Thank you Jeremy.

I knew you'd post eventually.

Thanks for all the information and sites Bushido... That should give me allot to contemplate and keep me busy for awhile..

If you like humor, and want some good ammo in your discussions with your fiend, Id say start with Thunderf00t.

I don't even get dragged into those endless arguments anymore.

I'd just go with the following.


Creationist: "Evolution is Stupid"

Scientist: "So what do you suggest as an alternative theory?"

Creationist: "The Bible"

Scientist: (after picking himself up off the floor from an exhuasting belly laugh), "I thought you were out to reject things that are stupid?"

~~~

I don't know about you, but for me this turns the conversation onto their agenda, and I personally find that pointing out absurdities in the biblical myth to be far easier than attemtping to educated someone who is totaly closed-minded about evolution.

Their GOAL is to get you to doubt evolution.

I'm not about to allow them to dictate what the goal should be.

I would prefer to change the GOAL of the conversation to show them why the Bible is a farce.

I have no agenda to defend evolution.

They are the ones who are suggesting that evolution is stupid.

So what's their alternative explanation and can they show that it isn't stupid?

I think not.

If they are truly seeking to understand evolution there are more than enough sources for them to become educated.

On the other hand, if they are out to denounce it, then let them offer a better explantion. And that instantly turns the focus onto the Bible which is utterly absurd and can't be defended even by the best clergy in the world. Even the best clergy need to resort to the idea of a Satan who is attempting to hide the truth from our eyes. How stupid can it get?

And they demand ultimate proof of evolution?

Where's their proof that Satan even exists? And the behavior of their God depends entirely on the existence of this Satan.

Talk about stupid?

I agree with you... In saying that...
It's too easy to make fun of the bible.. and that is usually where I go to defuse them if need be... It's just that I want to be able to not necessarily go there and learn other ammunition as to their scientific claims... Fighting false science with real science.... Bushido knew exactly what I was looking for.. I appreciate both your responses though... Thank you my friends...

Well, that is the better way to go for sure.

Especially if you're talking with someone who is genuinely open to actually learning.

What I've come to grips is that most people who argue against evolution aren't the least bit interested in truly understanding it. They are just out to denounce it to get it 'out of the way', for their true agenda.

So I do them a favor and push it to the side and ask them to address their true agenda directly.

But if you think the person who is presenting this is truly open to reason, then your approach is far better! I agree! Go for it!

And GOOD LUCK!

If you succeed in actually educating someone I humbly bow to your sincere efforts and patience with them.

I just got done watching Foundational Falsehood of Creationism and it was very informative, entertaining, and has got me excited about researching more... On to the next one... Thanks again...

>> This is more for people that believe in evolution... I would like to hear all the defenses for such words as to evolution is stupid..

And if evolutionary theory were flawed - would that make biblical creationism 'the truth'?

I feel that if you have doubts about evolutionary theory, that could be a good thing: 'humanity's leading thinkers' have been wrong time and again throughout history. The great thing is that you are interested in learning.

>> If time allows in your day, please watch some or all of the video's and respond..

You may get a better response if you type out some of claims (as I see you do, later), as a lot of people, like me, won't bother going to youtube.

>> I'm trying to learn to battle properly... I am half agnostic half deist... I really can't make a sound judgment on my beliefs yet,

Why bother battling Creationists? Why not just admit you aren't sure and keep learning? If a fundamentalist Christian tries to tell you are wrong or stupid for being interested in science and evolution, you can ignore them, knowing silently that at least you are interested in learning. You can study the sciences underlying evolutionary theory for a lifetime and still have more to learn.

>> all I know is that my beliefs have changed over the years because my search for answers to my questions...



>> Why besides the obvious can this guy claim that fossils can't be dated
...
>> Why can he state that carbon dating and other dating process have no reliable merit dating things as old as it would take to date things that are millions of years old...

I'm guessing Bushido's links covered this, but there are indeed limitations to C14 dating - however, C14 isn't the only isotope that can be used for dating.

>> and show no evolutional process?

And so some people think: And therefore evolution didn't happen??? Its not like every organism gets fossilized.



I'd like to know what other claims the anti-evolutionist youTube presentation gives.



I hope he doesn't say that the laws of thermodynamics contradict the theory of evolution. That one always makes me so sad, for the failure of science education.

That's an extremely good point. Because even if I never heard of evolution and we had no reason to suspect it, I'd still reject the Mediterranean God mythologies based on what I see as their own obvious fallacies.

If I were going to believe in a creator I'd probably go with pantheism anyway. Or maybe even some of the Celtic lore.

I don't think much of a God who allows a demon to wreck havoc with his creation to the point where he has to sacrifice his own son just to try to clean up the mess. Of all the creation myths I've heard that one just doesn't sound like a God that's intelligent enough to create diddly squat.

And that's not meant to be a put down. It's just an honest assessment from a human being on planet earth. Why pretend? Even if it turned out to be true I'd still have to be honest with the deity and confess that I think he's an idiot. Why lie to God? What could possibly be gained from lying to God? From my point of view the Bible is utterly stupid. Again, not meant as a put down. Just my honest assessment.

And it wouldn't appear to be any more intelligent if I never heard of evolution.

Besides, I kind of like the Moon Goddess of the Celts.

At least the folklore makes her appear to be intelligent and genuinely loving.

Surely if we have a creator, he/she/it would be at least nicer than me. That pretty much rules out anything that came out of the Mediterranean mythologies.

Evolution is proven every day. (albiet on a smaller scale than EVOLUTION).

a child evolves from an egg and a sperm to eventually become a man/woman.

Evolution of the body is evidenced right before your eyes.

Actually that's a very poor analogy that isn't even correct.

A fertilized human egg already contains the entire DNA blueprint and instructions for building a human body. We don't just randomly become dogs or horses, or whatever. It's not evolution at all, it's the unfolding of a specific DNA sequence.

To say that this is an analogy for evolution would suggest that evolution was pre-planned and guided by some pre-existing blueprint like a primordial DNA that contained the instructions for everything to follow.

But that's not how evolution works at all.

So this analogy is not only misleading but it's utterly incorrect actually. To make this claim to someone who already doesn't understand evolution would only serve to confuse the picture even further because this isn't even a correct analogy.

They could easily take this analogy to mean that all of evolution is being guided by some primordial DNA (i.e. Intelligent Design).

So this would only support their idea of Intelligent Design. But there is no such primordial DNA that guided evolution. DNA itself evolved from amino acids.

If there is a 'blueprint' for that it lies in the very structure and abundances of the very atoms themselves. In fact, I have often suggested that the blueprint for all that exists is contained in the configuation of the individual atoms and how they can form bonds.

However, that 'blueprint' would be extremely flexible. It would be the equivalent of getting out a box of legos and claiming that they contain the 'blueprint' for anything they can be made into. That's a pretty flexible 'blueprint'.

But, I can prove that creationism is the real deal....

Think of how many idiots there are...ain't no way those morons and the people who bred them could have lived long enough to evolve without divine intervention! Thereby I can legitimately blame God for the stupid people.....lets face it....in theory, evolution should have weeded them out of the gene pool.

Only if their stupidity would cause them to die before reaching breeding age. It doesn't take very much intelligence at all to reach breeding age and have children.

Your welcome. No one can fit in as much info into a video as AronRa. Its crazy how fast that guy can speak lol.

Well now there is an attitude.

I found this interesting - some Creationists addressing some of the worst arguments commonly used by Creationists.

http://creation.com/arguments-we-think-creationists-should-not-use

I aint no stinking ape!!!...lol I know for a fact that i don't know... but god is probably some kind of alien from outer space..

That is a really great argument.

The only problem is that if you change your stance from arguing for creationism and attempt to give this as an argument for "Intelligent Design" it won't hold up.

An intelligent designer wouldn't have created such a stupid creation.

So I guess we're stuck between a rock and a hard place with no explanations left.

Well, I think nearly everyone in this post has seen me before and most have mixed opinions of me at best, but I can't resist this post.

I'm not watching your videos, sorry. I've heard the arguments.

Anyone who actually pays attention to my threads knows that I'm both a scientist and deeply commited to my faith, two things that are not easy to reconcile.

To answer you're post though, evolution does have a few "holes" but the people who hate evolution usually don't have the mental prowess to consider such topics.

One is how you go from a creature with no eyes to a creature that has eyes. Eyes by their own wright are complicated organs and current theories on evolution are incapable of demonstrating how they could spontaniously come into existence, even as "light feelers" which respond to light and dark. Which leads to my next point.

The mechanism for evolution is not completely understood. Darwin's survival of the fittest theories are outdated at best and some of these little key points still need to be decoded, like how single celled organisms can possibly evolve to multicellular organisms in what seems like an instant in history.

Third, evolution, like most scientific theories is not proven. Proof is irrefutable evidence and that doesn't exist for evolution. We have observed creatures being born with slightly different attributes, but the attributes are never enough to constitute a different species. Look at all the dog and cat breeders out there who have tried everything and never come up with anything but a dog or a cat. Geckos are subjected to a LOT of experimentations in this field but still, only geckos come from the breeding.

That said, I am actually a proponent of evolution as it fits better with my spiritual theories than some massive creation buisness, but comparing evolution to creation is like comparing apples to airplanes. Evolution may have a few "holes" that need to be sorted out but the biblical view of creation is just moronic. Does that mean that it isn't true though? Of course not. None of us were here 6000 years ago to see it. For all we know there could be a devil that invented all this "scientific evidence" to fool us, or we could be trapped in the matrix, so you can't rule out creation completely, but you can say that based on evidence gathered that it seems like a silly thing to believe in.

Did you see that. a typing MONKEY!!! Call the press, it's a typing MONKEY on the internet!!!!!


Sorry mate, couldn't resist, friends?