The gay community does not want to take your religious liberty away. They simply want Separation of Church and State.

This makes it clear that religious denominations have a constitutional right to set their own rules about marriage but that civil law should reflect equal protection for all citizens and not be anchored in religious dogma.

“This will reaffirmed religious liberty. Religious groups are free to marry whomever they choose, but civil law cannot be based on any group’s theology.

“The court has recognized that civil marriage is the province of government and religious marriage is the province of the faith community”. “That’s what our constitutional principles mandate, and that’s the way it should be. Clergy are free to perform or decline to perform marriage ceremonies, while the government treats everyone equally when it comes to civil marriage.”

Civil marriage must be judged under our constitutional standards of equal protection and not under religious doctrines or the religious views of individuals. This approach does not disrespect or denigrate the religious views of many who strongly believe in marriage as a dual-gender union, but considers, as we must, only the constitutional rights of all people, as expressed by the promise of equal protection for all. We are not permitted to do less and would damage our constitution immeasurably by trying to do more.”

This also makes clear that a decision like this protects the rights of religious groups that oppose same-sex unions.

This gives respect to the views of all people on the issue of same-sex marriage religious or otherwise by giving respect to our constitutional principles.” These principles require that the state recognize both opposite-sex and same-sex civil marriage. Religious doctrine and views contrary to this principle of law are unaffected, and people can continue to associate with the religion that best reflects their views.

A religious denomination can still define marriage as a union between a man and a woman, and a marriage ceremony performed by a minister, priest, rabbi, or other person ordained or designated as a leader of the person’s religious faith does not lose its meaning as a sacrament or other religious institution.

This is important, as it debunks the common Religious Right argument that houses of worship will be forced to perform same-sex ceremonies.

“Religious Right scaremongers are trying to frighten clergy with bald-faced lies.

Civil law is what is at stake here. How can one deserve it more than another?

Regardlss of what you "believe" it does not make it right to leave out one sector of people over another.

Kat

When my son was in the Boy Scouts, I would have pulled him, or at least not allowed him to go on any over night outings if there were gays involved. Where do you think pervs after kids would find the easiest pickin's? Sorry, it is what it is, and too many crimes against kids as it is, so I protected him, same as I do his sister now. Dumped her "Big Sister" just because the broad wore so much make up she looked like a hooker. A bad influence is a bad influence.

scttrbrain,please explain to me why they can't just use another word for another concept.
I HAVE NEVER GOTTEN AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE ASKED.
Please explain to me why their lack of tolerance for others should even be allowed.
Please explain to me why anyone's double standards should be allowed.
Please explain to me what about this whole issue does NOT make them hysterical, hypcritical drama queens trying to bully BS.
Please explain to me why their attacks on straight people should be protected, but then anyone who responds in kind is condemned.

Excuse me?? You better do some chekin buddy. Almost all of the sex crimes in this America is done by heterosexual men! The one on boys is almost always by straight men. I am more afraid of straight men than I would ever be of a gay man. Gay men are not out to molest your son. But.....what of that male married neighbor next door?

Close minded people cause as much harm as any other. So now makeup makes one a hooker?

The real perves ar not the gay people here. Like I said; do some chekin.

Kat

The wording is "civil marriage". Not the same as the religious "marriage". The word marriage must be there to have the same standard rights.

I still cannot see what all the muck is about anyway? Marriage has become about in the moment lust and is over almost before it begins.

The noise you speak of is what it is. An attempt at being recognized as equal in a human world. The law says they are not.Or wait..it says they are...but it leaves them out quit conveniently for a religious purpose. Straight people want to spout equal rights and constitution when it comes to their own rights, but leave out those of different beliefs and lives.

Women went through that. Still are to an extent. They had to have an uprising to make way. Same with black people. They had to go through much the same thing. It wasn't that long ago that a white couldn't even marry a black person. It wasn't that long ago thast women couldn't vote. It was illegal.

Kat

LOL Ok, fine, so the 36 years, and thousands of kids, that I have worked with, gives me so little experience with them, and what happens to them, that I am going to defer to you LOL Not hardly. Have personal experience with kids that WERE raped by gay men, so spare me any inexperienced, uneducated opinions. Not going to be as rude as you were, but definitely going to disagree that anything a parent does to raise their kids properly, and harm free would be wrong.

I side with a defenseless child over a questionable adult EVERY TIME.

And yes, I do equate those painted faces with trashy morals, it is my choice.

I do find it interesting how you advocate taking such chances with children. Seems that gays should be protected OVER children in your opinion, but maybe I just read that one wrong. At any rate, we should simply agree to disagree, because no matter how long your posts are (will admit I don't bother reading all the tired out rhetoric that I have already debunked long ago, wish I kept the list of sites for you) I will never agree to the bullying double standards of gays, any more than I believe they are born gay.

kat
"The wording is "civil marriage". Not the same as the religious "marriage". The word marriage must be there to have the same standard rights."


NOPE

"I still cannot see what all the muck is about anyway? Marriage has become about in the moment lust and is over almost before it begins."

Perhaps, to you, but there are still those who take it VERY seriously, we are not all out to make this a nation of whores.

"The noise you speak of is what it is. An attempt at being recognized as equal in a human world."

NOPE AGAIN. We recognize them plenty LOL Don't even know how you get that idea.

" The law says they are not.Or wait..it says they are...but it leaves them out quit conveniently for a religious purpose."

Wouldn't that be along the lines of wanting church and state separate? Seems that gays want to argue whatever suits their agenda, even when they contradict themselves LOL

" Straight people want to spout equal rights and constitution when it comes to their own rights, but leave out those of different beliefs and lives."

IF you had just used the word "people" instead of "Straight people" we may have agreed. From where I am sitting, straights just want to be left alone, instead of having their world redefined by gays, per their sexual whims. I sure as heck don't like them shoving their sex lives down my throat like they are. I mean, ok fine, do what you want in PRIVACY (same shout out to straights who are slutty in public, no discrimination) but trying to force it on everyone else, no way.

"Women went through that. Still are to an extent. They had to have an uprising to make way."

Sooooooooooooooo not an appropriate analogy. The women's movement had to do with an entire gender, as in approximately, give or take, half the population. It had nothing to do with your sex life, which is pretty much the only thing the gay agenda is dealing with.

And yes, I did notice how you oh so conveniently dodged the legitimate questions I asked.

I ask you to please send me the links that show that these are indeed true? I mean it must be news worthy.

I do much research before I attempt at supporting any entity. I myself have boys...lots. I have reservations of straight men over gay men. I watched very closely any relationship between my boys and men. I have found that gay men are kinder and more trustworthy...in my opinion. A gay man is not out to rape an unwilling boy. They are not about control. Rape is almost always about hate and control.

Research....many gay guys have been molested in their own lives by straight men.

Gay mens lives have been turned upside down by closed minded fearful men that have issues.

Kat

Obviously, you have no interest in any opinion but your own, and I also see your ideas to be quite flawed. What else I notice, YOU COULDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION EITHER. Why? Because there is NO REASON why they should be allowed to force their hypocritical agenda, and be completely intolerant of others, by just using another word PERIOD.

Said like a true straight person that has no real knowledge about the gay community other than what they think they see.

As a gay person I am certainly not trying to take something away from someone else. But I also don't believe that straights have the exclusive right to the term either.

You don't believe gays were born gay? What? ARe you a doctor, a scientist? God maybe? Until you know that for a fact, it's a bit unreasonable to use it to dismiss the whole community.

Even if it were absolutely true that gays are not born gay, it's frankly NOYB. It's no secret that the Religious community would prefer people see it as a choice that came be changed as easily as changing shoes, that way they feel they have a legitimate reason to dismiss it.

Young people today are not different from past generations, except that they migh more easily be confused by what they see because no one ever explained anything to them before hand. But for a straight person to pretend to know.. hmmmmm.

It won't matter what gays decide might be an alternative, because the religious community is determined to make it impossible, period.

It's also interesting that you would expect RESPECT when you view others in the way that you do. Don't ask me to respect you while you call my life insignificant and depraved....

No, I won't join a group of angry gays to hunt you down or scream at you, but I certainly can't praise you for views based in ignorance either.

I couldn't just say "straight people", because I meant "straight people", what other people could there be? Oh..maybe "metro sexual", no orientation at all.

Please explain to me why their lack of tolerance for others should even be allowed.

What lack of tolerance?? I have never seen such a thing? If lack of tolerance means wanting the same legal rights as others? Being recognized as anyone else deserves? Gay people don't want to take anything away from straight people. Frankly they do not care. They do care about having the same as you think you should have.


Please explain to me why anyone's double standards should be allowed.

Double standards by gays? What?? The only double standards I can see are those with differing sexual orientations, "straight people". They want civil rights and constitutional rights for themselves but not for others who differ.

Please explain to me what about this whole issue does NOT make them hysterical, hypcritical drama queens trying to bully BS.

Try taking your "manly" rights away or your civil rights away...see how you act? Try living with someone taking your reasonable means away because you are less important to a communty. Because someone says so. Guns...people are spouting "civil and constitution" all over the place. But, to be gay? Hell no! I don't happen to believe having machine guns is good. But, does it mean I have a right to take that away from you? No.
Wanna see hysterical and hypocritical? Drama queens? Wanna see whining? Try taking those beloved weapons away from some people. It is their right and they will do whatever it takes to let it be known.
BS...I could care less about them. Really...it is a club. Just that. A boys club that says "boys are welcome unless you are not like them". It should say straight boys club. Other than that, it just says "
boys", no distinction from gay or straight. I am not knocking boy scouts. They can do whatever suits them.

Please explain to me why their attacks on straight people should be protected, but then anyone who responds in kind is condemned.

What attacks?? On what straight people? I have attended the parades. I have seen no such thing. I have been to rally's. I have seen no such thing. What I have seen is straight people intruding on their lives what they want and believe in. Attacking by bad words and hate filled actions. I have seen the gay community come together in quite and loving manners to have what they should have. Constitutional rights. I have seen clergy and bible thumping Christians hold bibles and say hateful and judgemental things. While the gay community stood there and let them do it without so much as a word in disrespect.
Have you ever heard of a gay person kidnapping and beating or even worse killing a straight person just because they are straight??

I cannot believe you would disregard a daughter because she wears too much makeup. That is beyond me.

I am not surprised that you feel as you do about something you know nothing about. I mean if makeup scares you....

Kat

Very well said scttrbrain. You completly answered every question and countered every point

Ah so too much make up makes you a hooker? Can't have that as a big sister.. I love how you assume that gay boys would automatically attack young straight boys.. Oh well this ignorance still exists and as long as it does this will be a fight.

Bad influence will be a bad influence, huh.. Wonder where my protection was from straight males in my youth inside and outside the religious family environment. Must have been that boys will be boys influence. I mean you know all men are pervs aren't they? Ugh

Warning!!! Sarcasm should be noted...

Here is the answer for some of us. Having to use another word still singles us out to be criticized for our lifestyle. The religious community knows this full well. They can easily say that the reason they use another word is because marriage is only for good Christian people, there by leaving the impression that we are some how evil..

Our lack of tolerance? If this is what you mean, please explain why we should endure your lack of tolerance which started further back?

You should be introduced to the Christians that hang out at gay events screaming and yelling like crazy people, and not the hysterical attitudes on the other side. Frankly I think that behavior on either side is a huge waste of time, but .....

Attacks on either side should not be protected but you seem to focus only on one side.

Ummm.....being gay does not mean that one is a pedophile. They are two different things.

Unfortunately many folks still believe that being gay means you are a pedophile, few seem to correct it when people say it, so it still goes around and around. Despite childhood sexual molestation by males, I never had the urge to do the same to males or females. Go figure.

Christian doctrine, as the other 'big club' religions, are 'exclusive' and 'divisive' by nature, in the deepest part of their primitive 'DNA'.

From the 'christian' paradigm, whether we practice according to cult or not, we all swim in these 'divisive' cultural waters where the notion of human rights only applies to 'US', whatever the 'US' turns out to be.

Christians ONLY understand 'christian rights', and so on and so forth.

Christians are trained to fight and defend those rights 'to death'. It's a basic 'bigotry from DNA 101' training.

HUMANS RIGHTS is what they perversely 'use' to deny other humans the rights that conflict with their dogmatic doctrine.

'... women shouldn't be given the right to vote, ... because it's always been an exclusive right exercised by men...' (past injustice for perspective)

Yeah right!!! That one sure hit a brick wall!

Just as the 'marriage exclusive' argument, claimed for the good christians, will hit the same wall.

Eventhough it may take time, history has shown us that 'human wisdom' prevails for humans over the long run, ... not christians or any other divisive mentality or sectarian dogma.

If there were no dogmatic and judging religious cults, feeding the barbaric compulsions of fear in people, there would NO GAY/STRAIGHT, NO BLACK/WHITE, NO BELIEVER/NON-BELIEVER, divisive walls.

JUST EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL HUMANS!!!

voil...a little generalizing isn't it?

Well, if you're game 'Yellowreose', I'm willing to argue the 'con' side of that statement with you.

You suggest I'm generalizing. Fair enough, make your case and I'll happily debate against that premise with you.

... all in good fun, ... and in good faith!!!

all I'm saying voil...is not all christians only understand "christians right"

i can see the rights of all people.