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| Topic: American education standards | |
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So Rose, what percentage of high school dropuouts would you say dropped out for legitimate reasons? I wouldn't even try to guess...to come close you would have to survey all drop outs and I doubt that can happen. the figures can vary. |
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Hi Rose. I equate a GED with a HS diploma. Just got it a little later. For 99% of high school students, there is no excuse for not graduating. Notice I did not say 100%. I would not equate a GED to a HS diploma. Getting a HS Diploma shows persistence and resilience. I would take ten Vets who served at least 4 yrs over 100 college graduates any day! |
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The dropout rate for 2006 was 9.3% So if we say 1/2 of these were for legitimate reasons, then:
90.7% graduate 4.65% Drop out for legitimate reasons 95.35% Total That's not too far from my 99% figure. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0779196.html |
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That's not bad!
Some states are higher than others too. A lot higher! |
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Ive been fighting a law here that allows a 16 yr old to drop out of HS without parental permission.
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Here is my problem with the system as it stands...
Far too often the possibilities regarding the role in society that one can play depends wholly upon education level, which is complete;y dependent upon financial means. Education level itself does not necessarily indicate one's ability to effectively perform a task. Emphasis is on that which can be acquired through monetary means alone - paperwork - rather than true personal capability. Georgie porgie demonstrated this rather well. |
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Sun 05/17/09 05:19 PM
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The test results (an avg) in the US are affected by many variables.
Different state laws and different demographics just to name a few. Did you know that among children of illegal immigrants the dropout rate is greater than 70 percent! I was making a chart one day and if you divide the US test results up by state, the US would have approx 7 of the top ten highest scores in the world! Makes since when you consider the European Union countries are only as big as 1 US state without 25% of the diversity. It would be a better comparison to avg the scores of all the EU countries as one. I still dont think the diversity would be as high but the scores would present a more accurate comparison! |
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The test results (an avg) in the US are affected by many variables. Different state laws and different demographics just to name a few. Did you know that among children of illegal immigrants the dropout rate is greater than 70 percent! I was making a chart one day and if you divide the US test results up by state, the US would have approx 7 of the top ten highest scores in the world! Makes since when you consider the European Union countries are only as big as 1 US state without 25% of the diversity. It would be a better comparison to avg the scores of all the EU countries as one. I still dont think the diversity would be as high but the scores would present a more accurate comparison! Ok, beside looking at USA and counting how many drop out or not, why don't we compare USA to the rest of the world. Many US-non dropout students would be drop outs. here is an article from last year november: WASHINGTON, Nov. 19 (UPI) -- The United States is no longer the world leader in secondary education, according to the rankings of an international organization. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development places the United States 18th among the 36 nations examined, USA Today reported Wednesday. Headed to the top of the heap is South Korea where 93 percent of high school students graduate on time compared with the United States where 75 percent receive their diplomas. The seemingly downward trend of U.S. education worries economists. "The United States has rested on its laurels way too long," Jacob Funk Kirkegaard of the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington, told USA Today. "Other countries have increasingly caught up and surpassed the United States." "We've been asleep for a good number of years as a country," says Richard Freeman, an economics professor at Harvard. "It's not that we're doing horrible. But the other guys are moving faster." http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/19/US-slipping-in-education-rankings/UPI-90221227104776/ Here is a riddle. Find USA on the top 25 ranking of education here:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1571445/World-rankings-for-reading-maths-and-science.html |
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Now compare those scores to our top 5 States individually.
You could take every country in Europe and they would still not equal the US in size or demographics! If you take the scores from just Minn, Mass, Conn, they would all rank in the top 5 or close on that list. |
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We do need to do better with regards to math and science in this country.
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I wouldnt put much stock in those results!
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Parents need to be made to get involved. Mine were very much so, and we were in the doghouse if we made less then B's. (well, they let me slide with a high C on Algebra in HS, because the teacher was an ass, and remained that way even when my folks went in to have a chat with him).
There needs to be less focus on sports and more on schools. IMO, Texas sucks for their education because of so little focus on schooling and more on the sports. And from the people I talk to, it seems to be more and more going that route across the US. The high school I graduated at has the highest paid football coach in Texas. Something like $100,000 or thereabouts. Regular teachers might do $30,000. Unreal! There needs to be real incentive for these kids to bust butt and get out early. I graduated HS in 2.5 years, because I wanted out. My brother did it in 3 yrs. The state gave me (and him) $1000 towards college. There needs to be less play in schools. Really. There's entirely to more game-playing and goofing around in school. I personally think the TASP, TASK, or whatever the heck they call the tests nowadays are idiotic, and aren't allowing the teachers to teach anything useful. They teach to pass the test. Then the first 2 years of college are wasted being retaught the basics because they didn't get it the first time. |
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Now compare those scores to our top 5 States individually. You could take every country in Europe and they would still not equal the US in size or demographics! If you take the scores from just Minn, Mass, Conn, they would all rank in the top 5 or close on that list. So tell me, how many states (out of 50) are able to compete with the rest of the world to be in the top 10-20 spots and should we be going by states? What's gonna happen with the rest and which states have the worst scores? |
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Finnland 2nd in reading and math and 1st in Science. Impressive.
Gives me something to research on. Thanks for the information Atlantis. 
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Edited by
Atlantis75
on
Sun 05/17/09 06:30 PM
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Finnland 2nd in reading and math and 1st in Science. Impressive. Gives me something to research on. Thanks for the information Atlantis. Finland has been setting the standards in education for a couple of years now. here, read this: t the heart of Finland's stellar reputation is a philosophy completely alien to America. The country of 5.3 million in an area twice the size of Missouri considers education an end in itself - not a means to an end. It's a deeply rooted value that is reflected in the Ministry of Education and in all 432 municipalities. In sharp contrast, Americans view education as a stepping stone to better-paying jobs or to impress others. The distinction explains why we are obsessed with marquee names, and how we structure, operate and fund schools. The headlines notwithstanding, misconceptions about Finland's renown as an educational icon abound. The Finns spend a meager (compared to the U.S.) $5,000 a year per student, operate no gifted programs, have average class sizes close to 30, and don't begin schooling children until they are 7. Moreover, Finland is not the homogeneous nation of lore. While still not as diverse as the U.S., the number of immigrant students in Helsinki's comprehensive schools is exploding, with their numbers expected to constitute 23.3 percent of the city's schools by 2025. At present, about 11 percent are immigrants, compared with just 6 percent in 2002. According to the City of Helsinki Urban Facts, by 2015 there will be schools with more than half of the student body from abroad. Not surprisingly, in a land where literacy and numeracy are considered virtues, teachers are revered. Teenagers ranked teaching at the top of their list of favorite professions in a recent survey. Far more graduates of upper schools in Finland apply for admission to teacher-training institutes than are accepted. The overwhelming majority of those who eventually enter the classroom as a teacher make it a lifelong career, even though they are paid no more than their counterparts in other European countries. One of the major reasons for the job satisfaction that Finnish teachers report is the great freedom they enjoy in their instructional practices. As long as they adhere to the core national curriculum, teachers are granted latitude unheard of in the U.S. The scripted lesson plans that teachers here are increasingly being expected to follow would be rejected out of hand as an insult by teachers in Finland and by their powerful union, which has a growing membership of some 117,500 members. If none of these facts are enough to raise doubts about the policies the U.S. has in place or on the drawing board, Finland's testing practices should raise a final red flag. The Finns do not administer national standardized tests during the nine years of basic education. Instead, the National Board of Education assesses learning on the basis of a sample representing about 10 percent of a stipulated age group. Individual school results are strictly confidential, and schools are neither ranked nor compared. The data collected are available only to the schools in question and to the National Board of Education, which use them to help improve instruction. The naming and shaming that No Child Left Behind relies on in its obsession with quantification would be unthinkable. http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/27/7330 |
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Finnland 2nd in reading and math and 1st in Science. Impressive. Gives me something to research on. Thanks for the information Atlantis. Finland has been setting the standards in education for a couple of years now. here, read this: t the heart of Finland's stellar reputation is a philosophy completely alien to America. The country of 5.3 million in an area twice the size of Missouri considers education an end in itself - not a means to an end. It's a deeply rooted value that is reflected in the Ministry of Education and in all 432 municipalities. In sharp contrast, Americans view education as a stepping stone to better-paying jobs or to impress others. The distinction explains why we are obsessed with marquee names, and how we structure, operate and fund schools. The headlines notwithstanding, misconceptions about Finland's renown as an educational icon abound. The Finns spend a meager (compared to the U.S.) $5,000 a year per student, operate no gifted programs, have average class sizes close to 30, and don't begin schooling children until they are 7. Moreover, Finland is not the homogeneous nation of lore. While still not as diverse as the U.S., the number of immigrant students in Helsinki's comprehensive schools is exploding, with their numbers expected to constitute 23.3 percent of the city's schools by 2025. At present, about 11 percent are immigrants, compared with just 6 percent in 2002. According to the City of Helsinki Urban Facts, by 2015 there will be schools with more than half of the student body from abroad. Not surprisingly, in a land where literacy and numeracy are considered virtues, teachers are revered. Teenagers ranked teaching at the top of their list of favorite professions in a recent survey. Far more graduates of upper schools in Finland apply for admission to teacher-training institutes than are accepted. The overwhelming majority of those who eventually enter the classroom as a teacher make it a lifelong career, even though they are paid no more than their counterparts in other European countries. One of the major reasons for the job satisfaction that Finnish teachers report is the great freedom they enjoy in their instructional practices. As long as they adhere to the core national curriculum, teachers are granted latitude unheard of in the U.S. The scripted lesson plans that teachers here are increasingly being expected to follow would be rejected out of hand as an insult by teachers in Finland and by their powerful union, which has a growing membership of some 117,500 members. If none of these facts are enough to raise doubts about the policies the U.S. has in place or on the drawing board, Finland's testing practices should raise a final red flag. The Finns do not administer national standardized tests during the nine years of basic education. Instead, the National Board of Education assesses learning on the basis of a sample representing about 10 percent of a stipulated age group. Individual school results are strictly confidential, and schools are neither ranked nor compared. The data collected are available only to the schools in question and to the National Board of Education, which use them to help improve instruction. The naming and shaming that No Child Left Behind relies on in its obsession with quantification would be unthinkable. http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/27/7330 Very good read and makes alot of sense. Thankyou for sharing this.
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I graduated as a member of the national honor society, had A's and B's throughout high school, my mom dropped out in the 8th grade to get a job to help her mother pay the bills...I worked hard in school at the expense of no friends, no one to play with on weekends and no life during the summer. I finally went to college and couldn't handle it. I had a meltdown and flunked out. I am planning on going back to college this year.
My sisters had to do tests that i had never even heard of... the MCAS test. My youngest sister failed the test 5 times before finally passing it. The 5th try would have been her last try as they would have made her repeat the 12th grade even though she was not failing her classes. She would have stayed back simply because she couldn't pass a test that some teachers can't pass. While kids may not be perfect in school, as long as they try their best and give it some effort, I'm happy. I would much rather have a child with c's than have a child that is depressed due to lack of a social life. That can affect a child's entire life. *notice that I said C's, I don't count D's unless the child has a learning disability. |
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Mon 05/18/09 06:59 AM
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Now compare those scores to our top 5 States individually. You could take every country in Europe and they would still not equal the US in size or demographics! If you take the scores from just Minn, Mass, Conn, they would all rank in the top 5 or close on that list. So tell me, how many states (out of 50) are able to compete with the rest of the world to be in the top 10-20 spots and should we be going by states? What's gonna happen with the rest and which states have the worst scores? The top ten? About 7! The rest are burdened by their own laws and demographics. Tex, Ariz, N Mexico, and Calif all have an extreme illegal immigration problem. Children of Illegals have a greater than 70% drop-out rate. This drags their schools avg down. Likewise, Miss and Ala have a very large, very poor black population in their schools. Their grades are also low. I wouldnt put any stock in these test results because they are giving by the individual countries with no standardized procedures. Better places to look are at the University level. America has 45 of the top 50 world wide, and accepts students from everywhere. Look and see where American Graduate's GPAs rank class wide. Look at innovations! Americans kill the rest of the world in innovations that help mankind! Its not even a close comparison! |
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Mon 05/18/09 07:06 AM
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There are those who want to learn and get support from home and those who have no interest in seeking a higher education.
The education system in the US is a good one. The education a student takes home is entirely up to that student. Why do you want to force it? Parents need to ensure their children take their education serious. We dont need to dismantle and reconstruct the entire system. The problem does not lie with the system! |
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Edited by
smiless
on
Mon 05/18/09 07:59 AM
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Finnland 2nd in reading and math and 1st in Science. Impressive. Gives me something to research on. Thanks for the information Atlantis. Finland has been setting the standards in education for a couple of years now. here, read this: t the heart of Finland's stellar reputation is a philosophy completely alien to America. The country of 5.3 million in an area twice the size of Missouri considers education an end in itself - not a means to an end. It's a deeply rooted value that is reflected in the Ministry of Education and in all 432 municipalities. In sharp contrast, Americans view education as a stepping stone to better-paying jobs or to impress others. The distinction explains why we are obsessed with marquee names, and how we structure, operate and fund schools. The headlines notwithstanding, misconceptions about Finland's renown as an educational icon abound. The Finns spend a meager (compared to the U.S.) $5,000 a year per student, operate no gifted programs, have average class sizes close to 30, and don't begin schooling children until they are 7. Moreover, Finland is not the homogeneous nation of lore. While still not as diverse as the U.S., the number of immigrant students in Helsinki's comprehensive schools is exploding, with their numbers expected to constitute 23.3 percent of the city's schools by 2025. At present, about 11 percent are immigrants, compared with just 6 percent in 2002. According to the City of Helsinki Urban Facts, by 2015 there will be schools with more than half of the student body from abroad. Not surprisingly, in a land where literacy and numeracy are considered virtues, teachers are revered. Teenagers ranked teaching at the top of their list of favorite professions in a recent survey. Far more graduates of upper schools in Finland apply for admission to teacher-training institutes than are accepted. The overwhelming majority of those who eventually enter the classroom as a teacher make it a lifelong career, even though they are paid no more than their counterparts in other European countries. One of the major reasons for the job satisfaction that Finnish teachers report is the great freedom they enjoy in their instructional practices. As long as they adhere to the core national curriculum, teachers are granted latitude unheard of in the U.S. The scripted lesson plans that teachers here are increasingly being expected to follow would be rejected out of hand as an insult by teachers in Finland and by their powerful union, which has a growing membership of some 117,500 members. If none of these facts are enough to raise doubts about the policies the U.S. has in place or on the drawing board, Finland's testing practices should raise a final red flag. The Finns do not administer national standardized tests during the nine years of basic education. Instead, the National Board of Education assesses learning on the basis of a sample representing about 10 percent of a stipulated age group. Individual school results are strictly confidential, and schools are neither ranked nor compared. The data collected are available only to the schools in question and to the National Board of Education, which use them to help improve instruction. The naming and shaming that No Child Left Behind relies on in its obsession with quantification would be unthinkable. http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/27/7330 Here is a interesting read. I think many countries around the world can learn a thing or two from Finnland if they truly wanted to. We probably don't need to go much to explain the great success of Finland's educational system. Although the country is comparatively small, Finland has the principal research and development offices of Nokia -- along with 800 other high-tech companies, some overflowing their expertise into neighboring Russia. This country, not too far from the Arctic circle, is considered to be in the top three of the world’s most competitive countries. The reason seems clear: its educational system. The Finnish government keeps the pressure on students to a point that they complain of a lack of fun at school. At the same time, there are no nationwide exams or even final tests. There is continuous assessment -- a mixture of monthly tests and teacher evaluations. The Finns make sure that all children get fed by providing free meals at school. They subsidize student travel, which they feel is a major part of the education process. However badly behaved, no student fears expulsion. The emphasis is "getting to the bottom of" whatever behavior problems emerge. Only 15 per cent of those who apply to be teachers are accepted, even though pay levels are about average for Europe. A master’s degree is required. (Not unrelated, for it's size this country has one of the highest percentage of Ph.D.s in the world.) Teachers are regularly sent on courses during their long holidays to upgrade their knowledge and skills. The Finns focus on students in need and reject a class-stratified educational system. They feel that equality in the classroom ends up being a plus and not a hindrance to overall progress. Thus, the educational gap between the "haves" and the "have-not's" shrinks, and the overall level of student and adult achievement in the country is raised. This one is also a great read - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/05/AR2005080502015.html |
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