Topic: So, you thought Bush was the dictator?
adj4u's photo
Thu 05/28/09 09:11 AM
prolonged detention as described in his speech is totally accepted by me if it is used as described in the speech


it is the same as a pow system only it gives the pow more reviews to see if they still belong there

this is for those that have been caught in the act of terrorism and have sworn to continued death and hurt to those in support of the united states just as a soldier of an opposing army would do

a pow is held till after the war is over so as long as the war with terrorist groups continues holding the terrorist that meets the above criteria is justified imo

it is the reporters that twist what is said that causes much confusion and hate and furthers to aid the terrorist organizations

and the way the link in the o p portrays the issue is misleading and almost an out right lie

and could be charged with aiding the enemy

the speech in both print and video can be found here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/21/obama-national-archives-s_n_206189.html

yellowrose10's photo
Thu 05/28/09 09:13 AM
adj...no trial??? would they be able to detain anyone just because they want to?

adj4u's photo
Thu 05/28/09 09:14 AM
Edited by adj4u on Thu 05/28/09 09:20 AM

adj...no trial??? would they be able to detain anyone just because they want to?


read the speech rose it is also in print there

pows do not get trials very often from any country unless acused of being a spy

yellowrose10's photo
Thu 05/28/09 09:17 AM
frustrated why do people make me read??? frustrated laugh

adj4u's photo
Thu 05/28/09 09:21 AM

frustrated why do people make me read??? frustrated laugh


becaus i do not want to tell you what to think

i want you to come to your on conclusion based on what was said

and yes there is a lot of lollypoping in the speech as well

yellowrose10's photo
Thu 05/28/09 09:23 AM
ooooo lollipopping...that's a must read :banana:

nogames39's photo
Thu 05/28/09 11:30 AM
Here is the excerpt from the huffingtonpost link:


Finally, there remains the question of detainees at Guantanamo who cannot be prosecuted yet who pose a clear danger to the American people.

I want to be honest: this is the toughest issue we will face. We are going to exhaust every avenue that we have to prosecute those at Guantanamo who pose a danger to our country. But even when this process is complete, there may be a number of people who cannot be prosecuted for past crimes, but who nonetheless pose a threat to the security of the United States. Examples of that threat include people who have received extensive explosives training at al Qaeda training camps, commanded Taliban troops in battle, expressed their allegiance to Osama bin Laden, or otherwise made it clear that they want to kill Americans. These are people who, in effect, remain at war with the United States.

As I said, I am not going to release individuals who endanger the American people. Al Qaeda terrorists and their affiliates are at war with the United States, and those that we capture - like other prisoners of war - must be prevented from attacking us again. However, we must recognize that these detention policies cannot be unbounded. That is why my Administration has begun to reshape these standards to ensure they are in line with the rule of law. We must have clear, defensible and lawful standards for those who fall in this category. We must have fair procedures so that we don't make mistakes. We must have a thorough process of periodic review, so that any prolonged detention is carefully evaluated and justified.

I know that creating such a system poses unique challenges. Other countries have grappled with this question, and so must we. But I want to be very clear that our goal is to construct a legitimate legal framework for Guantanamo detainees - not to avoid one. In our constitutional system, prolonged detention should not be the decision of any one man. If and when we determine that the United States must hold individuals to keep them from carrying out an act of war, we will do so within a system that involves judicial and congressional oversight. And so going forward, my Administration will work with Congress to develop an appropriate legal regime so that our efforts are consistent with our values and our Constitution.


Note the amazing lying skills this guy has. He appears to tell us about terrorists.

Example:
Examples of that threat include people who have received extensive explosives training at al Qaeda training camps, commanded Taliban troops in battle, expressed their allegiance to Osama bin Laden, or otherwise made it clear that they want to kill Americans.


So, Obama, is ANY us soldier a fair target for foreign detention then, until such time that they are no longer a treat? He says, that simply because one has a training, qualifies him for detainment without charges. Expressed their allegiance to Osama? So, should other countries detain for ten years without any charges, anyone they can grab, of those who expressed their allegiance to Obama? "otherwise made it clear", well then you have your evidence, or, did they?

adj4u's photo
Thu 05/28/09 01:08 PM
and rightly so

al qaeda has declared war on the united states

and doing so makes those they train enemy combatants subject to become pows


Lionfish's photo
Thu 05/28/09 02:21 PM
Find a real news source, would you?

nogames39's photo
Thu 05/28/09 02:25 PM

and rightly so

al qaeda has declared war on the united states

and doing so makes those they train enemy combatants subject to become pows




Ok, but that would mean you're OK with Americans being held for ever without charges, because they are trained enough to be a danger.

I think this is a slippery slope, and it really lowers our moral ground. We are America. We should be better than others.

adj4u's photo
Thu 05/28/09 02:31 PM
Edited by adj4u on Thu 05/28/09 02:36 PM


and rightly so

al qaeda has declared war on the united states

and doing so makes those they train enemy combatants subject to become pows




Ok, but that would mean you're OK with Americans being held for ever without charges, because they are trained enough to be a danger.

I think this is a slippery slope, and it really lowers our moral ground. We are America. We should be better than others.


that is not what was said

your quote even says those trained by al qaeda not those trained by the u s or any other sovereign nation says terrorist doing and swearing to do harm to the united states



Al Qaeda terrorists and their affiliates are at war with the United States, and those that we capture -like other prisoners of war - must be prevented from attacking us again. However, we must recognize that these detention policies cannot be unbounded.


go listen to the speech

i posted the link to it

you can even read it if you do not have speakers

and the patriot act already gives that power

nogames39's photo
Thu 05/28/09 05:47 PM
I do not think you read what he says AT ALL. What you are telling me is what he wants you to hear. Yeah. I get that too. I watched the video, and I read the speech transcript.

I even posted an excerpt from the transcript. And then I have showed how what he is doing is un-american, despite all the smoke and mirrors that he is saying.

Al Qaeda? Are these people going to have the service book with them, stamped "Al Qaeda"? I am guessing not. Therefore:

Obama can grab you tomorrow, and SAY that you are a member of Al Qaeda, and then put you away for 10 years, without ever needing ANY proof or evidence. That is the entire point.

Of course, he is saying that he only going to grab Al Qaeda members. How are you going to check that? In reality, he is going to grab their wives and sons, or even any political opponents he may have.

And as far as soldiers, I guess I have to chew it up. By these same logic arguments that we are using, then Al Qaeda can grab ANY of our SOLDIERS, for the simple fact that they are trained to be dangerous.

I know, they are doing it anyway. Yep. Obama didn't change that. He simply made what they doing LEGAL. Because, that is exactly what we do.

adj4u's photo
Thu 05/28/09 05:53 PM

I do not think you read what he says AT ALL. What you are telling me is what he wants you to hear. Yeah. I get that too. I watched the video, and I read the speech transcript.

I even posted an excerpt from the transcript. And then I have showed how what he is doing is un-american, despite all the smoke and mirrors that he is saying.

Al Qaeda? Are these people going to have the service book with them, stamped "Al Qaeda"? I am guessing not. Therefore:

Obama can grab you tomorrow, and SAY that you are a member of Al Qaeda, and then put you away for 10 years, without ever needing ANY proof or evidence. That is the entire point.

Of course, he is saying that he only going to grab Al Qaeda members. How are you going to check that? In reality, he is going to grab their wives and sons, or even any political opponents he may have.

And as far as soldiers, I guess I have to chew it up. By these same logic arguments that we are using, then Al Qaeda can grab ANY of our SOLDIERS, for the simple fact that they are trained to be dangerous.

I know, they are doing it anyway. Yep. Obama didn't change that. He simply made what they doing LEGAL. Because, that is exactly what we do.


yes he can that was made possible under bush with the passage of the patriot act

i have said that for years

but it does not change the fact that the report in the o p is twisting what he said


nogames39's photo
Thu 05/28/09 05:54 PM
Excuse me, what is she twisting? I did not find any twisting.

adj4u's photo
Thu 05/28/09 06:08 PM


As I said, I am not going to release individuals who endanger the American people. Al Qaeda terrorists and their affiliates are at war with the United States, and those that we capture - like other prisoners of war - must be prevented from attacking us again. However, we must recognize that these detention policies cannot be unbounded. That is why my Administration has begun to reshape these standards to ensure they are in line with the rule of law. We must have clear, defensible and lawful standards for those who fall in this category. We must have fair procedures so that we don't make mistakes. We must have a thorough process of periodic review, so that any prolonged detention is carefully evaluated and justified.



she twisted the above statement to say that he will unjustifiably arrest people and hold them indignantly (or ten years) or something similar

that is not what that says

it says those captured in the act of being

"""""" Al Qaeda terrorists and their affiliates are at war with the United States, and those that we capture - like other prisoners of war - must be prevented from attacking us again.""""""

no where does it say he will go around picking people off the street

he also says there will be on going

""""thorough process of periodic review, so that any prolonged detention is carefully evaluated and justified"""""

i really dislike standing up for obama but the facts need to be reported properly

nogames39's photo
Thu 05/28/09 06:26 PM

As I said, I am not going to release individuals who endanger the American people. Al Qaeda terrorists and their affiliates are at war with the United States, and those that we capture - like other prisoners of war - must be prevented from attacking us again.


This is what he says. She never said he literally says anything else.
She said, this means he can hold anyone, for any reason.
She is correct. This is exactly what Obama is trying to convey.

Because, he already said in a previous paragraph, that there will be no evidence to detain these people:

But even when this process is complete, there may be a number of people who cannot be prosecuted for past crimes, but who nonetheless pose a threat to the security of the United States.


If there is evidence, why can't they be prosecuted? Because, there isn't any evidence.

So, adding first quote and the second one, we get that Obama will determine anyone to be a terrorist at will, without any evidence, and hold them.

As to the "10 years" reference, that was her guess, and she openly says that, because Obama did not even call any maximum time limit. I, for instance, worry that Obama may have "indefinitely" in his mind. But she just quotes Obama saying the longest time he ever referred to, in a separate speech, 10 years, and she notes that too, before applying it to this speech.

There is no twisting. Everything she plays, is either directly Obama words, or the obvious meaning (such as with the evidence), or her ideas, and she clearly states that, when it is the case.

What I can not believe is you equate a professional who wins her bread by honest work, to a political whore, a bureaucrat, who never worked once in his sad life, and you give him, not her, the benefit of a doubt.

adj4u's photo
Thu 05/28/09 06:39 PM
Edited by adj4u on Thu 05/28/09 06:41 PM
i listened to his speech

and am going by what he actually said in it

i understand the powers the patriot act give the govt

but that has been in place long before obama became prez

and yes obama voted yay on the patriot act

i am not give obama the benefit of the doubt

i am going but what he actually said

do i doubt said powers will be abused

no not for a second

but reporting it the way it is being reported is imo misleading and will do more harm than good for the patriotic movement in this country if there is a patriotic movement in this country

using propaganda and scare tactics is what she is doing

Michael1427's photo
Thu 05/28/09 06:55 PM
She is a super star LIBERAL!!!, and she was not ad libbing anything. They guy is HITLER all over again. Don't worry though, some people get a yellow tag, I think you might qualify

Michael1427's photo
Thu 05/28/09 06:56 PM

I would like to see the speech without her ad-libbing it with her thoughts and movie clips.


meant 4 this, (sorry hun, nothing personal, just some folks should wake the F up)

nogames39's photo
Thu 05/28/09 07:05 PM
He declined the wrongs done by the Bush administration, got the credit.
Then simply continued the same wrongs (Patriot Act), as if nothing happened.

Secondly, Bush administration actually pretended they are going to have the evidence. They never got the evidence.

Obama simply states he isn't about to need any evidence, he is simply going to rot people alive because HE decided they may be dangerous.