You are absolutely correct. It is too bad I say. What if she had lived a few more years undisturbed by such atrocities? What would we could have perhaps learned from this brilliant woman?


not to mention all the knowledge lost in the Great Library...
some reasons given for it's destruction:
theorized that humans are animals, just more sophisticated than the rest of the animals
mathematically proved that the Earth went around the Sun
mathematically proved that the Earth was round
commonly held belief among it's scientists that slavery was wrong, and women should be treated as equals

dangerous stuff for those early christians...

The Great Library is the most disturbing. I mean what knowledge could we be missing out on?

I wish I knew

since most of that knowlege (that we know of) wasn't discovered again until 1100 to 1500 yrs later, and since science climbes at a geometric progression, one can assume either the human species would've exstinquished itself by now or we'd be flying among the stars. I'd love to have a time machine, save the library, and find out which.

It appears Christians have always been more twisted in their thinking that I had even originally know about. Makes me literally sick to my stomach to read this stuff. And yet why are so many christians even today so unaware of the history of Christianity.

Oh that's easily answered. Ignorance is bliss.

I am not done yet. It is a slow process and hard to digest.

We shall continue...


CHRONOLOGY:

587AD - Missionaries start converting the Visigoths in Spain to Christianity.

589AD - Lombard King and Queen begin their conversion to Christianity, shortly thereafter they impose Christianity upon their kingdom and the population within it and became the official and supreme religion to the exclusion of all others.

601AD - Augustine convinced the English Christian king Ethelbert to destroy the Heathen temples and idols and repress Heathen worship. Missionaries were sent to the West Saxons.

626AD - King Edwin of Northumbria and his court are converted to Christianity

634AD - The completion of the conversion of the Kingdom of Northumbria

635AD - Cynegils, king of Wessex, is converted to Christianity

640AD - The newly Christianized Eorcenberth of Kent orders the destruction of temples dedicated to Odin

653AD - The Kingdom of Essex is converted to Christianity

654AD - Penda, the last heathen king in Mercia England is killed. The Mercians were then forced into conversion to Christ by the sordid son of Penda, prince Peada, who converted to Christ because he wished to take his daughter as his wife and his own native faith of Asatru prevented it.

664AD - The Synod of Whitby determines the correct manner in which the date of the newly Christianized heathen celebration of Easter is to be calculated, It's date is henceforth moved to be in line with the Jewish passover.

686AD - Wessex England, the last true Heathen kingdom in England is finally converted to Christianity.

690AD - Willibrord, the first major Anglo-Saxon missionary to try to sell Christianity on the shores of Germania arrives in Frisia. Willibrord tried to erase all signs of heathendom, He destroyed many heathen temples and sacred forests,

695AD - Willibrord was rewarded for his deeds and appointed bishop of Utrecht. He ordered a cathedral to be built there, and restored a destroyed Frankish church. In 714, the Frisian king Radboud and his armies drove a way the Christian intruders but Willibrord managed to escape, his churches were burnt and his priest were killed. The newly liberated Frisians again worshipped their ancient gods, and rebuilt their heathen temples.

715AD - Benedictine monk Winfrith (the future St.Boniface) begins his missionary work in Germany. St.Boniface believed that converting the heathen people couldn’t be done by merely an unending power of faith and convincing, but faith had to be imposed and maintained by the force and power of the state.
At Eschwege he is said to have destroyed a statue of the Gods. Boniface then had to return to Hessia to repair the losses which occurred during his absence, many having drifted back to their native religion.

719AD - St.Boniface toured Bavaria, Alamannia, and Thuringia. He found that the population had reverted to their native heathen religion of Asatru. Duke Gotzbert and some years later his son, Hethan II, had been martyred on account of their injudicious zeal in trying to spread Christianity.

725AD - St.Bonface desecrates and cuts down the ancient Donar (Thor) Oak Tree near Fitzlar, Hesse. Subsequently the Pope appoints St.Boniface the metropolitan of Germany for his "good" work in spreading Christianity.

746AD - The Christian Frankish Duke Karlmann murdered thousands of Heathen Alemannic Germans in what became known as the "Blood bath of Cannstadt"

750AD - The Saxons avenged themselves upon their Christian aggressors by invading France and sacking 30 monasteries.

772AD - Charlemagne begins his 30 year genocidal war against the Heathen Germans to convert them to Christianity. He destroys their sacred temples, holy groves, and cuts down the sacred tree Irminsul. (Charles earned his honourific title of "The Great" - le mange - from Christian historians for spreading Christianity by force, brutality and murder). Charlemagne imposed a tithe on all Christians in his kingdom to further support the spread of Christianity by militaristic means.

774AD - Charlemagne annexes the Lombard kingdom, expanding his territories by force in the name of the church.

777AD - Widukind, the duke of Saxony and the chief antagonist of Charlemagne during the Saxon Wars, was forced to flee north to his wife's relatives in Denmark. Thus, by this date, the Danes become fully aware of the threat of Charlemagne and Christianity. When Charlemagne went to Spain in 778, Widukind returned and revived the rebellion, and the Saxons raided Frankish regions.

785/6 AD - The Saxon duke Widukind was subdued by Christian invaders. In order to preserve his Folk from further genocide he submitted to a nominal Baptism at Charlemagne's hands. Immediately afterwards, the VIKING RAIDS begin in 787 with the Norse raid on the monestary on Portland in Dorset (Southern England). (*Archeology and Dendro-chronology prove that already by this time the Danish kingdom had constructed the earliest layers of the great wall of Denmark the "Danevirke" or "Dane's Work" -- to guard against Frankish Christian encroachment.

782AD - Charlemagne has 4500 heathen Saxon German nobles executed at Verden, for the crime of not converting to Christ.

804AD - Charlemagne’s wages his last war against the last remaining heathen Saxons, he succeeds in conquering them and forcing them to nominally accept Christianity under pain of death, and thus extends his empire to the Elbe.

829AD - Christian missionaries arrive in Sweden. They are met with a lot of opposition from the heathen Vikings and the Sami who did not wish to convert to Christ.

870AD - Harold the Fair-haired conquers Norway in the name of Christ with fire and sword, and got his nick name because he made a vow to not cut his hair until he had killed, or driven out every heathen in Norway.
Iceland is colonized primarily by heathen Norwegian refugees that were being persecuted and killed by the newly converted Christian king Harold. Olaf later sends Christian missionaries to Iceland to convert and baptize a number of influential men, but they had to leave in a hurry after the missionaries killed several men for slandering their Christian God. Olaf threatened to maim or kill all Icelanders in his realm when he heard how much resistance there was to Christianity.

882AD - Ludvig III, the King of both West-Frankish and East-Frankish kingdoms, dies in his religious wars against the heathens from the north.

964AD - King Harold of Denmark is baptized at Mainz, Germany. He then returns to his country with missionary monk Ansgar to spread and enforce Christianity upon his own people.

993AD - Olaf Tryggvason becomes first Christian king of Norway. Undeterred by the obstinate resistance of the people, Olaf forces Christianity upon his people by threats, murder, and torture.... including having members of the heathen priesthood tied up and left on a shallow rocky reef at flood tide, a long and terrible wait for death.

994AD - Olaf Skotkonung, king of Sweden accepts Christianity and declares it to be Swedens' official religion, with no other religions allowed. The people who refused to convert to Christ were removed from their land, beaten and / or killed. Heathen temples were destroyed and had Christian churches built in their place.

1000AD - Iceland decrees by law that Christianity will be the official religion of the island. Although heathenism is still allowed, it can only be practiced in private as public displays of the old faith are made illegal and punishable by law.

1012AD - First persecution of "Christian heretics" in Germany for deviating from the Christian Churches' official dogma.

1018AD - Olav II Haraldsson, (St Olav) annihilated the petty kings of the Southern Norway, and crushed the aristocracy to enforce the acceptance of Christianity throughout the kingdom of Norway, including the Orkney and Shetland Islands.

1100AD - Zealous Christian missionaries destroy the great heathen temple at Old Uppsala in Sweden, replacing it with a Christian church

1100AD - 1200 - On Church orders over 2 million German men and Women in what is known today as Austria, Switzerland and Southern Germany were mercilessly slaughtered because they would not convert to Christ.

1212AD - "The Children's Crusade" 50,000 German and French children are torn from their families and pressed into military service in the Middle East. Many died miserably of violence, Hunger, Sickness. Few ever returned home to their families.

1234AD - Over 10,000 German men, Women, and Children were killed at the command of the Bremen archbishop because they were "heritics".

1525AD - After almost a thousand years of Christianity first reaching England’s shores, the Bible is first translated to English by William Tyndale, before this date the religious authorities made it a punishable crime to translate the Latin Bible into English because it was felt that the English people should not be able to read it for themselves

1560AD - The Bible is first translated to German by Marten Luther, previous to this it was an illegal and punishable offense to allow the common person to be allowed to read the Bible for themselves.

1100AD - 1200 - On Church orders over 2 million German men and Women in what is known today as Austria, Switzerland and Southern Germany were mercilessly slaughtered because they would not convert to Christ.


These are my people! I am proud they resisted. I am sad they were slaughtered because of their refusal to convert.

Some of the things your posting, is just simply neutral and/or Christian History (good side).

Like missionaries preaching, people translating things for the first time, etc. etc. None of that is bad. And in many ways it's very good.

But the brutal slaughtering of many people "in the name of God", is disgusting but I think at the end of the day, look at the leader, not his followers.

There are plenty of Buddhists (and any other "peaceful" religion; and/or belief system [non-religious]) that murdered people in the name of their belief system. Socialism, capitalism, etc. Evolution. Science. Etc.

I think the best way to look at things is, no matter what group of people your agreeing with. There are many things in their belief system that are horrible and chaotic.

Side note: Great snippet of Church History, I just wish you cited your sources though. :D

@Abracadabra

What? What is your basis for this idea? There is nothing recorded, during the time of Christ that even implies anything remotely close to this.

If Jesus was just a peaceful nice guy, the Jews wouldn't have plead to have Him killed/crucified. (This is ***nothing*** against the Jews but the Jews rejected the notion that Jesus of Nazareth, son of Mary, was the Messiah and they thought it was shameful (and punishable by death) to claim such things).



I absolutely agree. :(

Please mention the many Buddhists that you claim have murdered in their religion or philosophy.

Also show me how Buddhism philosophy outweighs Christian or any of the mediterrenean belief systems on atrocities.

Actually, there is a chapter in Hitchen's "G-d is not great" which deals with just such a thing in the Eastern religions. I would quote it for you, but alas it is swimming somewhere in the cushions of my couch and I am a lazy slob.

Does it outweight the many atrocities the mediterrenean mythologies offer?

If not then perhaps eastern philosophy doesn't show such contradictions as for example a koran, bible, or torah offers.

With that being said one should ask in general (not you of course) if the morales of such mediterrenean mythologies should be taken in consideration or if the eastern philosophies are actually better suggestions in that perspective.

I would take eastern philosophies over any mediterrenean mythologies anytime.

Of course this is not to the likings of most people in America, but fortunately I have a choice in today's society in expressing how I feel about this and what I can choose to take that is better for my personal happiness or anyone who talks to me about it.

I don't think anything can compare with the ugliness of monotheism.

I agree 100% with you

- I've read about ~10 people that slayed people, that were Buddhist. Now, I'd love to quote a source but sadly, I can't find them. Probably because it was years ago, before I realized Web Browsers could bookmark things. :(



- If there is a score card. My issue is who can judge? If you judge by the followers, sure Buddhism my be "better" than a monotheistic belief. If you judge by the leader, I'm sure you'd come up with a different assessment.

You find what your seeking and it seems your seeking a non-Christian belief system. Finding each spot and blemish to say, "Look it's fallible".

You crusade in anger, against other beliefs. I doubt the "great Buddha" taught this, actually from some Buddhist friends, he taught tolerance of others beliefs. So...I hope your not Buddhist, cause then your going against some of your own teachings... (this is the same "sin" that Christians commit all the time.)

The only one who speak of crusades are christians as you do now assuming that is what I am doing with this thread. I am clearly showing history of what christians have done so far with mankind. It threatens there already losing members as it is. The reason why so many denominations are evolving today because they don't agree in what the bible says. If you feel christianity or any of their denominations have morales to teach and that everyone should practice them, then you will obviously find many around the world who will disagree with you.

With that being said I do like the philosophy of Buddhism as of other spiritual belief systems that has shown far less atrocities, misunderstandings, and problems as a whole. I don't belong to any social organizations and am quiet happy with what I believe in personally. For all I care it can be called individualism. In this individualism no one needs to follow a organization or any religious cult or rules to live a great life. If anything one can call me a humanatarian also for I have truly practiced this profession for over 15 years travelling to many countries helping those who are less fortunate. My personal beliefs also don't condem any for not believing in what I do or believe in. Unlike the Bible, Koran, or Judaism where one gets clearly punished for not following its writings. Concerning judging or judgements I would clearly look into your monotheistic belief system and its history. You will have plenty to study on this. I also don't believe that I am born as a sinner or have to feel guilty for any of my actions. Either one does a mistake in life and learns from it to do a better job or they don't and get punished by humans for them. No god will throw me to hell because of mistakes humans do.


If you deem that christianity is something you will enjoy and must follow then so be it. I am not here to convert anyone. I am only shedding my beliefs. When I post such threads I don't post them in anger but actually in sadness. It is very depressing to see many christians follow a belief system that has done so many atrocities because of following what the bible says. I don't see buddhism killing people because their scriptures say so. There is a difference.

Today Christians still judge people if they don't follow their order and instructions their bible tells them. Look at Mormonism, Baptism, Evangelists, Protestants, Jehovah Witness, Congregationalists, and the other 20 or more christian organizations who continue to fight with each other disagreeing on a whole what is right or wrong in the bible and how one should live a life.

Having a relation with a supernatural being comes in many forms. One doesn't have to believe in the christian way to reach that. One can believe in whatever they personally deem is good. Also there are a great many atheists who do great philanthropist activities doing mankind great favors and rewards without having to believe in anykind of god. One doesn't even have to follow a religion to do good acts.

Concerning the 10 people who were buddhists slaying people compared to the hundreds of thousands of christians killing people in its history then there is a big difference. It is a no brainer which belief system shows more intelligence, wisdom, and peaceful solutions as a whole concerning mankind.

As for me Christianity, Muslim, and Judaism each belong in the vault locked away and labeled mediterrenean mythology. Fortunately many of the younger generations are doing this today.

Wow. What a loaded response Smile. :)



Yea. I got that. But no one has a perfect history. Mankind can be very even, no matter what banner they promote (Christianity, Buddhism, etc)



Yes, but some of it's not negative. Evangelism isn't evil. It's just promoted by flawed people with differing motives. <<This is in the general sense, not just Christianity, think marketing a company, it's not evil but the motives behind the person promoting it might be off/wrong/evil, or think any religion that promotes itself.



I have to respectfully disagree. Catholicism is on a major decline but Pentecostalism is almost larger than Catholicism and still growing fast. I'm not saying "one is right", I'm just saying certain sects maybe declining but the majority is still growing (outside of the US; China has more Christians [Pentacostals] than the US has.)

Now, about the China remark. It's an underground church that is very vast in it's reach. True miracles, powerful things, only seen in the Bible are there. Is it a perfect church? No. They get thrown in jail because the government doesn't like it (Christianity).



Yes/no. Yes. No because some people make a new denomination because they just didn't like the pastor. Or they didn't like 1 simple issue.

This doesn't mean anything, other than there are differing views on things. Many people don't realize that the Bible is about Jesus and how we should emulate Him. It's not an encyclopedia or in lawyer talk. It doesn't answer every question. Nor is it 100% clear. But Jesus said only 3 things matter. Love God (Jesus). Love others (and enemies). Love fellow Christians.

I think at the end of the day, we can both agree, Christendom received a: n/a (Love God; can't really know) F (Love others/enemies) and F (Love fellow Christians).



I think your missing something. Treat others as you want to be treated (that in the New Testament; known as the Golden Rule). I don't think anyone can disagree unless they are just screwed up. lol.



Now, my view may sound weird and new. But it's not. Church history backs me (a little). Hell isn't a place of literal fire, if it is, then it's not the worst part of hell. Heaven isn't the place where everything is perfect.

Hell is simply the absence of Jesus. Heaven is simply the presence of Jesus. Jesus=God=Love, heaven is just the full experience behind the being of our maker. Euphoria.

The torment of hell is deep remorse because now your separated from your Maker.

I'm of the belief that God is God. He is SOOO far beyond us, that explaining "why this and not that" is impossible. He is the author, from beginning to end.

I believe in hell (Jesus was the one who spoke about it the most...) and heaven (The Book of Revelation speaks most about this).

But, I'm working out my faith. I don't promote it. I don't evangelize. I don't even go to church. I pursued becoming a pastor but have side-tracked because of recent life situations (let's just say my faith was shaken).



Me 2. :)



Yes it is. But your being negative about the past. And your only looking at one side. Have you ever eaten peanut butter? A Christian (president) was the one who invented that and thousands of other things (from the peanut) that are STILL beneficial to society. Christianty brought education to many of the poor and partly (PARTLY!!!!! not fully, WE ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION, NOR WERE WE FOUNDED AS ONE; sorry for the caps but I try not to be naive and actually try to look things up.) why America is the country as it is today.

Also, you might say America is a horrible nation. If you strictly base that on your thought-logic, in the quote above. Slavery. More Powerful Drugs. Started Wars. Etc.



I wish I had saved those sources. But either way. I know what you mean.



Pet Peeve: Smile.. My pet peeve is Americans using the word "Judge" as if it was a bad term. Judging isn't bad. What about our legislation? Judging is simply deciding if something is positive (good) or negative (bad). Or innocent or guilty.

If you've been judged, doesn't mean anything bad. It just means someone decided something about you.

/pet peeve.



Sad thing is there is like 100,000+. :(((



I agree but.....I would say, your missing out on the FULL experience of God, by rejecting the real Jesus.



And sadly some of them out work some Christians. :(



It might one day. Especially if the brands/religions continue to not solve their brand issues. I don't think the Jews have done too much damage (except BC). But Christians and Muslims have the worst history. :( Especially since they fight each other throughout it.

I'd honestly encourage you to look to Jesus. Not the people. Like, you know in your family (everyone has one, I think, unles you have a perfect family), where there is that "person" you don't want to say is your brother/cousin but ...the truth is... THEY ARE. That's how the history of Christianity makes me feel. IT IS apart my MY history, not matter how much I hate it.

Look at Jesus and the early church (before the Bible was complied) and you'll see a great organization. You'd be surprised at what you see. Some of the early church writings, you'll NEVER hear in a church, just because it's very frank and in your face about things (not hell and such, but in honesty and wisdom).

To quote the great Jethro Tull:

"If Jesus saves, then he better save himself
From the gory glory seekers, that would use his name in death"

I agree with you on that.

First we have to talk about the Golden Rule that you claim christians came with first. I would look into Eastern philosophy and you will see that the golden rules actually started there. Don't do that what you don't want done to you was practiced way before Judaism even existed. Research it and you will find it interesting.

Concerning Jesus I believe he was in India or in that area who must have seen a culture with a different philosophy on how to treat one another as a whole. I say this for no one knows where he was in his missing years. Most people followed the old testament at the time and believed that such laws as stoning children on the street when they didn't listen to their parents was justified. Jesus questioned those motives. He also questioned many things the old testament stated that made people at the time contemplate why the God of Abraham would make such harsh rules onto his people. When he came back from his missing years to teach a different idealogy to his people the Roman Emperor Constantine who thought he was a God at the time and the Jewish who followed the old testament felt threaten by Jesus's new idealogies and agreed together to nail him on a cross. Then the apostles who wrote the bible ensured that the old testament would be ressurrected because they were losing members as it is. With this being said they wrote exactly the opposite of what Jesus was teaching. Or would you consider that if a man rapes a woman and gets a baby from the raptist should also marry the man? Well the bible says you have to marry a raptist in this situation.

Mark Twain said:

It is not the scriptures that I don't understand that bother me but the lessons that I do understand that bothers me. (Not exact words, but same meaning)

So any sane man who would read the bible and agree on its morales should truly look at other sources of common sense then to follow the writings of men who restricted many of the freedoms that we cherish today. How a woman could even follow the rules of the bible has me bewildered also? They are restricted to even preach about the bible if you look into it.

With that being said I have personally visited China as a Red Cross Worker and have never seen the government forbid individiual civilians from practicing a religion or spiritual belief system that they deem to be good. I have met a Christian, many Buddhists, alot of Atheists, and Agnostics who each have their reasons why they choose to believe or not. They don't hide that either from the public and the government doesn't forbid it. Communism is hugely misunderstood in America. Not that I support it, but people compare Communism with dictatorship. There is a difference you know.

I also never mention anything about (evil). Christians love to talk about evil and good vs demon and angel and what have you. I am only mentioning that such religions are bad for mankind. It is a personal belief that I have come to because of the history and how the religion brainwashes people to not be themselves. They brainwash people into believing something that no one knows. If one wants to be truthful about oneself or with others then the right answer would be is that we don't know if a God even exists. We don't know if a hell in whatever term or picture you want to see it or a heaven exists. Yes we have feelings and want to believe in something to sleep well at the end of the day, but that doesn't mean it really exists. So Agnotiscm would be a truthful answer we humans can say. I wouldn't let a book with such rules convince me that a Abrahamic God will smite people or punish them if they don't follow his ways. "There shall be no other god besides me" is mentioned in one of the quotes in the bible.

Well there you go no other religion should be practiced because it is not true many christians will say and they will back it up with the bible. Or do you deny this? Afterall my people where called heathens and infidels because we didn't follow the bible or refused to convert.

Concerning Jesus he was a human being (not the son of a god) who learned or observed a different idealogy and try to show his people a different approach on morales. Of course this was refuted and he was killed for it. I believe if he did ressurrect in today's times he would deeply be dissappointed that his teachings were misunderstood for everything in the bible about him is false and history shows it. He would mention on his first day that this is all wrong. This is not christianity this is the old testament rewritten all over again!

Now I didn't come to this conclusion because I am not aware of the writings of the bible. I have read the bible and even the Koran. I have been offered these books dozens of times when I travelled the world. I have conversated with scientists, archaelogists, teachers, historians, and theologists who all come to the same conclusions. I read biographies of famous politicians, inventors, and humantarians who also come to the same conclusion.

Christianity is not the most peaceful idealogy to follow. There are far more peaceful spiritual practices with less atrocities and misunderstandings that still exist today. Fortunately they still exist because Christianity hasn't thrawted them down yet.

Look into Native Indian Spirituality. A beautiful combination of wisdoms. It is sad however that many of the natives where forced to convert at the time, yet many still refuse to follow the religion and don't care if they are called heathens. They know that their spiritual faith is much more peaceful in the end.

So yes I do look up to Jesus as a humantarian. Not as the savior or someone we have to believe in to be saved. He was a man who had a big heart and was punished for it. If I was there at the time of event I would have tried to free him from the jail he was sitting in and would have somehow ensured his escape to a peaceful country so he wouldn't be nailed on a cross for what he believed to be true. I would hope also that all the followers that loved him would have followed also.

Who knows maybe then Christianity would have looked different with the true idealogies that people can live with? A religion that would have shown people to coexist in peace without the teachings of the Abrahamic God that the old testament enforces. If that would have happened I would most likely be a follower. That I guarantee.

Well good luck on your studies in Christianity, yet let me suggest you to actually study the history of other spiritual faith systems that were located in other parts of the world. You will be surprised how much more information they offer that will help you as a person understand that the bible is not the wisiest and most helpful morales one can look for.