well first you have to make sure they have their feet in buckets of water

I used to use TENS. It never seemed to do much good for me although I know people who swear by it

Depends on what you use it for. For alleviating pain due to nerve issues, I hear they work well. I have a friend using one now. But I just play with mine. My ex loved it but she was a bit freaky(er) than me...and could sure take a lot more. lol Goes from tickle me Elmo to knock her cl*t loose. I
I've considered buying a used diesel electric motor from KCS but it was cost prohibitive.

It's sad that many in this country have lost their moral values and resorted to hypocrisy!

The Tokyo Trials, officially known as the International Military Tribunal for the Far East.

After World War II, an international coalition convened to prosecute Japanese soldiers charged with torture. At the top of the list of techniques was water-based interrogation, known variously then as "water cure," "water torture" and "waterboarding," according to the charging documents. It simulates drowning.

R. John Pritchard, a historian and lawyer who is a top scholar on the trials, said the Japanese felt the ends justified the means. "The rapid and effective collection of intelligence then, as now, was seen as vital to a successful struggle, and in addition, those who were engaged in torture often felt that whatever pain and anguish was suffered by the victims of torture was nothing less than the just deserts of the victims or people close to them," he said.

In a recent journal essay, Judge Evan Wallach, a member of the U.S. Court of International Trade and an adjunct professor in the law of war, writes that the testimony from American soldiers about this form of torture was gruesome and convincing. A number of the Japanese soldiers convicted by American judges were hanged, while others received lengthy prison sentences or time in labor camps.

the Japanese felt the ends justified the means. "The rapid and effective collection of intelligence then, as now, was seen as vital to a successful struggle, and in addition, those who were engaged in torture often felt that whatever pain and anguish was suffered by the victims of torture was nothing less than the just deserts of the victims or people close to them,"

Congratulations!

We have become no better than the Japanese in WWII.

My morals are fine. I don't steal, cheat, lie or make promises that I don't keep. And I never hurt anyone that didn't need it.

Its sad that there are so many liberal fags in this country who want to give it away, sell it out, and play patty-cake with people that chop heads off, drag soldiers and civilians until they're just chunks of meat flying off by the roadside. You need to visit Afghanistan, Somalia, now Indonesia or some places like that where these people, our ENEMIES, were raised. They'd like you...a lot. But I don't think you'd like them much. Surely not for long.

You failed to mention how our US soldiers were treated by the Japanese in WWII. Beaten regularly, executed for the fun of it, starved down to thier skeletons...malaria, dysentery, etc. Or maybe the images and the truth of war disturb you too much for your gentle soul to manage. Stick with ballet friend.

BTW, I'm not for torturing them, I'm for KILLING THEM.

if torture saves American lives,i'm all for it. The Terrorists don't play by the rules why should We? Fight Fire With Fire be seeing you

First of all I am a vet (Infantry) and an independent.

The way our soldiers were treated was wrong. We used to hold a higher moral ground before Bush and would prosecute the criminals who tortured.

Now we are the criminals and have no moral ground to stand on unless we make the criminals amongst us stand up and answer to their crimes. If we dont then we lose all credibility, all trust, and appear as hypocrites to the world.

Do you seriously think killing a prisoner of war is anymore right than torture? LOL

What about the hundreds or maybe even thousands who were picked up for questioning and were innocent?

VIENNA — The U.S. is obligated by a United Nations convention to prosecute Bush administration lawyers who allegedly drafted policies that approved the use of harsh interrogation tactics against terrorism suspects, the U.N.'s top anti-torture envoy said Friday.

Earlier this week, President Barack Obama left the door open to prosecuting Bush administration officials who devised the legal authority for gruesome terror-suspect interrogations. He had previously absolved CIA officers from prosecution.

Manfred Nowak, who serves as a U.N. special rapporteur in Geneva, said Washington is obligated under the U.N. Convention against Torture to prosecute U.S. Justice Department officials who wrote memos that defined torture in the narrowest way in order to justify and legitimize it, and who assured CIA officials that their use of questionable tactics was legal.

"That's exactly what I call complicity or participation" to torture as defined by the convention, Nowak said at a news conference. "At that time, every reasonable person would know that waterboarding, for instance, is torture."

Nowak, an Austrian law professor, said it was up to U.S. courts and prosecutors to prove that the memos were written with the intention to incite torture.

Nowak and other experts said that a failure to investigate and prosecute when there was evidence of torture left those responsible vulnerable to prosecutorial action abroad.

"If it should turn out ... that the (U.S.) government and its authorities are not willing to prosecute those where we have enough evidence that they instigated or committed torture, then there is also an obligation on all other 145 states" party to the convention to exercise universal jurisdiction, Nowak said.

That means countries would have an obligation to arrest the individuals in question if they were on their soil and extradite them to the U.S. if Washington gave clear assurances they would bring them to justice. In the absence of such assurances, it would fall upon the respective country to take the individuals to court.

Nowak said this happened very rarely because the international community primarily relied on the governments of countries where torture occurs to take the necessary legal action to ensure that justice is served.

Nowak also said any probe of questionable CIA interrogation tactics must be independent and have thorough investigative powers.

"It can be a congressional investigation commission, a special investigator, but it must be independent and with thorough investigative powers," Nowak said.

On Thursday, Obama's press secretary suggested Obama does not care for an independent panel.

Last week, the Obama administration released secret CIA memos detailing interrogation tactics sanctioned under Bush.

The memos authorized keeping detainees naked, in painful standing positions and in cold cells for long periods of time. Other techniques included depriving them of solid food and slapping them. Sleep deprivation, prolonged shackling and threats to a detainee's family also were used.

Nowak said Saturday that Obama's decision not to prosecute CIA operatives who used questionable interrogation practices violates the same U.N. convention. But at that point he did not specifically address the issue of how the convention would apply to those who drafted the interrogation policy and gave the CIA the legal go-ahead.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/24/us-must-prosecute-bush-to_n_191073.html

I don't believe in torture because I don't think it works. If it did work, I think it would be an option based on the situation.

You don't seem to have your facts correct on the Japan/ WWII issues. The "worst" we have done barely equates to the "least" methods used by the Japanese. They tortured thousands and many died. They had complete contempt for Americans and did not even consider us "human beings". To equate the Bush administration to the Japanese in WWII is either ignorant or dishonest. One of the big stinks after WWII was why we didn't put more of the Japanese officers to death for torturing and killing our soldiers.

These are people who willing to blow themselves up for their cause, why do you think torture or threats of death would be beneficial, setting aside morel objections.

Many of these people were brainwashed from the time they were old enough to speak and walk into an extremist doctrine of hatred. They in turn will raise their children in this same doctrine. Is torturing and killing out of pure hatred going to break the cycle? Or does it make us equal to them in body and mind?

I've used one too. It's okay.

What's a liberal fag?

Most religious people(but not all) do not think rationally.They use a lot of overly simplistic "magic thinking" because they don't understand the world and it seems like a frightening place to them.

Actually, torture really doesn't make people tell the truth, it just makes them talk. There are specialists in the fields of interrogation that can extract accurate, timely and actionable intelligence using a variety of non-violent methods. But not from people that don't know any. The FBI is great at this for domestic issues. The CIA and other agencies have people that are trained in proper interrogation techniques. The order to use other than approved methods came straight from the top in the cases that are being argued about now.

I'm all for prosecuting Cheney, Rumsfield and Bush for manipulating the congress and the people, firing the heads of every intelligence agency that didn't (couldn't) verify thier lies for going to war in Iraq. But not for torture. For the deaths of 4000+ American soldiers for a cause that only existed in thier heads and financial statements.

I'll say it again. Al-Quaeda has formally declared war on the US. In any war, prisoners of war (combatants) are detained for the DURATION OF THE WAR. This war will never end until we wipe out all Muslim Extremist groups. Spelled..FOREVER. So these "POWS" should be locked up FOREVER. In war, according to the Geneva convention, combatants not in uniform are spies and may be summarily executed on the SPOT. They should be. A 9mm round costs the military a penny or so, as opposed to the 10s of thousands at least that housing, clothing, feeding, giving medical care to costs us each year for each one.

We should have never gotten in the second Iraq war but now that we're there, we should kick ass and take initials, not even names, and WIN. Usually you win by killing your enemies, depleting his supplies, destroying his morale, etc. Actually, IMHO, we should never have been in the FIRST Gulf War. I don't feel that protecting a monotheistic monarchy that still has slaves from invasion is good policy.But theres that oil/money thing.

What's ignorant is a weak-ass attempt to justify a crime with political dishonesty and vague justifications for the practice by taking the, "its ok it was us and we are better than them" defense.

Have you not noticed that many Americans justify our, no Bush's, use of torture on the same grounds as you are accusing from the Japanese?

I think its you who has the facts wrong and being dishonest!
Dishonest to yourself, dishonest to American values, and dishonest to history!

Its not a cigarette thats easy to smoke.

Word is, some of the detainees will be given a check, new clothes, a VISA and set loose in the US, walking our streets.

Poppycock! LMAO

Here we are back to Gitmo again.
Do you even realize that the Prisoners held at Gitmo are but a small fraction of those held and tortured by the CIA?

Many of who have never even been charged with a crime.

Getting Away with Torture?


II. A World of Abuse
As a consequence of these policies, which were approved at least by cabinet-level officials of the U.S. government, the United States has been implicated in crimes against detainees across the world - in Afghanistan, Iraq, Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and in secret detention centers, as well as in countries to which suspects have been rendered. At least 26 prisoners are said to have died in American custody in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2002 in what Army and Navy investigators have concluded or suspected were acts of criminal homicide.[22] Overall, according to a compilation by the Associated Press, at least 108 people have died in U.S. custody in Afghanistan and Iraq.[23]
What follows is a brief summary of what is now known:

Afghanistan
Nine detainees are now known to have died in U.S. custody in Afghanistan - including four cases already determined by Army investigators to be murder or manslaughter. Former detainees have made scores of other claims of torture and other mistreatment.
In March 2004, prior to the publication of the Abu Ghraib photos, Human Rights Watch released an extensive report documenting cases of U.S. military personnel arbitrarily detaining Afghan civilians, using excessive force during arrests of non-combatants, and mistreating detainees. Detainees held at military bases in 2002 and 2003 described to Human Rights Watch being beaten severely by both guards and interrogators, deprived of sleep for extended periods, and intentionally exposed to extreme cold, as well as other inhumane and degrading treatment.[24] In December 2004, Human Rights Watch raised additional concerns about detainee deaths, including one alleged to have occurred as late as September 2004.[25] In March 2005, TheWashington Post uncovered another death that occurred in CIA custody, noting that the case was under investigation but that the CIA officer implicated had been promoted.[26]

Guantánamo Bay, Cuba
There is growing evidence that detainees at Guantánamo have suffered torture and other cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment. Reports by FBI agents who witnessed detainee abuse - including the forcing of chained detainees to sit in their own excrement - have recently emerged, adding to the statements of former detainees describing the use of painful stress positions, extended solitary confinement, use of military dogs to threaten them, threats of torture and death, and prolonged exposure to extremes of heat, cold and noise.[27] Videotapes of riot squads subduing suspects reportedly show the guards punching some detainees, tying one to a gurney for questioning and forcing a dozen to strip from the waist down.[28] Ex-detainees said they had been subjected to weeks and even months in solitary confinement - which was at times either suffocatingly hot or cold from excessive air conditioning - as punishment for failure to cooperate during interrogations or for violations of prison rules.[29] According to press reports in November 2004, the International Committee of the Red Cross told the U.S. government in confidential reports that its treatment of detainees has involved psychological and physical coercion that is "tantamount to torture."[30]
Iraq
Harsh and coercive interrogation techniques such as subjecting detainees to painful stress positions and extensive sleep deprivation have been routinely used in detention centers throughout Iraq. A panel appointed by the Secretary of Defense noted 55 substantiated cases of detainee abuse in Iraq, plus twenty instances of detainee deaths still under investigation.[31] The earlier investigative report of Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba found "numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses" constituting "systematic and illegal abuse of detainees" at Abu Ghraib.[32] Another Pentagon report documented 44 allegations of such war crimes at Abu Ghraib.[33] An ICRC report concluded that in military intelligence sections of Abu Ghraib, "methods of physical and psychological coercion used by the interrogators appeared to be part of the standard operating procedures by military intelligence personnel to obtain confessions and extract information."[34]
CIA "Disappearances" and Torture
At least eleven al-Qaeda suspects, and most likely many more, have "disappeared" in U.S. custody. The CIA is holding the detainees in undisclosed locations, with no notification to their families, no access to the International Committee of the Red Cross or oversight of any sort of their treatment, and in some cases, no acknowledgement that they are even being held,[35] effectively placing them beyond the protection of the law. One detainee, Khalid Shaikh Muhammed (a presumed architect of the 9/11 attacks), was reportedly subjected to waterboarding. It was also reported that U.S. officials initially withheld painkillers from detainee Abu Zubayda, who was shot during his capture, as an interrogation device.[36]
"Extraordinary Renditions"
The CIA has regularly transferred detainees to countries in the Middle East, including Egypt and Syria, known to practice torture routinely. There are reportedly 100 to 150 cases of such "extraordinary renditions."[37] In one case, Maher Arar, a Syrian-born Canadian in transit in New York, was detained by U.S. authorities and sent to Syria. He was released without charge from Syrian custody ten months later and has described repeated torture, often with cables and electrical cords.In another case, a U.S. government-leased airplane transported two Egyptian suspects who were blindfolded, hooded, drugged, and diapered by hooded operatives, from Sweden to Egypt. There the two men were held incommunicado for five weeks and have given detailed accounts of the torture they suffered (e.g. electric shocks), including in Cairo's notorious Tora prison.[38] In a third case, Mamdouh Habib, an Egyptian-born Australian in American custody, was transported from Pakistan to Afghanistan to Egypt to Guantánamo Bay. Now back home in Australia, Habib alleges that he was tortured during his six months in Egypt with beatings and electric shocks, and hung from the walls by hooks.[39]
"Reverse Renditions" Detainees arrested by foreign authorities in non-combat and non-battlefield situations have been transferred to the United States without basic protections afforded to criminal suspects. `Abd al-Salam `Ali al-Hila, a Yemeni businessman captured in Egypt, for instance, was handed over to U.S. authorities and "disappeared" for more than a year-and-a-half before being sent to Guantánamo Bay Naval Base in Cuba.[40] Six Algerians held in Bosnia were transferred to U.S. officials in January 2002 (despite a Bosnian high court order to release them) and were sent to Guantánamo.


http://www.hrw.org/en/node/11765/section/5