And as far as knowin where I came from..I came from my momma and
daddy...anything else ain't all that freakin important....


Oh and as far as goin to hell and not being the "right religion" I do
believe you God tells you not to judge people, ain't your freakin job eh

I've been curious about that too.

ChubbyCherubPoet Wrote:

I wonder why certain Christians feel the need to attempt to convert any
of us who do not believe what they do..

========================================================================================
SpiderCMB replied:

Because we are told to make diciples of the world.

========================================================================================
ChubbyCherubPoet Wrote:

and I wonder why they always play the goin to hell trump card....

========================================================================================
SpiderCMB replied:

I don't do that, because I don't believe in hell, but lets look from
their standpoint. If you believed that there was a place of eternal
torment, wouldn't you want to save as many people from that as possible?
Wouldn't you feel that you had to warn people of what awaited them?
Assuming you believed in hell, that is.

People don't learn when constantly threatened with hell...you want them
to learn then leave the fear stuff out of it

ChubbyCherubPoet,

If you saw a blind man walking towards a cliff, would you warn him?
What if he replied "There is no cliff, I walk my own path.", would you
give up?

Those who are not saved are spiritually blind. Look at the people here
who believe in "god", but insist they are without sin. Look at the
people who start foaming at the mouth if someone quotes from the Bible,
while they deny that it is anything but a book.

People need to be warned, even if it hurts their feelings. Because if
you saw a blind man walking towards a cliff and didn't try to stop him,
then you are guilty of murder when he falls off.

to the Hell Sayers.

If this is all you got from the manifestation of Christ you have wasted
your time reading.

There is so much more to his message then what you have stated. Instead
of the beauty you have found but a small club with which to beat upon
those that see more.

If a man lives not by the book but still by the law it be as if he has
known gods grace through me for the spirit has touched him and his place
in heaven will be secure.

You are supposed to come to the father not by the body of Christ but by
adherance to the word of god. If a person adheres to this resplendent
message and yet calls not upon the messenger who brought the message
still is that person graced for the message remains while the messenger
graces this mortal realm no more.

AdventureBegins,

No one can approach the Father but the Son. You cannot keep the Law,
that is the lesson of the Law. YOU ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. You will never
be good enough. The purpose of the Law is to break your pride and
humble you. Only through Grace can you be saved. The Law will not save
you. Works will not save you.

AdventureBegins,

No one can approach the Father but the Son. You cannot keep the Law,
that is the lesson of the Law. YOU ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. You will never
be good enough. The purpose of the Law is to break your pride and
humble you. Only through Grace can you be saved. The Law will not save
you. Works will not save you.

There is no need for you or anyone else to approach the father. The
father comes to you resides within you and surrounds you with his love.
I have no need to approach him for he is in me and his grace touches
each breath I take.

The purpose of the Gods law is to give mankind a way to live together in
love and harmony.
the purpose of the law as stated by the churches is to bring you into
the flock where they may shear you in their season.
Christ did not come to build a church he came to renew the laws and
bring the children of god into the light. I say to you those he has
trusted with his divine message have taken his cloak upon themselves and
cried out their message in his name.

Spider,

That very same middle man business is why I could not remain in the
catholic church. Do you think God would send a son to instill fear. Or
- oh, here's a concept. What if that same Jesus you want me to go
through was sent to be an example that a mere mortal could ac-com-plish
what was desired of a loving human race.

AdventureBegins,

You reject the Bible, so where do you learn about Jesus, God and the
Law?

Differentkindofwench,

The Catholic church is based on the doctrine of the Nicolaitans. They
place man between God and Jesus. That is probably why you felt so
distant from God in that religion. But to claim Jesus was just a man,
you must ignore his own teachings. Jesus said "Before Abraham was I
AM." Read John 1, Jesus was with God from the beginning. Everything
that was created was created for and by Jesus.

Why don't you try to read The Book of John and one or two of the
Synoptic Gospels and listen to your spirit. Your spirit already knows
the truth and it wants you to know too.

I think if you step back and ignore what you have been taught, you might
find that Christianity isn't what you believe it to be.

From god.

Where else would such a message come from but the one that sent it.

AdventureBegins,

You talk directly to god? Okay, do this for me. Tell god he is a jerk,
he's stupid, he's worthless and he is weak. Tell him to smite me. Tell
him that I will never serve, love or respect him, so whatever fate he
reserves for the wicked should be given to me double. While you are at
it, ask your god why he sent his son to die a meaningless death. Tell
him that he is thoughtless and cruel to do such a thing.

My God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob cannot be approached
directly by any created being. I fear and love God and I have humbled
myself to be the servant of his Son Jesus. Jesus is my Lord and he
offers me refuge from the consuming Glory of the Father.

Spider,

You are correct about my spirit. My spirit knows the truth. Will your
books confuse and distort that truth or will they confirm my inner
knowing? I'll gladly read them. It will be interesting to see, which
viewpoint we individually read from. I look forward to letting you know
my findings.

One thought though - Do you know of only one way home to your house? I
do believe many paths lead to the same destination (God) and not all are
riddled with fear and condemnation.

Spider,

In that last post to Aventure Begins, You sound like Yule Brenner's
Pharoah character in the 10 commandments. Nice impression!!!!!

I did not approach god. He invited me.

I did not approach god he is within me.

Why would I tell him any of those things. You are a human with the
light of grace within you.

I do not talk to god except in my prayers I listen for though his voice
is soft and still it contains such power that my ears hear nothing else.

Differentkindofwench,

I haven't seen that movie, but I want to. I stole that trick from
Elijah. Elijah vs the Priests of Ba'al is one of my favorite Bible
stories.

Differentkindofwench,

I would love to hear what you think of the Bible.

I would suggest starting with John, because it's really about the
divinity of Christ.

Matthew was written to the Jews, so it includes a lot of discussion of
the Law and prophecy.

Mark is written to be short and quick to read.

Luke was written to the Gentiles.

If you can, please read all four. If you get a Bible (or maybe you own
one), you can start at the beginning of the New Testament and read all
four of them very quickly, but you might want to start with John for a
great foundation on the divinity of Jesus and then go back to Matthew.

Its a good movie; course, Heston is one of my fav's and so's the story.
Brenner does do an awesome job as Pharoah.

Ok, so we will never all agree. In fact like religions will never all
agree point to point. So since we can no all agree let me MOVE ON as
the topic indicates.

So moving forward, is it possible, for all manner of culture and
religion to live in one nation, and have and abide by a single set of
civil laws, that are not in any way equated with any specific religion?

If, freedom of religion, in said country, is guaranteed in the laws of
that country, is that not enough?

In other words if a law which seems to offend the sensiblilty of ones
religions belief, would you all be able to live with it?

ANSWER TRUTHFULLY!