thank you mrsteddy...i agree with u 100%

fanta is ok trooper, he has his beliefs, theyre right for him, as far as
putting yourself on the line for people, its what we do, and we arent
supposed to discriminate who we are willing to fight for.

been there done that, and hey by the way, there are worse people on here
by far, so hows about going easy there bro.

doc

and whats with all the support the troop stuff anyway, hey glad you do,
but trust me, wouldnt bother me a bit if you didnt, i would still do my
freakin job.

ur right man..sometimes i get really ticked off i these ppl..just last
week in topeka, ks i saw 100's of ppl protesting a fallen brother...it
made me sick to my stomach to see some of the signs they had...but i
know what you mean man

been there too and it is a sad mark on our humanity, but show me a
country who supports the freedom of speech of all kinds, and i'll show
you a country worth my defending.


scouts out

doc

Veterans Against Iraq War is a coalition of American veterans who
support our troops but oppose war with Iraq or any other nation that
does not pose a clear and present danger to our people and nation.

Until and unless the current U.S. Administration provides evidence which
clearly demonstrates that Iraq or any other nation poses a clear, direct
and immediate danger to our country, we oppose all of this
Administration's pre-emptive and unilateral military activities in Iraq.
Furthermore, we cannot support any war that is initiated without a
formal Declaration of War by Congress, as our Constitution requires.

Although we detested the dictatorial policies of Saddam Hussein and
sympathized with the tragic plight of the Iraqi people, we opposed
unilateral and pre-emptive U.S. military intervention on the grounds
that it established a dangerous precedent in the conduct of
international affairs, that it could easily lead to an increase of
violent regional instability and the spread of much wider conflicts,
that it places needless and unacceptable financial burdens on the
American people, that it diverts us from addressing critical domestic
priorities, and that it distracts us from our goals of tracking down and
destroying international terrorists and their lairs.

Furthermore, we do not believe that the American military can or should
be used as the police force of the world by any administration,
Republican or Democrat. Consequently, we believe that the lives and well
being of our nation's soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines should not
be squandered or sacrificed for causes other than in the direct defense
of our people and nation.

Finally, we believe that a doctrine of pre-emptive and unilateral U.S.
military attack on Iraq or any other nation is illegal, unnecessary,
counter-productive and presents a truly dire and distressing threat to
our vital international interests and basic national security. As
military veterans, we have a unique understanding of war and know the
many hidden truths that lie behind war's easy theories and promises, as
well as behind the tragic consequences that even, "victory" brings. We
therefore call on all like-minded veterans and family members to endorse
this statement and support us in our efforts to help avert, mitigate or
stop a national tragedy and an international calamity.


We ask that you support our troops, by demanding that they be brought
home from Iraq immediately. We ask that you support our nation's vital
interests, by demanding that our troops should never be placed in harm's
way except to meet and defeat any direct and immediate threat to our
people.


I will and can kill this propaganda!!!!!

my favorite oxymoron --- military intelligence

Fanta from you own words.

How dare they use the fact that our troops are in harms way for their
political agenda.

It works both ways man.

Fresh from two tours each in Iraq, decorated former Marines Sean O'Neill
and Mike Ergo give antiwar speeches at Northern California high schools.

Although their numbers are still small compared with the draft-fueled
Vietnam veterans' movement four decades ago, California's Iraq veterans
are gaining a voice in opposition to America's continued military
presence in Iraq. Recent antiwar demonstrations in Los Angeles, San
Francisco and other cities have seen the first sizable contingents of
veterans from the conflict.

The protesters even include some soldiers — like Cantu, of Los Angeles —
who are still on active duty. "I've taken a public antiwar stance,"
Cantu, 29, recently e-mailed from Baghdad, where he serves in
intelligence with the 1st Cavalry Division, "but I didn't shirk my
responsibilities."

O'Neill, a 24-year-old Marine veteran from Fremont, said he likes to
take the antiwar message to conservative areas of the state "to add
legitimacy and to show that it is not just crazed leftists who are
against the war."

I could pull up hundreds of these!!!!!

some of you are actually combat vets and thats good if you are talking
about the effect of war.

but you know its not a unilateral force in iraq brother, coalition and
all suggest it is at least bilateral and at most multilateral.

it isnt an illegal war, that fact has been established when congress
authorized the war.

as far as a threat, sadaam was and would have continued to be, so screw
him glad he's gone. now just need to finish up and then move on to the
bigger and better catches of the day.

the day of the victim is over, its a new dawning in military mentality,
destroy the will to kill americans by whatever force is neccessary, or
dont and pray like hell its a long peaceful night.

i can put hundreds up, that say something to contradict your as well,
probably more so. the biggest gripe is the time away from family, but
most people see this as being weak minded so they try to disguise their
angst in other forms, like saying 'oh this war is terrible'

those are the weak minded ones to me, i would have more respect for them
if they were just honest and said whats really on their minds.

and yes i do speak on this from first hand experiences.

In fact at least 700 from california alone..

This is my last ad, Promise!!!

With an estimated 700 active members nationwide, the organization has a
simple platform: the immediate withdrawal of all troops, improved
treatment for soldiers upon their return and a national contribution to
the reconstruction of postwar Iraq.

Sgt. Jabbar Magruder, 24, served in Iraq in 2005 and is still a member
of the California National Guard while he attends Cal State Northridge
as a pre-med major.

In his civilian mode, he serves as secretary of the Los Angeles chapter
of Iraq Veterans Against the War, attends antiwar demonstrations and
meets with students on college campuses. He recently traveled to Hawaii
to speak to potential military recruits about the Iraq war and was one
of nearly 1,000 regular military, National Guard and Reserve members who
signed an Appeal for Redress that was delivered to Congress in January.

The three-sentence appeal reads: "As a patriotic American proud to serve
the nation in uniform, I respectfully urge my political leaders in
Congress to support the prompt withdrawal of all American military
forces and bases in Iraq. Staying in Iraq will not work and is not worth
the price. It is time for U.S. troops to come home."

just goes to show that out of the nearly one million man/woman strong
military that we have, and organizations like the one you mentioned with
its 700 member strong base, that there is a small percentage that doesnt
agree with the war.

the fact that they did mention a national contribution to the
reconstruction of i raq is interesting, how do they suggest that we pull
that off without a presence there.

as a patriotic american, i urge my congressional leaders to keep us
there in iraq until we have accomplished all that we can. i think that
there is more to do, and we are doing it. to pull us out now would be
irresponsible and immoral. further more i would urge those same
congressional leaders to stop using the iraq war as a political football
suiting their own personal gain and accomplishing nothing but
underminding the current administrations ability to execute the needed
stategies to assure overwhelming victory against the enemies of this
great country.

doc

Sorry Doc, but I know I read where you said you were against showing
dead soldiers caskets, and this one did it, and even showed one open. It
just struck me as being hypocritical. Thats all.....Esp when any other
time the government would lash out about it....

i got to tell you that i in know way do agree with showing caskets or
anything else remotely related.

also admittedly i dint watch the video, ive seen to many memorials and
funerals in person over the last year so wasnt going to watch one on the
net. couldnt take it. im weak like that i guess.

and i do believe in privacy of the greeving family, and cant stand the
hypocrascy of it all, if the family video'd then it is their choice of
how they wish to greive or remember their loved one, and for that i say
it is their personal decision and who the hell am i to say dont do it.

It wasnt the same funeral, in no way, and I doubt it was made by a 15
year old, because of this fact. Unless the government participated by
giving her the videos or access to them..

Fanta you lied again: You said that was your last Post!!!

Why do people feel the need to b*tch & moan their political views on
everyone elses thread?

Rose starts her own thread to show something that she thought was worth
while and Fanta comes rambling in with his (excuse me for stealing your
term) Propaganda!!!

As Recon eluded to, At least pass the Bong to the left so we can all
ramble on the same level as you Fanta

LMAO@sluggo
OK, I leave, I think I accomplished what I wanted to anyway

s'cuse me while I break bricks with my head...

What a bunch of crap!!

That anyone can justify Iraq, baffles me..

That anyone can support George Bush, amazes me.

That some of you try to change history..Sickens me!!

Do you, Doc, and all the other rabid Bush supporters, think that the
WHOLE world is stupid??????????