I wonder how the poster of this topic would feel about someone moving next door to him and setting up a meth lab.All totally legal as far as he is concerned.I wonder how he would feel if he was run over by someone high on crack,once again totally legal to smoke.

Is it any wonder we have recently heard of Mexico pushing drugs and it's gangs into American cities,kidnapping Americans,and killing cops?Anyone wonder why that is happening?

Lax drug laws and a laid back attitude towards drug use.

It would be interesting to take a major city and legalize drugs and see what happends.I wonder how many thousands of people would quit their jobs to be drug dealers.Even the 7-11's would be selling herion,crack,and cocaine.How many thousands of addicts would move there bringing their addictions,crime,and problems.How many new users would we see?

There is a reason no nation on this earth will legalize drugs.They allready know the outcome.

there are laws for alcohol as well....and pretty tough on it in most places. no underage drinking, no drinking and driving (.08 here) and public intoxication

warmachine- I'm going to have to question your statistics. The claim of marijuana as a stand alone cause of death may be accurate (0); However, it would be intellectually dishonest to say it's not a possible contributing cofactor. Does marijuana contribute to inactivity and a poor diet? In some cases I would say "yes". (Facetious humor here) I don't recall ever seeing anyone getting the "munchies", eating celery sticks then doing aerobics. "Motor vehicle crashes"- Of all the fatalities involving vehicles... not one single driver had marijuana in his/her system? Impossible. The same would hold true to suicide, incidents involving firearms, and homicide (crimes committed with marijuana possibly being in the system). Not one single person contacted AIDS (or any other STD) whilst under the influence of marijuana? Could it be possible that there could be adverse reactions with other prescription medications or other legal/illegal drugs when used in conjunction with marijuana? Absolutely, there are just too many variables. I would submit that people do enough stupid things already without adding to the list another legal psychoactive depressant (marijuana) to contribute.

I kinda like it the way it is right now

marijuana is just illegal enough to keep the corporate goons out of it

if I have a quarter ounce of pot I'm not really worried about the legal ramifications

if I have fifty kilos of pot I might be in trouble. but I have no business being anywhere near 50 kilos of pot

You must have just missed this.

"An exhaustive search of the literature finds no credible reports of deaths induced by marijuana. The US Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) records instances of drug mentions in medical examiners' reports, and though marijuana is mentioned, it is usually in combination with alcohol or other drugs. Marijuana alone has not been shown to cause an overdose death."

But your joke does bring up another point, the only thing Pot is a gateway to is funyuns and twinkies.

I'll give it a shot on why not to end the drug war (on a border level). Quite simply, the effects they have upon the individual and the cost to society in the loss of life (the dealer violence aside) and productivity (raise your hand if you've called in to work and requested a personal day because of a hangover) by the recreational and/or habitual user. The most compelling reasons/arguements can be made by former users/addicts themselves... the toll taken upon friends, family members, and personal health. It also provides more excuses for people not taking personal responsibility for their actions (E.G. crimes committed while under the influence). The reduction of inhibitions- increasing the likelihood of risky behavior (E.G. contracting an STD). I would suggest using alchohol and tobacco (legal drugs) as the template. There are concerted efforts to restrict it's uses even further... where one can smoke and the lowering of the threshold of what is considered a DUI. It's always an "after the fact" consequence when it can be prevented by not legalizing or decriminalizing them to begin with.

I would suggest at looking at all the drug and alcohol treatment programs already... the more drugs legalized and/or decriminalized only compounds the costs for treatments and such. Just another way for government to separate you from your money (like gambling boats and the lotto). Cause the problem only to somehow miraculously have a half-assed solution to it, resulting in even more problems. The more the problems, it appears to me the more people look to government for solutions. Another piece of legislation (in legalizing/decriminalizing) that will result in further political corruption.

I'll give it a shot on why not to end the drug war (on a border level). Quite simply, the effects they have upon the individual and the cost to society in the loss of life (the dealer violence aside) and productivity (raise your hand if you've called in to work and requested a personal day because of a hangover) by the recreational and/or habitual user. The most compelling reasons/arguements can be made by former users/addicts themselves... the toll taken upon friends, family members, and personal health. It also provides more excuses for people not taking personal responsibility for their actions (E.G. crimes committed while under the influence). The reduction of inhibitions- increasing the likelihood of risky behavior (E.G. contracting an STD). I would suggest using alchohol and tobacco (legal drugs) as the template. There are concerted efforts to restrict it's uses even further... where one can smoke and the lowering of the threshold of what is considered a DUI. It's always an "after the fact" consequence when it can be prevented by not legalizing or decriminalizing them to begin with.

I would suggest at looking at all the drug and alcohol treatment programs already... the more drugs legalized and/or decriminalized only compounds the costs for treatments and such. Just another way for government to separate you from your money (like gambling boats and the lotto). Cause the problem only to somehow miraculously have a half-assed solution to it, resulting in even more problems. The more the problems, it appears to me the more people look to government for solutions. Another piece of legislation (in legalizing/decriminalizing) that will result in further political corruption.

Do we not have the same effects to the individual and to society in the throes of a full blown drug war?

In fact, I'll raise you and say the Prohibition has caused even more, because the simple user gets caught, run through the judicial system and where does that formerly non violent user end up? The human rights violation we call a prison system. Where evidence suggests that the small time user has no choice but to learn how to be a more effective and violent criminal, just to survive the place.


Reductions of inhibitions, well, I've known some serious potheads and you'll not find a more paranoid bunch on the planet, in fact, I'd go so far as to say that some potheads are far better drivers when they're high, a paranoid driver is a driver who is obeying traffic laws and not speeding like a demon with his @ss in an ice bucket.

Where one can smoke is simple, especially considering I live in CO where you cannot smoke in any business, any public building, period. Now, the question would be, could you open a pot bar?

Looking at all the drug and ALCOHOL treatment facilities, indeed. Difference is, no matter how addicted you are to the latter, you are allowed to use it until it puts you into a grave if you wish, so long as you aren't hurting anyone else or violating the regualtions placed on it (I.E. driving for instance).

You might have a point that with legalization, you might see a need for more treatment facilities, but with the tax revenue generated, you'd have an easy way of funding such a program, simply by dedicating 1/3 of all tax revenue generated from the sales and licensing of the distributors and farmers.

By regulating it, not through the FDA (they can't do anything worth a crap), but through the Dept. of Ag., you could also save the old family farms by providing them with an instant cash crop.

"Do we not have the same effects to the individual and to society in the throes of a full blown drug war?

It's a safe assumption that any product (legal or illegal) that alters perception will have effects upon both individual and subsequently society. Yes, the effects would still be the same regardless if there was a "full blown drug war" or not (If I understand your point correctly).

I would submit that prohibition itself didn't cause or make anyone into anything. The negative results are all based upon the individual choices people made to engage in said activity. The consumer, manufacturer, and dealer all made cognitive decisions to actively participate (knowing or at least having a good idea of the consequences if caught). A good example of Prohibition era social Darwinism (between those who get caught and those who don't). Al Capone and Joseph Kennedy, Sr. Both indulging in the same illegal act of bootlegging. The smart (and lucky) never get caught (or directly punished), regardless if they're in the big leagues or the minors. In prison, I would agree with you that one may have to become violent to survive; However, prison is only the result of being caught/convicted of making poor personal (and illegal)decisions/choices. The theme song from the television show "Baretta" keeps going through my mind.... "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time".

"Reduction in inhibitions". I've heard the same claims (being better drivers) under the influence of alcohol as well. The fear of getting caught gives a valid/logical reason to be paranoid or phobic. I believe any impairment, endangers others regardless. Whether it be drugs (illegal or illegal) or texting on a blackberry/talking on a cell phone. People make enough mistakes already, any impairment only serves to increase the likelihood of more mistakes (with the possibility of even more detrimental effects in the longrun).

"Now, the question would be, could you open a pot bar?" Since smoking is pretty much banned as an act (not as a substance) in public places, I suppose it would have to resemble more of a salad bar (ingesting instead of smoking). My other thought was a church that used marijuana as part of it's religious services (like the native american use of peyote). I'm confident that idea has been tried (and shot down) before though.

As per drug and alcohol treatment facilities. You're absolutely correct one can drink themselves to the grave if they choose too. Though this may be considered sematics... there are times when others (E.G. bartenders, friends, ect.) do restrict/cut off consumption to prevent possible self-injury though. Aside from that, I agree with you. On the other hand, just because the state gives it's nod of approval for unlimited induglence doesn't lessen the detrimental effects to the individual or society (the costs for treatment). I see no benefits in legalizing one more mind altering substance . It just gives the state one more legal substance to incarcerate people with (E.G. Driving under the influnce of pot) and take their money. Treated basically the same as alcohol. By legalization, I would submit it would be just one more way for the state to control people. The best way to stay in power... just give the people what they want (which is appeasement not leadership). Wouldn't it make more sense to fight the one world government/new world order/globalists with as clear of mind as possible? (My "gotcha" moment )

"Tax revenues and treatment facilities". I don't know about the rest of you; However, I would like to keep as much money as possible that I earn. One more tax is just one more tax. More government control, more governmental intrusion, larger government (one more government program). The laws of unintended consequences. As with the consumption of alcohol, the government gets their cut and you end up pissing money down the drain for a few hours of impaired judgement/temporary escape from reality.

"Saving family farms". On a large agricultural scale the closest thing I would suggest would be growing hemp (instead of marijuana). Not to imply or infer that you don't know the difference between the two; However, I'm surpised at the number of people who don't (including politicians).


http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Hemp