amen we all have our own pains i am proud that i cried out to jesus for
help

I find it strange that so many who want nothing more from death than to
spend an eternity with God, can not even tell you what they will do for
eternity. Personally, I find the propect of eternity, without ever
gaining my own personal GODDOM to be repugnant. If I have an eternity,
I better darn well graduate to creating my own universe someday, what
amusement that might be, or eternity could be a bitter "hell" of a long
time.

Redykeulous,

In this life, you are a screwdriver being used as a hammer. In Heaven,
you will be a screwdriver used as a screwdriver. You have a purpose to
fullfil. Something that you were MADE to do. Heaven is not described
as all of us standing around telling God how great he is. We will do
that, but you will do many other things too. Heaven will be on the new
Earth. There will be animals, but they won't hurt anyone. There will
be millions and millions of people in Heaven. Have you had a really
great converstaion that lasted all night? Imagine one that lasted for a
month without break. You will never grow old, sick or tired. You will
help Jesus do his Father's work while the Father sits back and takes
glory in creation. We don't know much more about heaven, because we are
told that there are wonders in heaven that are prepared for us, that we
can't comprehend. One thing I can tell you, something, I believe, drove
Satan to rebel. Out of all of creation, only those who are saved will
see God's face. Remember those storys about angels with wings? They do
have wings, the wings cover their face when they stand in God's
presence. For them, to see God's face is to be destroyed. For us,
seeing God's face will be but one gift we receive for serving the Son.

Spider, you weave a beautiful fairy tale, but the truth is, I've heard
all this. I can not even imagine that the mind of any person would be
so content as to never have a single creative thought? Truely, what
could you sit around and discuss for a month. How cute the squirrel and
the bird and the cat played together? No sickness, to death, no birth,
no reason to sow or reap, no history, what for? What will nourish the
senses? Obviously we won't need clothes or shelter, it's a perfect
termperate world. What's to stop it from being a jungle or does nothing
in this world grow? What creativity will we be allowed?
Draw, write, with what, paint, with what and what for, who would care
after all, that would make one an individual, and in a perfect world
without hate, judgement, or the need for anything at all, what
difference of opinion could there possibly be?

I wish just once, some Christian, would come up with some reality based
concept of heaven that would actually fit into the scheme of their
religion and offer some logic for wanting to achieve it.

I can sit here in my home sweating glass over whether my neighbour
thinks I am a good person or, I can get on with living a gentle life...a
life treading gently on this earth, and serving my fellow man as best I
can.

You do your thing your way, and I will do mine my way...and as to
believing I cease to exist after this life...I know there is more
waiting for me..I've been shown it once..so I know my purpose..I don't
need a road map nor a book to show me.

Redykeulous,

Do you think that God gives people artistic talents without reason? If
you are a painter, author, musician, singer, etc in this life, you will
be that also in the next life. We know that you will "be known as you
are known", so you will be Redykeulous in Heaven. Your personality will
be intact, your interests will still be there.

I think it's very strange that someone can stick on the belief of
heaven. God has promised that there are wonders there that we can't
imagine. If you had ever felt God, you would know that you could be
content forever just sitting in his presence. If you can accept that
God might exist, then you should trust what He has said about Heaven and
not fear it, but look forward with great anticipation.

amen spider

Well said spider>

'I think it's very strange that someone can stick on the belief of
heaven. God has promised that there are wonders there that we can't
imagine. If you had ever felt God, you would know that you could be
content forever just sitting in his presence. If you can accept that God
might exist, then you should trust what He has said about Heaven and not
fear it, but look forward with great anticipation. '

I would add a small thing...

If you can accept that God exists then you should not fear him for you
are in his presence now and forever. He is in you as in all things.
Heaven is not a place you go in the end times it is a place you are at
in the now could you but see beyond the veil of words to the truth.

You have said heaven will be made here on earth when Christ returns.
Step through the veil and see, heaven is in you.

I fully respect the right of anyone to believe in whatever metaphysical
manifestation makes sense to them, but I find it odd when people do not
extend that same respect to others. By its very nature, faith lacks
evidence. One can say it's a spiritual revelation, epiphany, etc., but
those are all personal experiences in which no one else can share
directly. Such "evidence" for one person cannot be transferred to
another.

So, while most Christians — including many fundamentalists — fully
respect other people, we have a handful of Christians who not only
believe that only through Jesus Christ can one attain the splendors of
Heaven, but also that they are justified in chastising — nay, judging —
others for their beliefs. The goal they have is not to proclaim the
glory of Jesus and save the souls of those who have yet to see the
light, but to exalt themselves and look down upon the sinners around
them.

For the Christian, the Bible provides a guide by which to live — not by
which to judge others. It is a source for personal guidance, not a
means for anyone to force their beliefs onto others. "Judge not, lest
ye be judged ... why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's
eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?" For those who
think they have removed the log from their eye, "all have sinned and
fall short of the glory of God." That's the present tense — all fall
short right now, whether a believer or not. The Bible clearly indicates
that no one but God, not even someone who's bound for Heaven, can stand
in judgement of another in spiritual matters.

Further, such public proclamations of personal righteousness by such
religious elitists is against the spirit of personal worship outlined in
the Bible:

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for
they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the
streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have
their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and
when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and
thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

For those who praise themselves for their faith and rebuke the myriad
others who don't follow said faith, they are making a public spectacle
of themselves and as such, "they have their reward." Still think Heaven
is in their future?

Such "you're going to Hell" people are, thankfully, few and far between.
Most religious people embrace the tenets of love and peace their faith
emotes. But consider for a moment those who are quick to pass judgment
upon others — suppose they are right and only they will have earned
(through their superior faith) the reward of Heaven. Is that the place
you'd want to spend eternity anyway? with _those_ people? That, to me,
is the very worst kind of Hell I can imagine.

On a side note, the concept of a Hell ablaze has its roots in medieval
religious marketing — the Church taking it upon itself to scare the
pagans into believing the Christian doctrine. It was wildly successful
and convinced most people to toe the line (and those who refused were
generally tortured and/or killed). Dante's "Inferno" was a
magnification of the Church's propaganda. Prior to that, the concept
was generally that all souls were in waiting in Sheol until the end of
the world when Judgment Day arrived. It was then that the faithful were
to be rewarded with eternal Heaven. The others, not worthy of Heaven,
were either to remain in Sheol or be blinked out of existence (there
seems to be some question about exactly which was to happen). The
Biblical justification people use for the torturous nature of Hell is
based not on the word "torture" (a Biblical misnomer) but on the word
"torment," which is clearly not the same thing. The idea was that the
separation from God was cause for great distress, but not that there
were eternal flames or the wailing and nashing of teeth as demons eat
you entrails, etc. (Torture and torment are often used interchangeably
in contemporary usage, but in it's Biblical context have distinct
connotations.)

So, faced with the option of spending my eternity in the company of
self-righteous a-holes or spending it feeling the absence of God's
presence, I would gladly choose the latter.

Nice post...

Shed some light upon a dark subject.

thank you.

What an incredible post Resserts!

Thankyou...you have made my morning coffee all the
sweeter.

nice resserts and so true.

Myself I don't really care where I go when I die, I have friends in high
and low places.

hey pass the tp..this stall is out.

There you go, take two

thanx..

Don’t worry Jax, in heaven there are no stalls. Everyone there is
eternally full of it.

dont ya know that the meek shall inherit the earth? thats where heaven
will be.

my idea of hell is a place with no tp James...and i sure dont want to
spend eternity with a bunch of constipated folks...Well f@#$k it I just
aint gonna die then.

That's the spirit Jax! :o)