I kinda like it the way it is right now

marijuana is just illegal enough to keep the corporate goons out of it

if I have a quarter ounce of pot I'm not really worried about the legal ramifications

if I have fifty kilos of pot I might be in trouble. but I have no business being anywhere near 50 kilos of pot

Really...?

Legalization does not mean selling it everywhere. It means legalizing it and REGULATING it.
Legalization does not mean NO control it simply means NOT illegal.
Would still require a dispensing from a licensed place (gov gets money from things other than taxes).
Why is it that as soon as you start talkin legalization of MJ everyone assumes you mean meth and crack and such?
Even if METH was made legal I am sure that a license to operate a meth lab would not be given near a residential area. (the stuff is purty much rocket fuel and dangerous in ways other then to sniffers and smokers)

Why is it that mexican drugs are being sold in US cities?... Cause there is lots of money to be made (and lots of corrupt people in those cities - money does after all talk)... Not because of our drug laws which are quite stringent (when enforced).

I have NEVER had an accident that was caused by crack, mj, coke or other such things (crack high - sit on couch and trip)... I have been hit by a drunk driver... and have witnessed many DUI related accidents. Why do we allow alcohol to be used but not MJ (alcohol - toxin inimical to human life. MJ-herb with many uses.)

Oh yeah... Alcohol is a large industry with LOBBYISTS in that cesspool that our nations capitol has become (perhaps this explains much).

there are laws for alcohol as well....and pretty tough on it in most places. no underage drinking, no drinking and driving (.08 here) and public intoxication

But they do it anyway. I do not care for the idea that some stoned so and so may be out there driving while high with my family on the same street as them. Same way I feel about drunk driving.

Booze is legal...and it is still abused by so very many. Make pot legal...a whole new set of circumstances will evolve.

I DO NOT WANT MY CHILD OR GRANDCHILDREN SMOKING THAT SH!T!! LEGAL OR NO! I did it...I know how it affects the mind and responses of the body. I know....I also know the ramifications of it on the lungs and mind, the nervous system. Just wait til you get older and find out why.
I live with the lung issue everyday. I live with memories of my life and what my kids tell me when I was high. They hated me to be high. They hated it.

I have bo problem legalizing it for illness and pain release...but for joyful expression? I remember most of my idiocy when high...some I do not. But, I have been told...over and over again by disappointed family and friends. I have thier pride now.That is the most precious thing.
Kat

kat...i do agree with you. I don't want drunks driving either. they need to step up the force on it. around here....the cops are on the look out around the bars for this

I don't understand why so many people think that if we legalize marijuana in America, society would collapse. A bit melodramatic to say the least.

I have been to Europe and have seen people openly smoking marijuana in public settings, and the people there were actually acting more civilized than most Americans. I saw NO crimes being committed, NOBODY was arguing or fighting (no domestic disputes), no one was getting robbed, etc.... Everybody was still being responsible, going to work, driving fine, etc...

I think people need to wake up and start thinking for themselves instead of always believing the lies that the government is feeding them.

what or who are you referring to, filmfreek? I'm lost

I'm referring to the people that think if weed were legal in the states...that everyone would be running around crazy and stoned all the time. All of the myths and misconceptions that go with recreational marijuana use.

I was speaking of drugs in general. and I gave my pro's and con's. I have admitted I can't use it (and prefer my son not to) but there are people here that know first hand. I don't tihnk pot makes you crazy (some people it does because of a reaction to it)

I hear ya rose. I'm speaking solely about marijuana. I don't think crack, coke, heroin, PCP, LSD, etc... should be legal. JUST WEED.

I think we both know where we stand on this subject. That was just one of my many rants on it.

BTW...one of the craziest, most powerful drugs I've tried is Salvia (WAY scarier than any LSD or shroom trip I've had)...but yet, anyone can walk into a headshop and buy it LEGALLY. WTF??? I don't get it.

it was suggested to me to use Salvia but my brother in law (self proclaimed pot head) and my step dad (retired cop) warned me not to use it. even pot can make people have different reactions to it. just as alcohol can. But...yes...we know where each stands on this issue. my reasons were more of economics reasons

You must have just missed this.

"An exhaustive search of the literature finds no credible reports of deaths induced by marijuana. The US Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) records instances of drug mentions in medical examiners' reports, and though marijuana is mentioned, it is usually in combination with alcohol or other drugs. Marijuana alone has not been shown to cause an overdose death."

But your joke does bring up another point, the only thing Pot is a gateway to is funyuns and twinkies.

You think the Corportate goons don't have their hands in this somewhere? Who launders the money?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyWajJxI2Sw&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edailynewscaster%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded


A real drug war debate. Funny!

I did miss the part about marijuana deaths (or lack thereof) initially. Nothing personal here... but your posts sometimes tend to be a little on the novelish side (as mine can be at times too) and things get overlooked. I would still ask the question... why compound potential problems if there is no need to (from a "legal" standpoint)?

I probably should clarify my personal postition first. What a person does in the privacy of their own home or privately owned establishment among like-minded and/or consenting adults is of no concern of mine what-so-ever... PROVIDING, their actions do not interfere with my life and lifestyle choices at all. One may ingest, inject, smoke, or snort any substance (be it legal or illegal) they desire as far as I'm concerned. It's a matter of assuming personal responsibility for ones actions and suffering the consequences for the negative aspects of said actions. More often than not, it's my belief that people are incapable of both when it comes to drug usage (as indicated by the number of rehab centers and ER visits).

As per this debate overall. Can anyone make a persuasive (logical and rational) arguement on why to legalize marijuana? Just because the people want it, doesn't make for a compelling case for me. There are members of NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association) who want pedophilia legalized too for the same basic "constitutional" reasons (granted, an extreme example but still true). I would suggest the main appeal of illegal drug usage is mainly because it is illegal. In regards to medicinal uses... there are far more effective pharmacuticals (with less variables in the number of different compounds). Economically, it would be treated basically the same as any agriculture crop (the same cast of characters involved and reaping most of the capital). I too prefer the current way of doing business. Just like doing anything else, it's only illegal if one gets caught (whether it be a politician or Joe six-pack).

I couldn't have said it better...I would only add that there are millions of people who have been raised correctly...to respect the law...and...have avoided smoking / buying marijuana...solely because it's illegal...my concern would be...how many from this group...will now decide...that the only barrier stopping them in the pass...has been removed ?...

Bee / Gio
2012

Do we not have the same effects to the individual and to society in the throes of a full blown drug war?

In fact, I'll raise you and say the Prohibition has caused even more, because the simple user gets caught, run through the judicial system and where does that formerly non violent user end up? The human rights violation we call a prison system. Where evidence suggests that the small time user has no choice but to learn how to be a more effective and violent criminal, just to survive the place.


Reductions of inhibitions, well, I've known some serious potheads and you'll not find a more paranoid bunch on the planet, in fact, I'd go so far as to say that some potheads are far better drivers when they're high, a paranoid driver is a driver who is obeying traffic laws and not speeding like a demon with his @ss in an ice bucket.

Where one can smoke is simple, especially considering I live in CO where you cannot smoke in any business, any public building, period. Now, the question would be, could you open a pot bar?

Looking at all the drug and ALCOHOL treatment facilities, indeed. Difference is, no matter how addicted you are to the latter, you are allowed to use it until it puts you into a grave if you wish, so long as you aren't hurting anyone else or violating the regualtions placed on it (I.E. driving for instance).

You might have a point that with legalization, you might see a need for more treatment facilities, but with the tax revenue generated, you'd have an easy way of funding such a program, simply by dedicating 1/3 of all tax revenue generated from the sales and licensing of the distributors and farmers.

By regulating it, not through the FDA (they can't do anything worth a crap), but through the Dept. of Ag., you could also save the old family farms by providing them with an instant cash crop.

"Do we not have the same effects to the individual and to society in the throes of a full blown drug war?

It's a safe assumption that any product (legal or illegal) that alters perception will have effects upon both individual and subsequently society. Yes, the effects would still be the same regardless if there was a "full blown drug war" or not (If I understand your point correctly).

I would submit that prohibition itself didn't cause or make anyone into anything. The negative results are all based upon the individual choices people made to engage in said activity. The consumer, manufacturer, and dealer all made cognitive decisions to actively participate (knowing or at least having a good idea of the consequences if caught). A good example of Prohibition era social Darwinism (between those who get caught and those who don't). Al Capone and Joseph Kennedy, Sr. Both indulging in the same illegal act of bootlegging. The smart (and lucky) never get caught (or directly punished), regardless if they're in the big leagues or the minors. In prison, I would agree with you that one may have to become violent to survive; However, prison is only the result of being caught/convicted of making poor personal (and illegal)decisions/choices. The theme song from the television show "Baretta" keeps going through my mind.... "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time".

"Reduction in inhibitions". I've heard the same claims (being better drivers) under the influence of alcohol as well. The fear of getting caught gives a valid/logical reason to be paranoid or phobic. I believe any impairment, endangers others regardless. Whether it be drugs (illegal or illegal) or texting on a blackberry/talking on a cell phone. People make enough mistakes already, any impairment only serves to increase the likelihood of more mistakes (with the possibility of even more detrimental effects in the longrun).

"Now, the question would be, could you open a pot bar?" Since smoking is pretty much banned as an act (not as a substance) in public places, I suppose it would have to resemble more of a salad bar (ingesting instead of smoking). My other thought was a church that used marijuana as part of it's religious services (like the native american use of peyote). I'm confident that idea has been tried (and shot down) before though.

As per drug and alcohol treatment facilities. You're absolutely correct one can drink themselves to the grave if they choose too. Though this may be considered sematics... there are times when others (E.G. bartenders, friends, ect.) do restrict/cut off consumption to prevent possible self-injury though. Aside from that, I agree with you. On the other hand, just because the state gives it's nod of approval for unlimited induglence doesn't lessen the detrimental effects to the individual or society (the costs for treatment). I see no benefits in legalizing one more mind altering substance . It just gives the state one more legal substance to incarcerate people with (E.G. Driving under the influnce of pot) and take their money. Treated basically the same as alcohol. By legalization, I would submit it would be just one more way for the state to control people. The best way to stay in power... just give the people what they want (which is appeasement not leadership). Wouldn't it make more sense to fight the one world government/new world order/globalists with as clear of mind as possible? (My "gotcha" moment )

"Tax revenues and treatment facilities". I don't know about the rest of you; However, I would like to keep as much money as possible that I earn. One more tax is just one more tax. More government control, more governmental intrusion, larger government (one more government program). The laws of unintended consequences. As with the consumption of alcohol, the government gets their cut and you end up pissing money down the drain for a few hours of impaired judgement/temporary escape from reality.

"Saving family farms". On a large agricultural scale the closest thing I would suggest would be growing hemp (instead of marijuana). Not to imply or infer that you don't know the difference between the two; However, I'm surpised at the number of people who don't (including politicians).


http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Hemp

An afterthought addition concerning hypothetical legalization. Another market for Monsanto to get in on?

You understood my first point.

I would counter the statement about prohibition by saying, the effects aren't the same, because the drug war has created a black market, ran by violent criminals who kill each other over turf. It makes the user a subculture unto themselves, because they now have to deal with those violent criminals in order to get their products.

It also causes the prices of the goods to skyrocket, with the product prices jumping all over the place because of the shakey supply when busts happen.

When government is allowed to decide what perception altering substances you can use and which ones you cannot, you put yourself on a slippery slope, because you're allowing them to decide personal choice. How long before they decide if you're body fat index is too high, you can't have a Big Mac?

Al Capone and Kennedy, one parlayed his illicit activities into a political dynasty, the other got busted for tax evasion. Smart and lucky or just greasing the right palms? I would suggest you look at the early ruling classes of this nation, those who were the first wealthy of our Nation were in fact running opium, rum and slaves.

Why is it we allow government to treat one set of addicts as criminals and others as sick people?


I would say, with permits, you could open a smokers bar, but thats for local governments to decide, keep the Central Monster out of it.

Legalization is one more way for Governments to control people? What is the prohibition? Would you say that Prohibition or Legalization is the more expensive venture? Is it worth the money dumped into Prohibition worth the regulation of someone elses health and morality? Should Government have that power?

Coming after someone who may be driving under the influence isn't that hard, there are half a dozen indicators that someone has been imitating Tommy Chong. Nevermind that alot of places have turned to letting cops take your blood on the roadside anyways. (yea, that makes me feel safe, half the nurses who've jabbed me get it wrong, but a cop?)


Booze and Cigarettes being legal have cause hundreds of thousands of deaths and illness per year, Where is the unbiased evidence that Marijuana does the same? I would put forth the medical community see's marijuana as a medicine and not as a cause of illness, at the very least more good than harm.

Taxes on weed may be just one more tax, but our government is broke, would you rather we continue to borrow billions from overseas to fund our system, or would you rather the users do it?

Your gotcha moment doesn't work for me, because I'm not a user. As a Walmart employee, I'm subject to pee test whenever they feel like I might be using, plus in any event of an accident. The economy is in such horrible shape, I wouldn't dream of risking my employment for a buzz. Twinkies aren't that good ever. Having a clear mind is important when dealing with trying to decipher the complexity of the New World Order movement, but it's no more necessary than Rush Limbaugh making millions on his radio show while taking enough oxycontin to drop a Hippo. It only leaves you open to suggestion, which is far more prevalent on Mass Media, but can be found on the net just as easily. It takes discernment, but I wouldn't expect potheads to be doing that kind of heavy reading or documentary viewing, I would expect them to be watching the smurfs with the color messed up so that Papa Smurf is green... of course not all pot heads are the same, so thats just speculation.


Hemp is a whole different ball of wax, Go ask Monsanto and DuPont why they're so scared of industrial hemp.

But, marijuana being grown domestically would in fact be a boon to those family farms, it's not difficult to grow and would be an instant cash crop.

Monsanto would be a problem, sure, but they'd have a hell of alot harder time getting control of the Marijuana industry than they would the food industry, because potheads again, tend to be a paranoid bunch.