Topic: Tase Early, Tase Often
warmachine's photo
Sun 07/12/09 08:05 PM
Tase Early, Tase Often - Column
The shocking truth about speeding busts: sometimes a ticket is not the worst part.

BY PATRICK BEDARD
May 2008



The camera looks forward through the windshield of a police car in Austin, Texas, recording a traffic bust. We see the back of Cpl. Thomas O’Connor as he strides forward on the driver side of the sedan he just stopped on South Mopac Expressway. O’Connor speaks hurriedly. He sounds angry as he identifies himself by name and department and finishes the sentence with a demand for a driver’s license and proof of insurance. Five seconds have elapsed since he left the patrol car.

In the next nine seconds he tells the driver, Eugene Snelling, 32, that he was stopped for 70 in a 65 zone and for having no license plate on the rear of his car. In the next five seconds, O’Connor demands “driver’s license and proof of insurance” two more times.

“Whoa, whoa, whoa,” the driver replies. His mother is in the car—he’s driving her to Thanksgiving dinner—and she’s talking, too.

The policeman demands “driver’s license and proof of insurance or get out of the vehicle.” Twenty-four seconds have now elapsed.

The driver’s mother nags her son from the passenger seat. At 29 seconds, the policeman yanks open the driver’s door and orders, “Step out of the vehicle.” As the driver fumbles with his seatbelt, the policeman draws a TASER from his belt holster. We’re 33 seconds into the bust now, and the mother is still telling her son what to do. At 41 seconds, the driver’s feet touch the pavement, and he stands up. The policeman shoves the door shut, hitting the driver in the shoulder and knocking him off balance. That’s followed by a hard push with an order to “get to the back of the vehicle.”

“I have no idea why—” Snelling begins, but the officer shouts him down: “Get to the back of the vehicle, put your hands on the vehicle.” The driver obviously doesn’t understand why he’s being treated so roughly when he’s said nothing provocative. He hesitates, looks at the policeman in disbelief, and the policeman fires his weapon at him. Zero to TASER: 48 seconds from the time the officer stepped out of his patrol car.

Another camera, this time in Utah. We follow as an SUV eases onto the shoulder. Trooper John Gardner walks forward on the driver side. His greeting is matter-of-fact. The driver, in a polite voice, asks how fast he was going, but the officer ignores the question and asks firmly for his license and registration.

“No, I’m serious, I’m just wondering,” says Jared Massey, 28. We can’t hear the conversation that follows, but 35 seconds after the officer first appeared at the window, we hear him ask, “How fast do you think you were going?” There’s a discussion about passing a sign. No raised voices. It all sounds like a well-modulated back-and-forth. After 73 seconds at the driver’s door, the officer returns to his cruiser to write a ticket.

When he returns to the SUV, we hear Massey say, “You’re giving me a ticket, but you won’t tell me why.” The driver wants to go back with the trooper to see where the 40-mph sign is.

“You’re gonna sign this first.” Massey refuses.

“Okay, hop outta the car.” Nineteen seconds have elapsed since Trooper Gardner reappeared with the ticket. The driver complies quickly and walks back in the direction from which he had driven, pointing toward something. He’s not aggressive toward the trooper, is not even facing him but, rather, looks down the road pointing. The officer draws his TASER, points it at Massey, and says, “Turn around and put your hands behind your back.”

The driver recoils. “What’s wrong with you?” he asks. He starts to walk the other way. Gardner fires at the driver’s back.

Zero to TASER: 32 seconds after the Trooper’s return.

Tom Smith, co-founder and chairman of the board at TASER International, says 4000 law-enforcement agencies now equip all patrol officers with a TASER electronic control device, which he likens to a Star Trek phaser. “It fires out two probes, like jumper cables,” he says. “They attach to an individual by wires up to 35 feet away. It sends an electrical signal into the body.” The result is “an immediate loss of the person’s neuromuscular control.”

Statistics tossed about by TASER supporters proclaim it to be the most effective close-range neutralizer since Davy Crockett brought down a bear using only his grin: “Officer injuries down 80 percent; suspect injuries down 67 percent; use of lethal force down by 78 percent,” they say. Just one little problem. Law enforcement hasn’t agreed on where TASER use is appropriate, where it should be placed on the use-of-force continuum.

This is cop talk for how much force to use in a given situation. Every department has a standard, but there’s no standard standard across the country. One approach divides officer response into six levels, with deadly force being Level Six. On this scale, pepper spray, baton blows, and the TASER are Level Four, appropriate when the suspect is “violent or threatening.” Some California agencies put the TASER at Level Five. Sheriff’s officers in Orange County, Florida, use it against “passive resistance” (Level Three).

In the videos described here, the drivers weren’t resisting—at worst, they were less than instant in their compliance. That calls for Level Four force? Following the Austin incident, the department’s Internal Affairs office saw no problem, but then acting Chief Cathy Ellison ordered Officer O’Connor suspended for three days. In Utah, “We have found Trooper Gardner’s actions were lawful and reasonable,” said Highway Patrol Superintendent Lance Davenport.
To your list of highway hazards, better add itchy TASER fingers.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/c_d_staff/patrick_bedard/tase_early_tase_often_column

MirrorMirror's photo
Sun 07/12/09 08:12 PM

Tase Early, Tase Often - Column
The shocking truth about speeding busts: sometimes a ticket is not the worst part.

BY PATRICK BEDARD
May 2008



The camera looks forward through the windshield of a police car in Austin, Texas, recording a traffic bust. We see the back of Cpl. Thomas O’Connor as he strides forward on the driver side of the sedan he just stopped on South Mopac Expressway. O’Connor speaks hurriedly. He sounds angry as he identifies himself by name and department and finishes the sentence with a demand for a driver’s license and proof of insurance. Five seconds have elapsed since he left the patrol car.

In the next nine seconds he tells the driver, Eugene Snelling, 32, that he was stopped for 70 in a 65 zone and for having no license plate on the rear of his car. In the next five seconds, O’Connor demands “driver’s license and proof of insurance” two more times.

“Whoa, whoa, whoa,” the driver replies. His mother is in the car—he’s driving her to Thanksgiving dinner—and she’s talking, too.

The policeman demands “driver’s license and proof of insurance or get out of the vehicle.” Twenty-four seconds have now elapsed.

The driver’s mother nags her son from the passenger seat. At 29 seconds, the policeman yanks open the driver’s door and orders, “Step out of the vehicle.” As the driver fumbles with his seatbelt, the policeman draws a TASER from his belt holster. We’re 33 seconds into the bust now, and the mother is still telling her son what to do. At 41 seconds, the driver’s feet touch the pavement, and he stands up. The policeman shoves the door shut, hitting the driver in the shoulder and knocking him off balance. That’s followed by a hard push with an order to “get to the back of the vehicle.”

“I have no idea why—” Snelling begins, but the officer shouts him down: “Get to the back of the vehicle, put your hands on the vehicle.” The driver obviously doesn’t understand why he’s being treated so roughly when he’s said nothing provocative. He hesitates, looks at the policeman in disbelief, and the policeman fires his weapon at him. Zero to TASER: 48 seconds from the time the officer stepped out of his patrol car.

Another camera, this time in Utah. We follow as an SUV eases onto the shoulder. Trooper John Gardner walks forward on the driver side. His greeting is matter-of-fact. The driver, in a polite voice, asks how fast he was going, but the officer ignores the question and asks firmly for his license and registration.

“No, I’m serious, I’m just wondering,” says Jared Massey, 28. We can’t hear the conversation that follows, but 35 seconds after the officer first appeared at the window, we hear him ask, “How fast do you think you were going?” There’s a discussion about passing a sign. No raised voices. It all sounds like a well-modulated back-and-forth. After 73 seconds at the driver’s door, the officer returns to his cruiser to write a ticket.

When he returns to the SUV, we hear Massey say, “You’re giving me a ticket, but you won’t tell me why.” The driver wants to go back with the trooper to see where the 40-mph sign is.

“You’re gonna sign this first.” Massey refuses.

“Okay, hop outta the car.” Nineteen seconds have elapsed since Trooper Gardner reappeared with the ticket. The driver complies quickly and walks back in the direction from which he had driven, pointing toward something. He’s not aggressive toward the trooper, is not even facing him but, rather, looks down the road pointing. The officer draws his TASER, points it at Massey, and says, “Turn around and put your hands behind your back.”

The driver recoils. “What’s wrong with you?” he asks. He starts to walk the other way. Gardner fires at the driver’s back.

Zero to TASER: 32 seconds after the Trooper’s return.

Tom Smith, co-founder and chairman of the board at TASER International, says 4000 law-enforcement agencies now equip all patrol officers with a TASER electronic control device, which he likens to a Star Trek phaser. “It fires out two probes, like jumper cables,” he says. “They attach to an individual by wires up to 35 feet away. It sends an electrical signal into the body.” The result is “an immediate loss of the person’s neuromuscular control.”

Statistics tossed about by TASER supporters proclaim it to be the most effective close-range neutralizer since Davy Crockett brought down a bear using only his grin: “Officer injuries down 80 percent; suspect injuries down 67 percent; use of lethal force down by 78 percent,” they say. Just one little problem. Law enforcement hasn’t agreed on where TASER use is appropriate, where it should be placed on the use-of-force continuum.

This is cop talk for how much force to use in a given situation. Every department has a standard, but there’s no standard standard across the country. One approach divides officer response into six levels, with deadly force being Level Six. On this scale, pepper spray, baton blows, and the TASER are Level Four, appropriate when the suspect is “violent or threatening.” Some California agencies put the TASER at Level Five. Sheriff’s officers in Orange County, Florida, use it against “passive resistance” (Level Three).

In the videos described here, the drivers weren’t resisting—at worst, they were less than instant in their compliance. That calls for Level Four force? Following the Austin incident, the department’s Internal Affairs office saw no problem, but then acting Chief Cathy Ellison ordered Officer O’Connor suspended for three days. In Utah, “We have found Trooper Gardner’s actions were lawful and reasonable,” said Highway Patrol Superintendent Lance Davenport.
To your list of highway hazards, better add itchy TASER fingers.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/c_d_staff/patrick_bedard/tase_early_tase_often_column



:smile: Cops are worse than criminals nowadays:smile: You can find something on the news everyday about how these goverment agents are brutalizing american citizens.:smile: This isnt a free country anymore.:smile:

cabot's photo
Sun 07/12/09 08:43 PM
Cops are not worse than criminals. Believe me. I was a cop for over 8 years and do not judge them until you walk a day in their shoes. Try living without them.


warmachine's photo
Sun 07/12/09 08:58 PM
There's good and bad, but you have to remember your history. Tyranny always shows up at your door in a uniform.

Things just aren't the same as they used to be. I'm not that old, but I can remember cops that used to patrol my neighborhood as a kid, they knew all the kids and used to stop to talk to us about things like how we were doing in school. I just don't see that now, instead I see things changing from "Cops", who served the interests of the communities they served, to "Law Enforcement", who serve as enforcers and revenue generators for the state.

I will leave this with, just when I start to think they're all bad, I end up meeting one who is out there doing the right thing.

cabot's photo
Sun 07/12/09 09:06 PM
Kids back then didn't shoot cops or shoot up their schools either. Times are different now. Being a cop is the most stressful job there is, you are under a microscope 24/7. Most of them are good, some are not. Just like teachers, doctors, nurses etc..jmo

MirrorMirror's photo
Sun 07/12/09 09:30 PM

There's good and bad, but you have to remember your history. Tyranny always shows up at your door in a uniform.

Things just aren't the same as they used to be. I'm not that old, but I can remember cops that used to patrol my neighborhood as a kid, they knew all the kids and used to stop to talk to us about things like how we were doing in school. I just don't see that now, instead I see things changing from "Cops", who served the interests of the communities they served, to "Law Enforcement", who serve as enforcers and revenue generators for the state.

I will leave this with, just when I start to think they're all bad, I end up meeting one who is out there doing the right thing.
drinker You are right and thanks for reminding me Warmachinedrinker

Ladylid2012's photo
Sun 07/12/09 09:33 PM
A few weeks ago we had a local guy die from being tazed...
turns out he had some health issues and it killed him.
Some body is about to own the Utah State Troopers indifferent

cabot's photo
Sun 07/12/09 10:06 PM
The issue is the Tazers. They are not a cure all weapon. Electric shock can kill. Get rid of the Tazers. I was tazed in training, and survived, but like I told by bosses, I am, or at that time was a, young fit person. I did not want to use Tazers, Pepper spray or Mace. But try tackling a big guy strung out on Crack, Meth etc...it ain't easy. Look at both sides people. It's not the cops, it the damn Tazer, take them away until they are proven to work.

Drivinmenutz's photo
Mon 07/13/09 03:40 AM
Got a good friend who got beat up by four cops. He wasn't being aggressive at all.

Also know a tiny girl who got roughed up by cops. She was a bartender, she refused to go back into the bar until the tear gas they fired in cleared out. She was immediately man-handled by three cops.

My best friend is a pharmacuetical doctor. He was standing on the sidewalk waiting for his uncle to pick him up when four under-cover cops stepped our of an unmarked cruiser. Because my friend had been there for 15 minutes they thought he looked suspicious. They searched him confiscating a gerber multitool knife, you know, the ones that are basically a cross between a set of pliers and a swiss army knife? They did a background check, found out he was just a pharmacy student without even a speeding ticket on record and let him go. When they were leaving he asked if he could have his gerber back. The response, as they got back into their cruiser was "no, you can't have you weapon back" and they drove off.

Cops aren't all bad. Some are still honorable people trying to keep the streets safer. But many are losing their way. This is where you and I come in. If they steal from you like my pharmacist friend, or rough you up without cause, it is important to fight back by getting badge numbers and lawyers. Before they take anything from you make them sign a hand receipt for the item, otherwise you will never get it back.

Also know a guy who had an antique pistol confiscated in Massachusetts by an off-duty cop, because he "did not have it registered with the state of Mass" This was at a shooting range, and the guy was from maine. Valuable weapon. Poor guy has not seen it since, nor has he been charged. He contacted the state to get it back, and the state told him they lost it.

Honestly this guy needs to sue the state, not only for the cost of his weapon, plus court fees, but also harassment, and violation of his second amendment rights.

Ladylid2012's photo
Mon 07/13/09 03:44 AM
Yeah, I have seen cops do some pretty raunchy stuff too.
They are just like a gang, they stick together, do what they have to. My dad was a cop in Philadelphia... he had some attitude.

Sojourning_Soul's photo
Mon 07/13/09 04:34 AM
The worst part is the general public is still under the opinion that "if you can't trust a cop, who do you trust?". When it comes down to who to believe in court or most any situation, a cop will always be trusted first. This belief is as much a tool to them as a taser, allowing them to often manufacture a case against you when there is none. Video cameras have caused them grief many times in court cases, and not just the ones in their cruisers.

I'm sick of hearing "walk a mile in their shoes..."! They are armed, trained, computer equiped, networked for rapid response, paid, and not drafted into this position. It is not the public who is giving them a bad rap!

They have a tough job, YES! It is the "few" who cause the problems for the most part, but less and less is done to hold the line against abuse of power, and the Patriot Act now pretty much gives them a fail safe. We pay huge taxes to provide them with the best tools and armament to do that job. If they can't stand the heat, they need to leave the kitchen! Abuse of power is not acceptable because you wear a uniform!

Ladylid2012's photo
Mon 07/13/09 04:41 AM
yeah, what he said:smile:

adj4u's photo
Mon 07/13/09 05:16 AM

The worst part is the general public is still under the opinion that "if you can't trust a cop, who do you trust?". When it comes down to who to believe in court or most any situation, a cop will always be trusted first. This belief is as much a tool to them as a taser, allowing them to often manufacture a case against you when there is none. Video cameras have caused them grief many times in court cases, and not just the ones in their cruisers.

I'm sick of hearing "walk a mile in their shoes..."! They are armed, trained, computer equiped, networked for rapid response, paid, and not drafted into this position. It is not the public who is giving them a bad rap!

They have a tough job, YES! It is the "few" who cause the problems for the most part, but less and less is done to hold the line against abuse of power, and the Patriot Act now pretty much gives them a fail safe. We pay huge taxes to provide them with the best tools and armament to do that job. If they can't stand the heat, they need to leave the kitchen! Abuse of power is not acceptable because you wear a uniform!



drinker

Ladylid2012's photo
Mon 07/13/09 05:19 AM
I've never had it done to me, I have seen it done to others...
holy ouchfrown

krupa's photo
Mon 07/13/09 07:04 AM
I know plenty of law enforcement. Out here at least, they are genuinely good people. Even back when I was young and getting arrested or having run ins with them..they were cool. (I realize that I haven't met every cop)

However....every last damned one of us knows that if a cop tells me to do a backflip..I got two seconds to fully comply before thier trained in aggression will kick in. (don't matter that I can't do a back flip)

Yes, they are above the law....since when has it ever been different?

Sojourning_Soul's photo
Mon 07/13/09 09:07 AM

I know plenty of law enforcement. Out here at least, they are genuinely good people. Even back when I was young and getting arrested or having run ins with them..they were cool. (I realize that I haven't met every cop)

However....every last damned one of us knows that if a cop tells me to do a backflip..I got two seconds to fully comply before thier trained in aggression will kick in. (don't matter that I can't do a back flip)

Yes, they are above the law....since when has it ever been different?


I have rights which I fought for. Not even a police officer will take them from me without GOOD cause, and even then not without some confrontation! I don't ask for trouble, usually don't get any, but I won't give up my rights to promote a personal power trip for anyone, EVER!

yellowrose10's photo
Mon 07/13/09 09:19 AM


I know plenty of law enforcement. Out here at least, they are genuinely good people. Even back when I was young and getting arrested or having run ins with them..they were cool. (I realize that I haven't met every cop)

However....every last damned one of us knows that if a cop tells me to do a backflip..I got two seconds to fully comply before thier trained in aggression will kick in. (don't matter that I can't do a back flip)

Yes, they are above the law....since when has it ever been different?


I have rights which I fought for. Not even a police officer will take them from me without GOOD cause, and even then not without some confrontation! I don't ask for trouble, usually don't get any, but I won't give up my rights to promote a personal power trip for anyone, EVER!


you are right...no one should take it away from anyone. But I do know there are good cops that became cops and stayed cops to serve and protect. there are a lot of bad cops that give the good ones a bad rap (just like in every other profession)

IMO and this is just my opinion...the media plays a huge role in this as well as the rappers and their cop killing songs. People rarely see the "good" that cops do because it's not "news worthy"

I do know (and not always) but the cops that do things like this do get called out for it and punished. I have seen it myself. The mayors, city council and police chiefs have gotten it into their heads (more so than in the past) that the heat will come down on THEM if the "bad cops" go unpunished. but of course there are still those that do think they are above the law because no one holds them accountable

no photo
Mon 07/13/09 09:20 AM
The use of technology in place of good police work is becoming the norm.....

"Red-Light Cameras Increase Accidents: 5 Studies That Prove It
January 8th, 2008 Posted in Red-Light Cameras

reports The NMA has been contending that red-light cameras (RLCs) are a detriment to motorist safety for many years."

Yet, RLC's continue to be installed......Is technology encouraging Laziness


EquusDancer's photo
Mon 07/13/09 09:21 AM
I've been curious, with the prevalance of military going into law enforcement, and all of the stuff like PTSD that they aren't getting help for, if it's transfering into their work?

I fully admit, cops deal with serious crap, and it's far worse then what it was. I've been amused and saddened after watching re-runs of Dragnet and Adam-12, just how obvious it is. And yes, I know it's TV, so don't give me that crap.

I've been lucky to have only dealt with the decent guys, but I do think they are far more angry and agressive then is necessary frequently. I have no pity for the meth-head who drops dead after being tazed. Less future work, IMO. But the average person with regards to a ticket, or wanting info before they sign anything doesn't deserve it.

Dad got stopped for a speeding ticket, and was told he was 20 over. The cop went back to his car to fill everything out, but dad walked back since he didn't believe he'd been going that fast and wanted to see it on the radar gun. The cop got pissy and lo and behold, dad only got it for being 7 miles over.

Dragoness's photo
Mon 07/13/09 09:48 AM
I have seen many things done by cops that was wrong from profiling to strip searching in public but I still will not say that they all are bad. The reason the bad ones get away is because we do not have a check and balance in that area that is efficient.