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| Topic: Hate Crime Reality | |
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For a country who insists on equal rights for everyone they sure do a hypocrital job when it comes to the minorites.Special work rights,special marriage rights,special rights concerning crimes,special education rights,special rights while getting loans and morgages.The list goes on and on. No more special rights to the minorities! If all was equal for all there would be no need for monitoring and governing at that level. But it is not all equal so who is the hypocrit, the American who wants equality for all or the American who wants only equality for himself? I am a hypocrit because I say we should all be equal?I am not the one asking for special rights here! If you feel you are the hypocrit, so be it. I said who is the hypocrit? If having "special rights" is the only way to make the board more equal until people get over their own hypocrisies then so be it. I want equality for all not the priviledged. Give me a break.Martin luther king JR would be rolling in his grave.I can't see your logic when we have a black president,Oprah is billionaire,we have thousands of minority millionaire sports players,thousands of millionaire rap artist,and minorities in all forms of government,all forms of business,all forms of everything.They have all the rights and more than anyone else in this country.They don't need more. Would you mind telling me how we can possibly bend over more backwards for these people than we already have?We else could they possible want? How about a black president-Got it How about powerfull government positions-Powell head of defense Rice-Secretary to the president How about higher test scores on college exams because of race or color-Got that too How about prefence for jobs based on race and skin color-Affirmitive action |
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"equality for all"...No more tax exemptions for churchs!!!! How many private homes are in the "Churchs" name are there????? Why should they get a tax break on propertys that have nothing to do with the church!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats lame!!!!!!The churches are not part of our government and never will be.There is also millions of tax exemptions for all kinds of non profits.This also has nothing to do with this topic. |
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yah no more special rights...just let the majority trample all over the minorities. Of course this will include special rights that extend to religions, ethnicities, sexual orientations, handicapped people, and the list goes on. Take all the rights away and just let the majority decide for them what's in their best interest...and while you're at it how about you click your heels together and say there's no place like home...... ( note the obvious sarcasm lol) If the death of matthew shapherd was due to drugs/alcohol, why did the boys target a known gay man? Why did their gfs admit, under oath, that they said they were going to rob a GAY man? Nope it wasn't a hate crime, they premeditated to rob a gay man from the get go but its not a hate crime. You got it backwards bub.The minorites are trampling over the majority.I don't think you should have special rights because of your skin color,gender,or sexual status. So what???A gay man was killed because he was gay.So what?Millions of people have been killed for all sorts of reasons.People have been killed simply for wearing a blue shirt in a town full or red shirt gang members.People have been killed for flipping someone off in a car. The gay agenda and how they are the victim all the time is getting old.Give it a rest. |
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For a country who insists on equal rights for everyone they sure do a hypocrital job when it comes to the minorites.Special work rights,special marriage rights,special rights concerning crimes,special education rights,special rights while getting loans and morgages.The list goes on and on. No more special rights to the minorities! If all was equal for all there would be no need for monitoring and governing at that level. But it is not all equal so who is the hypocrit, the American who wants equality for all or the American who wants only equality for himself? I am a hypocrit because I say we should all be equal?I am not the one asking for special rights here! If you feel you are the hypocrit, so be it. I said who is the hypocrit? If having "special rights" is the only way to make the board more equal until people get over their own hypocrisies then so be it. I want equality for all not the priviledged. Give me a break.Martin luther king JR would be rolling in his grave.I can't see your logic when we have a black president,Oprah is billionaire,we have thousands of minority millionaire sports players,thousands of millionaire rap artist,and minorities in all forms of government,all forms of business,all forms of everything.They have all the rights and more than anyone else in this country.They don't need more. Would you mind telling me how we can possibly bend over more backwards for these people than we already have?We else could they possible want? How about a black president-Got it How about powerfull government positions-Powell head of defense Rice-Secretary to the president Ummm...they are the exception to the rule. Why does having a black President mean that we are bending over backwards for black people? That is so wrong! |
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Edited by
Foliel
on
Wed 04/29/09 11:41 PM
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the problem with majority rule is that if they had it their way no minority would have any rights. I don't have it backwards, I have it the way I have seen it done for decades.
When women fought for their rights...did people tell them to give the "i'm a victim" thing a rest? I'm sure they did, the men wouldn't have been too happy about it. There will always be people out there that feel like the victim and now the majority are starting to pull the "I'm a victim" crap that they tell the minorities to stop doing. I could give a rats ass about the right to marry, marriage to me is nothing more than a piece of paper that gives you rights you should have anyways, what I do care about is that majority has marriage while minority isn't allowed to marry someone of the same gender cuz majority says no. Sorry majority but you can't always have it your way. Majority and minority are starting to act like 2 spoiled brats left in a room together. they need to learn to play nice or the government will have to give them both a time out. I don't want to hear the I'm a victim speal any more than you do. Yet the majority is now playing that same song. I've been the victim, thank you, I stopped being the victim a long time ago. Why does the majority care so much about gay people having the right to marry? Because it goes against what they think is normal? Tell me, what exactly is normal? I can tell you that what's normal to you and to the majority is not normal to me. People have rights regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation or physical/mental capacity. No I do not have it backwards it's the whole human race that has it backwards. |
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Please check out the legal definition of fight words willing2. As for making it personal...you positions and politics are consistent and predictable for the most part. That is why I replied that I was not surprised. I am quite sure you yourself have looked just at a posters names, mine for instance, and guessed at their positions and politics based on previous posts so please...don't feel special. I am no more guilty of making it personal as you or anyone else is. I have been threatened publicly and privately on these boards and via mail on the site...even with disgusting physical violence. Those threats didn't surprise me either. Nor did they silence me. I have no wish to pick a personal fight with you. Yesterday is in the past.^^^^^ I am just stating fact. All is covered in the current laws already. Slander Assault, verbal and physical, including torture and murder. I just don't believe more legislation is needed. Again; Torture and murder are torture and murder. They can happen to anyone anytime. Ya' don't get tortured and murdered because the perp loves ya'. Both are hate crimes. No one group should be made extra special. |
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For a country who insists on equal rights for everyone they sure do a hypocrital job when it comes to the minorites.Special work rights,special marriage rights,special rights concerning crimes,special education rights,special rights while getting loans and morgages.The list goes on and on. No more special rights to the minorities! If all was equal for all there would be no need for monitoring and governing at that level. But it is not all equal so who is the hypocrit, the American who wants equality for all or the American who wants only equality for himself? I am a hypocrit because I say we should all be equal?I am not the one asking for special rights here! If you feel you are the hypocrit, so be it. I said who is the hypocrit? If having "special rights" is the only way to make the board more equal until people get over their own hypocrisies then so be it. I want equality for all not the priviledged. Give me a break.Martin luther king JR would be rolling in his grave.I can't see your logic when we have a black president,Oprah is billionaire,we have thousands of minority millionaire sports players,thousands of millionaire rap artist,and minorities in all forms of government,all forms of business,all forms of everything.They have all the rights and more than anyone else in this country.They don't need more. Would you mind telling me how we can possibly bend over more backwards for these people than we already have?We else could they possible want? How about a black president-Got it How about powerfull government positions-Powell head of defense Rice-Secretary to the president How about higher test scores on college exams because of race or color-Got that too How about prefence for jobs based on race and skin color-Affirmitive action You're half right. Only by the one drop rule is he able to claim the title, Black. He is half White. |
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There is an overlying problem that doesn't seem to be noticed. Our founding fathers came up with a justice system that was fair and honest. If you murdered someone, robbed a bank, raped a women, stole a horse, etc., you were tried by a jury of peers. If you were found guilty you were taken out to the hanging tree and disposed of as someone not belonging to the human race.
Lawyers were not able to make enough money on this process so they gradually changed the laws making the process more and more complicated. Some areas of the country would not convict a white in a crime against a black and that added additional pressure which mostly does not exist today. And no matter how complicated you make the system, you still end up in front of the same jury of peers. We developed a revolving door policy for criminals where you commit any number of felonies, spend a lot of time in the court system, spend a little time in the prison system, and start all over again. This system makes tons of money for the lawyers and wastes the time and morale of our police forces (not to mention billions of dollars of tax money). The hate crime bill just makes the system more complicated and exposes the flaws in the justice system. We should learn from the past instead of making a problem we created worse. Anyone who commits murder for any reason should be removed from society. |
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Edited by
adj4u
on
Thu 04/30/09 06:02 AM
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Please check out the legal definition of fight words willing2. As for making it personal...you positions and politics are consistent and predictable for the most part. That is why I replied that I was not surprised. I am quite sure you yourself have looked just at a posters names, mine for instance, and guessed at their positions and politics based on previous posts so please...don't feel special. I am no more guilty of making it personal as you or anyone else is. I have been threatened publicly and privately on these boards and via mail on the site...even with disgusting physical violence. Those threats didn't surprise me either. Nor did they silence me. I have no wish to pick a personal fight with you. Yesterday is in the past.^^^^^ I am just stating fact. All is covered in the current laws already. Slander Assault, verbal and physical, including torture and murder. I just don't believe more legislation is needed. Again; Torture and murder are torture and murder. They can happen to anyone anytime. Ya' don't get tortured and murdered because the perp loves ya'. Both are hate crimes. No one group should be made extra special. good luck willing i tried to make that point and then some with funding for this kind of crime in this thread http://mingle2.com/topic/show/220568 |
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Please check out the legal definition of fight words willing2. As for making it personal...you positions and politics are consistent and predictable for the most part. That is why I replied that I was not surprised. I am quite sure you yourself have looked just at a posters names, mine for instance, and guessed at their positions and politics based on previous posts so please...don't feel special. I am no more guilty of making it personal as you or anyone else is. I have been threatened publicly and privately on these boards and via mail on the site...even with disgusting physical violence. Those threats didn't surprise me either. Nor did they silence me. I have no wish to pick a personal fight with you. Yesterday is in the past.^^^^^ I am just stating fact. All is covered in the current laws already. Slander Assault, verbal and physical, including torture and murder. I just don't believe more legislation is needed. Again; Torture and murder are torture and murder. They can happen to anyone anytime. Ya' don't get tortured and murdered because the perp loves ya'. Both are hate crimes. No one group should be made extra special. good luck willing i tried to make that point and then some with funding for this kind of crime in this thread http://mingle2.com/topic/show/220568 I keep in mind; Anything Gov. puts it's hands on is generally not in the interest of the people, no matter who they are. |
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yah no more special rights...just let the majority trample all over the minorities. Of course this will include special rights that extend to religions, ethnicities, sexual orientations, handicapped people, and the list goes on. Take all the rights away and just let the majority decide for them what's in their best interest...and while you're at it how about you click your heels together and say there's no place like home...... ( note the obvious sarcasm lol) If the death of matthew shapherd was due to drugs/alcohol, why did the boys target a known gay man? Why did their gfs admit, under oath, that they said they were going to rob a GAY man? Nope it wasn't a hate crime, they premeditated to rob a gay man from the get go but its not a hate crime. You got it backwards bub.The minorites are trampling over the majority.I don't think you should have special rights because of your skin color,gender,or sexual status. So what???A gay man was killed because he was gay.So what?Millions of people have been killed for all sorts of reasons.People have been killed simply for wearing a blue shirt in a town full or red shirt gang members.People have been killed for flipping someone off in a car. The gay agenda and how they are the victim all the time is getting old.Give it a rest. SO WHAT? A CHRISTIAN WAS KILLED BECAUSE HE WAS CHRISTIAN. SO WHAT? THE CHRISTIAN AGENDA AND HOW THEY ARE THE VICTIM ALL THE TIME IS GETTING OLD. GIVE IT A REST. STILL DON'T GET IT YET DO YOU, THOMAS? |
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Edited by
Winx
on
Thu 04/30/09 06:45 AM
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There's a short news clip to watch too.
A Shared St. Louis: Hate crimes 10:33 PM CDT on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 (KMOV)- In A Shared St. Louis, we all feel the impact of hate. News 4's Craig Cheatham reports it can have devastating consequences when it becomes the reason for committing a crime. The history of hate in America runs deep and wide, even now claiming thousands of victims every year. A decade ago, three drunk white men in Jasper, Texas beat 49-year old James Byrd, a disabled black man, chained him to their pickup and literally tore Byrd's body apart as they dragged him to his death. In 1996, the Collinsville, IL, home of Harriett Cannida-Groce and her husband Joseph was firebombed by a white neighbor who attacked the couple because of their inter-racial marriage. The attack nearly killed their three children. The neighbor was convicted and sentenced to 30 years in prison. Although that kind of incident is very unusual, there have been physical assaults, attacks on places of worship and hateful messages delivered in the metro-area in recent years. That hate must be motivated by something specific about the victims: race, religion, national origin. Federal law does not recognize sexual orientation as a Hate Crime category, many states including Missouri and Illinois, include sexual orientation in state law. In 2006, law enforcement agencies reported 9,080 Hate Crimes to the FBI. There were 4,700 incidents based on race. 66% of the race-based incidents were targeted at African-Americans 22% involved White victims 19% of the cases involved victims of religion-based Hate Crimes, the overwhelming majority were Jews 15% of the incidents were related to the victim's sexual orientation. Nearly all of the Hate Crimes reported in 2006 were almost evenly split among damage to property, assault and intimidation. (Vandalism-32%, Assault-32%, Intimidation-28%) There were three murders and six rapes that were also classified as Hate Crimes. The Hate Crime statistics are based on reports local police filed with the FBI. More than 80% of the police agencies in the United States failed to send the FBI reports last year. Illinois and Missouri law enforcement fell on opposite ends of the scale. 75% of Illinois' police departments filed reports. That’s more than four times the cooperation from Missouri police departments. In addition, many recent immigrants, especially those from brutal dictatorships, are reluctant to report Hate Crimes to police. Although most victims are African-American, the most likely victims are Jews, who are the targets of Hate Crimes at nearly double the rate of Blacks. Some victims used the Hate Crime as a reason to move, but many others, including the Groce family, decided to stay, it was after all their neighborhood too. http://www.kmov.com/justposted/stories/kmov_localnews_080826_shared.169b3f0f.html |
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There's a short news clip to watch too. A Shared St. Louis: Hate crimes 10:33 PM CDT on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 (KMOV)- In A Shared St. Louis, we all feel the impact of hate. News 4's Craig Cheatham reports it can have devastating consequences when it becomes the reason for committing a crime. The history of hate in America runs deep and wide, even now claiming thousands of victims every year. A decade ago, three drunk white men in Jasper, Texas beat 49-year old James Byrd, a disabled black man, chained him to their pickup and literally tore Byrd's body apart as they dragged him to his death. In 1996, the Collinsville, IL, home of Harriett Cannida-Groce and her husband Joseph was firebombed by a white neighbor who attacked the couple because of their inter-racial marriage. The attack nearly killed their three children. The neighbor was convicted and sentenced to 30 years in prison. Although that kind of incident is very unusual, there have been physical assaults, attacks on places of worship and hateful messages delivered in the metro-area in recent years. That hate must be motivated by something specific about the victims: race, religion, national origin. Federal law does not recognize sexual orientation as a Hate Crime category, many states including Missouri and Illinois, include sexual orientation in state law. In 2006, law enforcement agencies reported 9,080 Hate Crimes to the FBI. There were 4,700 incidents based on race. 66% of the race-based incidents were targeted at African-Americans 22% involved White victims 19% of the cases involved victims of religion-based Hate Crimes, the overwhelming majority were Jews 15% of the incidents were related to the victim's sexual orientation. Nearly all of the Hate Crimes reported in 2006 were almost evenly split among damage to property, assault and intimidation. (Vandalism-32%, Assault-32%, Intimidation-28%) There were three murders and six rapes that were also classified as Hate Crimes. The Hate Crime statistics are based on reports local police filed with the FBI. More than 80% of the police agencies in the United States failed to send the FBI reports last year. Illinois and Missouri law enforcement fell on opposite ends of the scale. 75% of Illinois' police departments filed reports. That’s more than four times the cooperation from Missouri police departments. In addition, many recent immigrants, especially those from brutal dictatorships, are reluctant to report Hate Crimes to police. Although most victims are African-American, the most likely victims are Jews, who are the targets of Hate Crimes at nearly double the rate of Blacks. Some victims used the Hate Crime as a reason to move, but many others, including the Groce family, decided to stay, it was after all their neighborhood too. http://www.kmov.com/justposted/stories/kmov_localnews_080826_shared.169b3f0f.html Good points Winx, but making the laws more complicated actually makes it easier for a criminal to get off. A jury has to decide "intent" which is extremely difficult to prove. It also puts the prosecution in the position of convincing the jury that they knew what was in the mind of the accused. This situation, by definition, creates a form of "thought police". Putting the maximum possible penalty on murder, rape, and the other mentioned crimes keeps it fair and simple. Someone who's family member was killed just wants justice. Does it really matter if the killer needed drug money or disagreed with the victim's beliefs? |
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There's a short news clip to watch too. A Shared St. Louis: Hate crimes 10:33 PM CDT on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 (KMOV)- In A Shared St. Louis, we all feel the impact of hate. News 4's Craig Cheatham reports it can have devastating consequences when it becomes the reason for committing a crime. The history of hate in America runs deep and wide, even now claiming thousands of victims every year. A decade ago, three drunk white men in Jasper, Texas beat 49-year old James Byrd, a disabled black man, chained him to their pickup and literally tore Byrd's body apart as they dragged him to his death. In 1996, the Collinsville, IL, home of Harriett Cannida-Groce and her husband Joseph was firebombed by a white neighbor who attacked the couple because of their inter-racial marriage. The attack nearly killed their three children. The neighbor was convicted and sentenced to 30 years in prison. Although that kind of incident is very unusual, there have been physical assaults, attacks on places of worship and hateful messages delivered in the metro-area in recent years. That hate must be motivated by something specific about the victims: race, religion, national origin. Federal law does not recognize sexual orientation as a Hate Crime category, many states including Missouri and Illinois, include sexual orientation in state law. In 2006, law enforcement agencies reported 9,080 Hate Crimes to the FBI. There were 4,700 incidents based on race. 66% of the race-based incidents were targeted at African-Americans 22% involved White victims 19% of the cases involved victims of religion-based Hate Crimes, the overwhelming majority were Jews 15% of the incidents were related to the victim's sexual orientation. Nearly all of the Hate Crimes reported in 2006 were almost evenly split among damage to property, assault and intimidation. (Vandalism-32%, Assault-32%, Intimidation-28%) There were three murders and six rapes that were also classified as Hate Crimes. The Hate Crime statistics are based on reports local police filed with the FBI. More than 80% of the police agencies in the United States failed to send the FBI reports last year. Illinois and Missouri law enforcement fell on opposite ends of the scale. 75% of Illinois' police departments filed reports. That’s more than four times the cooperation from Missouri police departments. In addition, many recent immigrants, especially those from brutal dictatorships, are reluctant to report Hate Crimes to police. Although most victims are African-American, the most likely victims are Jews, who are the targets of Hate Crimes at nearly double the rate of Blacks. Some victims used the Hate Crime as a reason to move, but many others, including the Groce family, decided to stay, it was after all their neighborhood too. http://www.kmov.com/justposted/stories/kmov_localnews_080826_shared.169b3f0f.html Good points Winx, but making the laws more complicated actually makes it easier for a criminal to get off. A jury has to decide "intent" which is extremely difficult to prove. It also puts the prosecution in the position of convincing the jury that they knew what was in the mind of the accused. This situation, by definition, creates a form of "thought police". Putting the maximum possible penalty on murder, rape, and the other mentioned crimes keeps it fair and simple. Someone who's family member was killed just wants justice. Does it really matter if the killer needed drug money or disagreed with the victim's beliefs? agreed. I understand what a hate crime is..but shouldn't all lives be worth the same? |
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The reality is that people only care about certain crimes that they feel can move forward their agendas.
How many of you that support this bill know the names of any of the gay men Jeffrey Dahmer butchered? Did their lives mean less because Dahmer wasn't a heterosexual male? What about Andrew Cunnanan? What drove him to the cross country killing spree, that ended with him killing Versace? Hate? I didn't see anyone clamoring for hate crimes legislation. What about the prostitutes that the Green River Killer murdered? Shouldn't there be a law protecting prostitutes? Or are they not worth as much? |
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The laws should be clear, murder is murder doesn't matter about anything else, the problem with hate crimes is that they normally do it just because they don't like you or something about you.
The only reason those boys killed matthew shepherd is that they were planning to rob a gay man. They targeted someone that was gay. I would have been just as outraged if they had targeted soemone because of race, gender, religion or one of the other many things out there. Not everyone has an agenda, i may be gay but i do not always agree with what gay people sometimes do. I did not agree with them crashing a church service, that did not help the gay plight, that just made it worse. People should pay for crimes regardless of the reason they comitted it but what happens if they only had one reason for doing it? Jeffery Dahmer was a sick twisted individual and is paying for his crimes, I do not know alot about Versace so can't say much on that, I would support a bill that covers any kind of crime. BTW his first murder was a hitchhiker named steven hicks, then steven toumi and anthony sears. He committed many murders on his spree until he was finally caught and brought to justice. |
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foliel....I agree with you. I am looking at it from a mom's point of view too. my son's life is just as special as anyone's and everyone should get the same justice
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So if we are just going to call murder murder should we then not say why the crime was committed? Should we not know that it was motivated by hatred of gays or of women or whatever?
To me that is all this is about, adding gays to what's already on the list, Women, disabled etc. Whats the big deal with gays are on the damn list. Should'nt it be made clear that it will not be tolerated happening to gays as well. Because we know damn well that some religious and other folks don't think beating the hell out of some gay person is a bad thing. I mean if we aren't willing to add gay then maybe we should take women off the list, or take the disabled off the list. Yes it's too bad we have to clarify but some morons in this world seem to need it in writing. To me it's the Right that doesn't want gays added, how will they be able to say the rotten things they say if we are on the list of nono's. |
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The reality is that people only care about certain crimes that they feel can move forward their agendas. How many of you that support this bill know the names of any of the gay men Jeffrey Dahmer butchered? Did their lives mean less because Dahmer wasn't a heterosexual male? What about Andrew Cunnanan? What drove him to the cross country killing spree, that ended with him killing Versace? Hate? I didn't see anyone clamoring for hate crimes legislation. What about the prostitutes that the Green River Killer murdered? Shouldn't there be a law protecting prostitutes? Or are they not worth as much? I wish you would realize that we aren't the only ones with a so called agenda here. The christian right has an agenda too, and they most of all would be against this, they don't want us to ever be in a position where we are considered normal, and this would legitimize us in a way that frightens them. Tell me you are not aware of that, and I will direct you to christian sites that will tell you just that, but I think you already know it. Our agenda is to be respected as any other person, period. Not singled out by Religion. |
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So, all murder is the same eh? No special circumstances should apply?
They already do after all and I don't see people trying to abolish those laws. Murder under special circumstances, murder in the commission of a crime, 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree murder, manslaughter, self defense, etc... So, you say there is no need for special circumstances or charges? Is the murder of a child during the commission of a rape is the same as improperly maintaining your car, crashing and causing a death? According to the logic of some posters it is. Special circumstances allow prosecutors, jurors, the public and judges to more fully understand the scope, motivation and circumstances of a crime and therefor the correct or most fitting punishment for the crime. Anyone so simple minded that they cannot understand that really ought to give the hell up and go live in a cave. |
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