exactly invisable

and again... one can quote all manner of books, and such...

one can lecture until boredom and drool drips from the mouths of those
dozing off...

Interesting that some of us did not need universities to come by wisdom,
and knowing how things work...

and, also interesting how many feel the need to throw their's around as
if it makes any difference to those of us whom believe in what we do.

Angry?

what makes me angry about religion is the truth and greed, and many many
wars created. someone said it is not so?
omg, that is an outright lie.

How many people lost thier lives in the right to believe? How many
people from across the atlantic... and again here! in the USA were
tortured, and killed by force of belief?

To say these things had nothing to do with religion is the same as
saying my penis was there, but not my mind...

WTF!?

Not all folks push thier beliefs today. But, many MANY judge others whom
have experiences, and beliefs to the contrary.

I don't go door to door selling the "Word"
I don't blame the "sins" of innocent folks for catastrophes, like those
using it as a way to cram it at us...

To say to a homeless woman with a daughter..in danger... that because
they are not a "member" of the "flock" they can not expect charity...,
or aide? Since when does charity have attachments?
These were Christian, and Catholic charities, btw...

Hiding child molesters in the church as if they are more than the rest
of the human race disgusts me.

The way religion puts itself above the lives of us all?

You, abra, are the one who said religions promoted "ignorance". Which
is a dead-on falsehood. Every truly great thinker in human history was
religious. Aristotle (for all intents, the inventer of science)....
Newton, Einstein, Da Vinci, the list goes on.

There's really never been a decisively non religious person that's
advanced any science in any appreciable degree. You call people
"brainwashed"- and yet you reject things that disagree with your dogma
as readily as the worst of them. Except the real nuts.


Do pay attention, when I spoke of atheism, I first said *oppresion*-
which includes the oppressions of free speech, free thought, and
"progress". I went into the tangent of warfare, admittedly, but warefare
was a tangent (or logical progression, whichever you choose). The point
was in oppression and suppression.

And I see Abra well proven here, Poet, you hear the voice of reason, but
you don't listen. You don't want to know what others think, you only
want to run them down because in your mind you can be the only one
right, no one else can.
I call that close minded and ignorant.

I hear the voice of reason. I pay attention, I absorb that which is
said to me, and I draw my own conclusions. Just because those
conclusions aren't what you're trying to get me to believe, that doesn't
make me closed minded in the slightest. Just means you'll have to do
better than the same old cookie-cutter arguments I've listened to for
years.

Good Morning!!!!! My goodness....reading this
thread is almost like a line up of some of my favourite people on this
site...

Makes my coffee all the sweeter....

Almost.

morning beauty!

trying to get sarah inside, lol. and, i keep losing my satellites this
afternoon!

Morning Jess, or rather nearly good night for me

How rude of me....good afternoon, evening as well...

Hey, leave Sarah out in the sun...beautiful flowers need sunshine to
bloom..

Almost bedtime? Noooo...I only just got here...and I ran back from the
beach to see you...

And hello man of many words, with the worlds best
carrots...almost...

I hope you are not out of breath from the running

But I'm just printing out a few pages of Emmanuel Kant's
philosophy and I'd like to read them before I fall asleep

Quote like this one?


"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor
should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." -
Vice President George H.W. Bush, Aug. 27,1988 at a press conference

Nuff said, Mike?

-Kerry O.

LOL here, here!

jesse,

sun is gone, and no sunset... gonna rain for a few days...
Besides she has homework. Gave her the afternoon afterschool to hang out
and have fun...

Hey, invisible, lol. Just have the hardest time calling you that
xxxooo

===================

lil hijack

BIG HIJACK!

so why are people angry when it comes to religion? good question, as for
me;

I get angry when I am spoken to condensendingly and made to feel as tho
my opinions are bunk because they are not inline with the majority, or
when someone tries to tell me why I believe what I believe- as tho they
have the answers to the questions in me that I dont even know I have.

I dont need someone telling me why I feel the way I do, I am a big boy
now, been tying my shoes by myself for a long while. People understand
that there are different opinions- they just dont except that those
opinions are viable one tho because they differ from their own.

so in a nut shell-
I guess Im not angry at "man" for their views, but for not being
"allowed" to believe my own without redicule. the pretenscious arrogant
"knowledge" of man.


grwoing up I was told that you dont talk about religion or politics.
Here we crush that advice given- maybe the old people knew something I
didnt.


doc


side not- running by pinchin butts jess....

except there were other older folks who were aquarius' like I am, and
say BOOYAH!

Poet, check your data please. Aristotle, was once highly held in the
Catholic church, for his philosophy proved the existance of God. Well,
that is, until some intelligent bishop actually read and understood the
work. You see, Aristotle was believed only that the universe works by
design, however, before there was anything in the universe something had
to start it rolling (maybe the dice, right Abra?) that something could
have been any one of an innumerable possible actions or forces. Of
course he was excommunicated and the most unfortunate thing of all, is
that all of the original works of Aristotle so carefully and reverently
collected by the church, were deemed to be blasphemous and quickly
burned. Who knows what insight was lost in that move.

Da'Vinci - look again. He was paid to do most of the works he did. He
held very few of his religious themes in any high regard, except that he
was paid handsomly. It may well be that he was in fact more in tune
with the gnostic faith. He was a genius, but religeous?

Ok, maybe not so much "religious" as "purpose-based spiritualists".
Great men never followed the doctrine simply because it was doctrine,
but they followed their faith. And they did have faith. They were hardly
atheist, or even agnostic.


As to the catholic view that Aristotle "proved" God. Perhaps, perhaps
not. But that wasn't the only work of his where he expressed his
opinions of a Creator. Especially in any of his references that brought
up Socratese and Plato.

Aristotle was, in many ways, a very modest man. He almost always
refered to his mentor's works when expressing his views on spirituality.
In contrast, he was happy to claim his scientific recordings.
Nomenclature and taxonomy, most especially.

hey doc, can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say, "we don't
discuss polotics or religion here". You know where that came from? It
came from the times before the civil war. Whenever there was a 'party',
dinner, dance whatever, occasionally the men would begin to discuss the
issues of the day. It was the duty of the 'host' man hosting the party
to stop the conversation and move the 'men' to another room. It was not
polite to discuss the world of men in front of the tender ears of a
woman. Strange how some things carry on.

We need to discuss these thing, in mixed company, in all company.
Sometimes a persons belief may invoke quesions, and that's good, it
gives us all a better understanding. And then sometimes we just have to
put up with those that want to offer some of their own knowledge in
place of your belief. Pass them off, so what. Or take the time to
address them, or better yet, find a way to show them they are wrong.

The important thing is that we are all finding a way to get along, one
way or another. It's actually quite safe here too, no chance of getting
in the way of flying bottles or fists for that matter.

I'm losing my religion THAT WAS AN AWESOME SONG

Organizations are substantially inferior to individuals. As such, at
this point in time, any organization attempting to influence individual
morality is counterproductive to spiritual evolution.