.

Well, from my point of view this is a major problem with 'politics'.

So many people view politics as nothing more than a legislation machine that can only accomplish things by making laws and enforcing them.

I think this is a major view in and of itself that needs to be addressed and changed.

World leaders need to learn how to start leading via inspirtation and motivation techniques, not not merely by creating legislation that needs to be enforced.

Legislation can be good formal support for the overall goals. But the overall goals can never be implemented via legislation alone.

What we need are inspirtation leaders. That what religious and spiritual leaders were supposed to be about. But religions have deteriorted into nothing more than bigoged finger-pointing fascism that often reject the material world as being the realm of a demon anyway.

Politics need to become more 'spiritual' in the sense of 'human spirit', not representing or even implying any divine deity, but certainly embracing the obviouse fact that humanity must recognize our symbiosis with nature if we are to survive.

Dry politics that tries to solve things through mere legislation alone will never work. We need 'spriritual' politicaly leaders in the sense of inspiring the 'spirit' of humanity. Not in the sense of pushing bigoted religous dogmas that demand we worship any particular deity or ancient superstitious.

But we do need inspirational political leaders.

I think Obama want to do the right things, but I personally feel that he's missing the opporunity to truly be an inspirational leader. He's going to become increasingly defensive concerning the things that he's attempting to do, and becoming defensive is the last thing an inspirational leader needs to do.

And inspirational leader needs to inspire, not defend. Even if that defense is well-warranted. Sometimes I feel like writing Barrack a personal letter, but I'm not sure exactly what I'd say.

I'd almost need to write him that book, "The Dragon of Mammon" to convey what needs to be said.

Hmmm? Maybe if I wrote it and sent him a copy he would read it? He does read a lot.

The only problem is that by the time I finished writing it he's term will be up.

Although he might run a second term and I could get it in for that?

I don't think we'll have a better shot than Obama to be quite honest about it. He wants to do the right thing!

That's like 99.9999% of it. All he needs is that last 0.0001% of help to actually implement what he'd like to achieve.

He's got the right train. He just needs to get it on the track.

Yes I hope so also. I know that the Republicans and some of the Democrats are not making it easy for him right now concerning some of the ideas he is presenting. We shall see where this will take us.

Well, I read one of Obama's books. He's written several I believe. So I have some idea what he'd like to accomplish. In fact, he seems to be open to suggestions! He knows there are problems and wants to fix them, but confesses that he doesn't have all the answers. No one does. But if we work together we can find them together, and that's his main ideal. Or at least it was when it wrote that particular book.

But here's the problem,...

And let's just take ONE problem for now, say, finance and economy.

So here's the deal,...

The ideal economy would be to have a free enterprise system that is somehow protected from welling up into huge monopolies.

That's the IDEAL.

But what's the CURRENT reality? Well, the current reality is that the economy is already dependent on huge monopolies. And those monopolies are FALLING APART.

So even though Obama would like to work toward a nation based on much smaller businesses, he's stuck with having to stick his finger in the collapsing dike of huge monopolies (like the failing auto companies and banks).

We need to work toward creating a society that doesn't become dependent on such huge monopolies so that we can remove the threat of what might happen should they fail (like they are currenly doing!).


So Obama is in the very nasty position of having to come up with plans to stick fingers in a dike that should have never been built in the first place, whilst simultaneously trying to work at getting people to move toward most self-sufficient economical niches that aren't dependent on these kinds of huge monopolies.

We really need to go back to becoming a bunch of "United" yet individual states (economically speaking), rather than becoming one huge monopolized nation.

And whilst we making that transistion we need to also hold our fingers in the dikes of those monopolies. And drain off some of the water that's behind them first.

This is what I mean when I say that we need to get out of the 'stomach' of the Dragon of Mammon before we can even begin to face it head-on.

Most of the complaints aimed at Obama have to do with how he's dealing with the stomach of the Dragon. But the people who are making those complaints have absolutely no intention of ever leaving the stomach of the Dragon of Mammon. Thus just want to feed the dragon and keep it healthy.

Obama just wants to pacify the Dragon of Mammon long enough to get outside of it and crush its head in.

So we all need to understand the bigger picture. And Obama needs to communicate this bigger picture better. In fact, he needs to have better plan of how to actually accomplish it.

From having read his book it sounds to me like he's hoping to get other people on board to help to 'create' this plan. But he really needs to have some kind of solid plan in mind before he can do that.

And that's where I think I can help. Not by creating the plan, but by helping him to get those other people "Americans" to create this plan and get it on the political TABLE.

Where we need to go financially is obvious. LESS dependence on monopolies.

Precisely how we get there in the details is a whole different question. I certainly have suggestions, but clearly the details would need to be worked out by the American PEOPLE.

We know,... "We the People".

But what Obama needs to get out there is the main framework.

I know he wants to do this. He said so in his book.

But when I listen to his speaches he seems to be getting so side-tracked and overhelmed by the indigestion of the Dragon's stomach, that he may never be able to get outside the dragon to even meet it even begin to meet it face on.

I think if he can get outside the Dragon he'll whip its butt.

The question now is whether he'll ever get outside of the Dragon in the first place.

http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-576

Indian Warfare

Warfare affected the lives of Georgia's Indians in many significant ways. All Indian men considered themselves warriors and trained to use the bow and warclub. Valor in battle, demonstrated through the killing of enemies, was a primary means of social advancement as recently as the nineteenth century. Warfare also became a prominent theme in the Indians' belief systems and greatly affected the development and organization of their societies.

Significant warfare first began to develop among Georgia Indians in the Mississippian Period (A.D. 800-1600), a time when relatively large societies called chiefdoms evolved throughout southeastern North America. During this period defensive fortifications were first built around some towns.
Town Creek Palisade
These included log palisades that completely encircled large towns such as the one at the Etowah Mounds in north Georgia. Palisades were often plastered with clay to keep them from being ignited by burning arrows. Sometimes they incorporated defensive towers (bastions) that allowed archers to shoot at enemies who got close to the wall. Ditches similar to moats were also dug around some palisades and were part of the fortifications of both the Etowah site and the Ocmulgee site at Macon.

Weapons

Bows and arrows were widely used in Indian warfare beginning in the Late Woodland or Early Mississippian Period.
Natchez Indian Warrior
Warriors used a thick D-shaped simple bow made from hickory, ash, or black locust that was fifty to sixty inches in length and had a pull weight of about fifty pounds. These bows could send arrows long distances and were typically used to shoot at enemy villages or units of warriors at a distance.

War clubs also came into significant use during the Mississippian Period. They were carved from a hardwood such as hickory and were usually about one-and-a-half to two feet long, although some may have reached three feet in length. There were several types, the most common form being the atassa, which was actually a wooden sword shaped like a pirate's cutlass.
Indian War Clubs
Other common types were the globe-headed club, which had a three-inch spherical knob at the end of a slightly curved handle, and the tomahawk, a stone axe head attached to a wooden handle.

War clubs were the preferred combat weapon because Indian warriors could raise their social status by killing enemies in single combat. They were widely depicted in Mississippian Period art in association with images and symbols of warfare. In historic Creek and Cherokee myths they were associated with the Lightning or Thunder deity, sometimes in the form of a falcon.

Chiefs and warriors possessed ceremonial forms of war clubs that incorporated symbols of the Sun and Thunder deities and served
Indian War Clubs
as markers of their ceremonial status. These were made entirely from stone that had been chipped or ground into the desired shape, or alternatively, were tomahawks that had copper heads affixed to wooden handles.

Mississippian Period Warfare

Warriors honed their archery and war club skills through lifelong training. According to early historical accounts, they demonstrated impressive skill in using war clubs and were favorably compared to European fencing masters. The warriors also played a lacrosse-type sport called "the ball game" in which they employed war club–sized ball sticks reminiscent of combat with war clubs.

The most common type of warfare was a raid carried out by a small group of men; a raiding party would surreptitiously enter an enemy chiefdom's territory to attack unsuspecting households or ambush people. Warriors typically used war clubs in these raids. Trophies from the victims, such as scalps, were taken to prove their success in the encounter. In many Indian cultures the killing of one's kinsman by an enemy necessitated reprisal. This could result in long-term, chronic raiding between enemy chiefdoms as each side in turn sought revenge on the other.

Historical accounts from the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries also describe a few large-scale battles between the armies of enemy chiefdoms. Each army consisted of a few hundred men arranged in a formation, with the chief acting as overall commander. They would shoot their arrows at one another until the supply was expended; then they would engage in hand-to-hand combat with war clubs.

Historic Period Warfare

Warfare changed dramatically during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries as a result of European encroachment. Iron hatchets were extensively introduced in the early eighteenth century and began to replace war clubs. By the latter part of this century metal tomahawks were being made specifically for the Indian trade. Firearms had also been introduced.

Periodic raiding and some pitched battles continued between the Creek and Cherokee Indians in the Historic Period. By the late eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, both the Creeks and Cherokees faced increased military threats from white settlers who were able to raise large civilian militias equipped with firearms to reinforce military troops.
Creek Indians
The Indians were forced to cope with highly organized raids and battles with whites who had superior troops and equipment. The Indians adopted new military tactics, including larger armies to fight some pitched battles and guerrilla-style maneuvers. In some cases Indian communities erected forts styled after those of the whites. Ultimately, however, the Indians were unable to win against the superior numbers of well-armed American forces and were forcibly exiled to Oklahoma in the early nineteenth century.