I wont go so far as admit to myself that "end times" have much to do
with
god but rather man himself...anyone who investigates is aware that
groups
like the Bildebergs & trilaterals and many other "PTB thinktanks" have
as
an agenda the reduction of the population of the world by 2/3 ' s....how
will
they accomplish this?...could be done a number of ways...pandemic or
more
effectively a new world war...or just wait for an event they know will
happen.

You have to ask yourself..governments & corporations seem to be running
100 MPH
ahead gobbling all the profits and power possible right now..and they do
this
seemingly without concern for future generations or the future survival
of our
planet...What do they know that we do not?....Do they know something is
coming
that will change the face of our world in an instant?...I believe they
do..
History from many cultures is rife with stories of cataclysmic
events...many having
their origions from space...take your pick..meteor shower, asteroid/
comet strike,
plasma energy wave...all cultures have myths & stories of a time that
man went
underground to survive a disasterous event from the heavens..and these
events seem
to be cyclical in nature..revisiting earth very predictably. Read
Immanuel Velikovsky
whose last book was being read by Einstein at the time of his death..

Will revelations play out in reality?...probably....but it may have a
more natural
cause and effect than something etherical from god...

I pose this question in an attempt to understand those who have a strong
belief in God and Jesus. For many of them, there is no redemption save
through Jesus. Even more, for many of them, even a "professed" belief
will not assure one of salvation.

Many Christian and non, have questioned, in these post, why would God
present us with such 'tests'? Why would God design a nature that is
faulty, endow it with an 'inherited' sin (from Adam & Eve)and then
finally send a messiah. But the messiah alone does not ensure ones
salvation, for ultimately God will judge and NO ONE KNOW HOW.

Now the playing field we are being tested from is already frought with
many inconsistancies. Birth defects, genetic abnomalities, mental
handicaps, and some are born to status while others are born to misery,
to experience abuse, malnutrition, and all manner of malodies. Now with
all these things, all those born into a gentle existence and all those
born into extreme poverty or abuse, how can any God judge as if this
were a level testing ground?

So my question and others have been, how can any God reqire such tests,
how can any God watch the suffering of their children.

Yet people believe with all thier mind and heart. So in this post I am
trying to understand if there really are parents with this deep faith
who would continue to have children in a world deep in the throws of
REVELATIONS and the end times. Who somehow have the same mentality as a
God who would not only pass on the original inherited sin, but then
allow their children to suffer through the worst of times, with only a
'possibilty' of salvation at the end.

For those like Jess, Invisible, myself and possibly AB, I would expect
us to say yes, I would continue to have children, for they may be the
ones to correct what has been set wrong.

You see, our faith or lack of it, allows us hope in a different way.
Hope that the future can be made better, that children can right wrongs,
or even that a belief in Jesus is, of itself, salvation, without further
testing required. At least that kind of Christian faith allows for
heaven, no matter the suffering that might occur in their lives.

So if we learn from our parents or respected authority figures, are some
of these Christians "learning" their parenting skills from the God they
believe so strongly in? Yes my children will suffer, but God told me to
procreate in spite of this, knowing full well, all the strikes "already"
against them, after all the suffering that the end time must inflict in
accordance to prophecy, after all the love a parent will invest, they
are still not offered more than a possibility of salvation, OH WELL, it
is, after all, the will of God.

Just trying to understand the attitude of anyone bearing children into
such turmoil and suffering, as they believe the end times will bring,
only for the purpose of suffering. For truely, there will not be hope
of saving this world, it is the end times, so what would be the point of
'passing on the sin' or birthing into suffering without even the PROMISE
of salvation, as they view it.

may as well blame god for our stupidity and ignorance i dont think you
will be able to put god on trial though for all the bad stuff that
humans never do.

Jane, I read the "Left Behind" series, I found it quite interesting and
entertaining. But if what is going to happen, according to those who
would interpret Revolations, happens, I think the books were far to
kind. Obviously they were written from the perspective of one who has
never experienced the loathe that exists on a daily basis, outside this
country. For according to Revelation, no one will be spared the
suffering to be inflicted, EXCEPT, those chosen to be removed from the
situation.
And what will become of their children when they are not here to
teach them the way to salvation. Another one of those shortsighted,
illplanned ventures of a God whose tests have no forseeable outcome.

I don't understand where people got the idea that, because there's a
God, there shouldn't be any "bad" in the world. Evil is just a part of
our human existence. I don't blame God, nor disbelieve in Him, because
of it.

better have iq tests for any would be matriarchs.

whether or not we choose to procreate the specis will evolve.


we can fool ourselves with all our constructed psychologies and
philosophies and religions......we can choose to believe


or we can take into consideration the genetics of life, and it's drive
to manifest itself and rethink our notions that we actually have "An END
OF TIMES".....

jeanc200358 wrote:

I don't understand where people got the idea that, because there's a
God, there shouldn't be any "bad" in the world. Evil is just a part of
our human existence. I don't blame God, nor disbelieve in Him, because
of it.

==========================================================================================
SpiderCMB replied:

Matthew 13:3-9
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And He spoke many things to them in parables, saying, "Behold, the sower
went out to sow; and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and
the birds came and ate them up. Others fell on the rocky places, where
they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because
they had no depth of soil. But when the sun had risen, they were
scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. Others fell
among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out. And others
fell on the good soil and yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some
sixty, and some thirty. He who has ears, let him hear."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had decided in my early teens that I would not be responsible for
brining any new human beings into this world even the way it already is.
The world is already way over-populated. Overpopulation is the only
real problem we have. All our other problems stem from overpopulation.

My decision was based purely on the observations of the ignorance of
mankind as a whole. It was not a religious ideal at all. Humanity as a
whole is a pathetically ignorance species. Some people refuse to
believe that we evolved from ape-like creatures. I agree with them.
Just take one look at the leader of the most powerful country in the
world and it’s perfectly clear that we haven’t evolved at all. Our
leaders are indeed ape-like creatures.

If god has a heaven for humans it’s most likely a zoo to put them on
display for more highly evolved species of the universe to visit and
feed them peanuts. Thank god he’s only selecting Christians for that!

I wo

I wo

This is just crazy. What happened???

I would still have my children. It is through us...then them to save
this nation. If it is our will to understand that we MUST change. Our
world cannot exist in the way it has always been. We have caused much
destruction and done so much injury to our planet earth.

It was said that God is the judge. It is also through Jesus that we are
judged. It is said that Jesus will sit at the throne beside God as
Judge.

Whether it be God, god, Jesus,mother earth, or a spirit of light. We are
in the last days. I say this because it is written; but not only that:
because it is shown in the way our lives are affected in the hear and
now. Our world is in turmoil and dismay. We have caused this and if we
don't fix it; we are in big trouble. Some people talk, and some people
do. It all depends on what we as people decide. Comfort or luxury. Easy,
or something to work towards. It seems lazy is the option many want.
Kat

first mistake: we can't take the book of revelations word by word, if we
do so we are fanatics.
second mistake: just the Father knows when the end of the world is going
to be, so anyone who claims to know when is that day it's a lier.
third mistake: just because a person decides not to have children that
is not to solve the over population problem.

I would love to have my children anyway regardless of what happen to
this world. I would do my best to raise them strong, so they can endure
the crap of this world.

James you are welcome to my christian heaven, I would love spend
eternity learning from you.

TLW

yes Miguel, I agree, not having children would mean to abandon
hope, and as far as I'm concerned, there is always hope.

AB and Mrs. Red are also invited, so we can set a fire. Then we can sit
around, and talk about philosophy, and everything. I will be quiet
learning from you guys.

TLW

If as some beleive we have entered the end of days fear not.

The time of the end of days is way longer than you might believe.

The time between each seal is measured such that one generation might
see but a single seal broken.

Even after these seals are all broken and all trumpets have sounded
there is again a time and times to go.

For resurection is set to be done by steps of two. One to be done at
the time of the sealing of the serpent. After that time then will
resurecton be made of all those that died in the name of Christ. When
this has come to pass mankind will have a thousand years still upon the
clock.

Much can be accomplished in a thousand years.

I just hope it's all on TV so I can watch.

redmange420,

It will be.

LW - I think this has been a lovely chat, all we need now is the
campfire.

Jean, you commented that you don't understand where poeple get the idea,
that just because there is a God that there shouldn't be any bad in the
world.

I suppose that's the biggest issue I have as an athiest. Now, if God
set up the universe, and it was taught that God also set up a "natural
order" to oversee and maintain the universe, Then I could understand
that God need not be omnipresent, as nature was set in motion to care
for Gods creations. God Created the Universe, God created humans and all
things of this earth, including nature. Nature being a set of laws that
see to the continuence and maintenance of all that God created. Now
nature is not perfect, we are not perfect and because God is not present
every second, then bad and or evil will happen.
This would also explain why God found it necessary to present in the
form of Jesus. Basically it was to provide a way to "level" the playing
field of the less than perfect, random acts of nature. To offer Jesus
to as the equalizer, makes "perfect" sense.
But this is not what Christians believe, or rather, what
fundementalist Christians believe. That is what causes my confusion.
For, while I accept their believing as they see fit, I can not
understand, why they would dismiss knowledge, based on science,
discovered through the imperfect acts of nature, because of scriptures
that do not account for or give reasons for the most 'normal' functions
of an imperfect nature.

Thanks everyone for posting.