i'm specially interested on my non-believers brothers and sisters
inputs.
But please don't be derogatory, just tell me what you think,

she was no more than a vessel.
yes, extraordinary in the sense that she gave birth to Jesus Christ.
but i think even she would want no one to worship her,
but her Son.

She was only a virgin until Jesus was born.

Matthew 1:24-25
-------------------------------------------------------------
And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord
commanded him, and took Mary as his wife, but kept her a virgin until
she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.
-------------------------------------------------------------

She was also very faithful to God and probably a great mother.

I have no opinion on the blessed virgin.

She has become an aspect of a part of christian lore.

Other than that I have no knowledge as I am not a christian.

I would not mind learning more as she was the mother of a man that
became by his message the apex of prophets therefore she must have been
a special woman as her training would have helped form the man.

Anyone...

I am serious. I would like to know more of this womans essense as seen
through the eyes of those who hold her within their faith.

I have read what I could and found it to be dry historical data. This
in no way conveys what she must mean to one that practices their faith
with strength.

I belive she was only a vessel for jesus birth.

jesus had to come from the direct line of king david by the prophecies
and her and joseph her husband was drirect line of king david so there
the prophecies came true. I can make more reaserch but this is all I
remember. it's been 10 years since i whent to church cuz i cant find one
that suits me in my era.

Spider I have a question for you.

Does Jesus ever talk about his birth being a virgin one? I can't seem
to recall that in the bible.

You seem to be a likely source for this question, so I acuiese to you.

Personally, I don't buy the whole virgin deal. This is another of those
awful tests that one has to endure to have faith in a God who is asking
so much of creatures it is suppose to love unconditionally. Of course
it could be that these tests are necessary, perhaps there is only so
much room in heaven.

Redykeulous wrote:

Spider I have a question for you.

Does Jesus ever talk about his birth being a virgin one? I can't seem
to recall that in the bible.

You seem to be a likely source for this question, so I acuiese to you.

Personally, I don't buy the whole virgin deal. This is another of those
awful tests that one has to endure to have faith in a God who is asking
so much of creatures it is suppose to love unconditionally. Of course
it could be that these tests are necessary, perhaps there is only so
much room in heaven.

===========================================================================================
SpiderCMB replied:

No, Jesus never taught that. It is taught by the authors of the New
Testament, but not by Jesus. Jesus was offering instructions on how
people should live, he didn't teach about his childhood. At least, if
he did, it isn't recorded.

Believing that Jesus was born of a virgin isn't mentioned as a
requirement for salvation, but when you start to discount scripture that
you don't agree with or believe in, that is the path to the slippery
slope.

You are an athiest, right? So you beleive that life formed over
billions of years from naturally occuring maters on the planet? Or do
you beleive that life came from outer space? Either way, how is that
easier to believe than the "awful test" of believing that Jesus was born
from a virgin? Give me a turkey baster and a virgin and I'll show you a
virgin who gives birth, can you show me abiogenesis?

So God is an "it" now, is He?

i'm not sure how the virgin birth is a test...as i understand it, she
went on to have a normal marriage, sex included.

lulu24,

That's true of most Christians, but Catholics believe that Mary was
sinless and that she was a virgin her whole life. I'm not sure if they
believe that Joseph adopted Mary or if they believe that Mary and Joseph
had a sexless marriage. I was told by one Catholic that they believe
Mary Magdelene was Joseph's favorite protitute. But that's just hearsay
from a Catholic, I'm not sure if it is their doctrine. They have
gospels in their Bible that speaks to the near divine nature of Mary. I
was hoping that TheLonelyWalker would expound on Catholic views on Mary,
because I don't know too much on that subject.

People call her a religious Icon....... I say it is just like having a
photo. Just to honor for taking on the challenge and taking part in our
savior's arrival. That's all. I actually had a few nightmares about
her........ But then again, I am odd.

as a catholic, we hold that she is sinless...yes.

i've never been able to personally rectify that sex with your husband is
a sin, so maybe that part just doesn't...jive with me? historically,
it appears that she may have birthed other children...or maybe adopted
them. who really knows?

we pray to her as an intercessor, however...goodness knows i've had my
share of "hail mary"s to tell.

Sex with your spouse is not a sin. The Song of Solomon covers this.

I been to her house. Literally! Tradition holds that after the
Assumption, she traveled to Ephesus Turkey, where she was taken care of
by St. John until her death. Some traditions say she was "taken up" at
her death. Other traditions say she returned to Jerusalem and died
there.

It is interesting that Mary, as the mother of Jesus, is the only woman
NAMED in the Quran. Interesting isnt it?

The Bible teaches that husbands and wives should have sex often. It
teaches that it is sinful for either partner to deprive the other
partner, because it can lead to infidelity. Infact in the OT, wives
could divorce their husbands if they weren't having enough sex. So
there is nothing sinful about a husband and wife having sex.

I made no references to scripture, cause I'm tired.

The "virginity" aspect of the "Virgin Birth" is due in part to a
mistranslation of "alma" into "virgin" [Isaiah 7:14] in the Septuguant.

The 1st century translation of the hebrew bible in to Greek
mis-translated the messianic prophecy that the messiah would be born
from a "young woman", into the literal "virgin woman". The astute gospel
copy-editor connected the "un-wed" Mary story with the mis-quoted
prophecy, and the rest is history.

Spider you asked me:

You are an athiest, right? So you beleive that life formed over
billions of years from naturally occuring maters on the planet? Or do
you beleive that life came from outer space? Either way, how is that
easier to believe than the "awful test" of believing that Jesus was born
from a virgin? Give me a turkey baster and a virgin and I'll show you a
virgin who gives birth, can you show me abiogenesis?

So God is an "it" now, is He?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
An athiest, yes. My athiestic views developed and continue to develop
with the strides made in science. I find the theory of evelotuion quite
a possibility. I also have a belief that holds to the fact that this is
a great big universe, and to imagine that we might be the only creative,
aware, being, physical in nature, in the entire universe is not logical.
We are, in this world, this Earth, seperated from the universe as a
whole, only by gravitation. There are also some newer theories related
to alternative universes, similtaneous unverses and other dimentional
universes. Who can say that we are not a creation evolved from
something deposted here eons ago. Not a belief, just a qustion.

I do not, can not subscribe to the God-creationist theory. For there is
nothing logical in it's nature and I find it frought with hypocracy and
delusion and restrictive in nature to my own creative thought processes
not to mention it's adverse and detrimental role it plays in the history
of humanity.

Oh Spider, I forgot to answer your last question.
"So Got is an it now?"
It has long been 'assumed' that God must be masculine. However, as you
like to interpret scripture, I thought I might amuse you with my own
interpretation. It explains why God can not be he, but could be an it.
Notice God said "let us make MAN in OUR own image after OUR likeness,
and let THEM have.."
Since it was men who created the myth and wrote the myth and taught
the myth, it must have a male God, or did they just use HIM to stop from
having to say God all the time?
---------------------------------------------------------------

When the idea of a single God first came along, it was difficult to
comprehend, as all other ancient mythologies worshiped many gods. So it
might just be that 'the idea of God' was easier to promote as three gods
in one.

The first time this comes accross is in the Book of Genisis where God
said:

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and
let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of
the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every
creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." 27 So God created man in his
own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he
created them.

Now here we see that God had a dilema. How to make a creature in its'
own image, but still allow them the ability to procreate? So he made
them Male in the image of its' masculine nature, and also made Female in
the image of its' feminine, and with its' breath gave them both spirit,
which is of course the "physical" make-up of God since God is, after
all, spirit in nature.

God in three persons, masculine, feminine, and spirt.

However, with the acceptance of a single, only God, it became necessary
to find some way to address the three God concept. How convenient that
the Holy Trinity did not come into affect until AFTER Jesus. NOW the
Genisis story is indicative of prophacy - as Jesus is considered the Son
in this trilogy. Aint hindsight a wonderful thing in the hands of those
who can interpret it???

I have read what all you guys have said about the Holy Virgin, even
those posts that have diverted from the initial question.
I made a question, and now I'm going to answer what i think.
What I feel about the Holy Virgin is something similar of what I feel
about my mom. The Virgin is like my mom from heaven.
She is a being who takes care of me like if I were a little baby.
Once again I don't worship her, I just love her.
TLW

LW>

I would say she must have been a very special woman. Jesus did was not
proclaimed Christ untill he was something like 33 y/o I think.

Therefore she shaped his life as would any mother for 33 years.

Remarkable woman to have shaped a son who's charisma is still touching
the world.

There is another woman who has brought Light into the world of reality
from the world of christianity.

Mother Teresa. Quite an impressive person.