Topic: A Satyagraha for the 21st Century, made for the USA
BrandonJItaliano's photo
Sun 01/11/09 03:36 PM
Edited by BrandonJItaliano on Sun 01/11/09 03:37 PM

Principles for Satyagrahis

Gandhi envisioned satyagraha as not only a tactic to be used in acute political struggle, but as a universal solvent for injustice and harm. He felt that it was equally applicable to large-scale political struggle and to one-on-one interpersonal conflicts and that it should be taught to everyone.[14]

He founded the Sabarmati Ashram to teach satyagraha. He asked satyagrahis to follow the following principles:[15]

1. Nonviolence (ahimsa)
2. Truth — this includes honesty, but goes beyond it to mean living fully in accord with and in devotion to that which is true
3. Non-stealing
4. Chastity (brahmacharya) — this includes sexual chastity, but also the subordination of other sensual desires to the primary devotion to truth (I personally dont agree with this as a founding principle, i personally feel the it should be embraced not subdued)
5. Non-possession (not the same as poverty)
6. Body-labor or bread-labor
7. Control of the palate
8. Fearlessness
9. Equal respect for all religions
10. Economic strategy such as boycotts (swadeshi)
11. Freedom from untouchability

On another occasion, he listed seven rules as “essential for every Satyagrahi in India”:[16]

1. must have a living faith in God
2. must believe in truth and non-violence and have faith in the inherent goodness of human nature which he expects to evoke by suffering in the satyagraha effort
3. must be leading a chaste life, and be willing to die or lose all his possessions
4. must be a habitual khadi wearer and spinner
5. must abstain from alcohol and other intoxicants
6. must willingly carry out all the rules of discipline that are issued
7. must obey the jail rules unless they are specially devised to hurt his self respect

Rules for Satyagraha Campaigns

Gandhi proposed a series of rules for satyagrahis to follow in a resistance campaign:[9]

1. harbour no anger
2. suffer the anger of the opponent
3. never retaliate to assaults or punishment; but do not submit, out of fear of punishment or assault, to an order given in anger
4. voluntarily submit to arrest or confiscation of your own property
5. if you are a trustee of property, defend that property (non-violently) from confiscation with your life
6. do not curse or swear
7. do not insult the opponent
8. neither salute nor insult the flag of your opponent or your opponent’s leaders
9. if anyone attempts to insult or assault your opponent, defend your opponent (non-violently) with your life
10. as a prisoner, behave courteously and obey prison regulations (except any that are contrary to self-respect)
11. as a prisoner, do not ask for special favourable treatment
12. as a prisoner, do not fast in an attempt to gain conveniences whose deprivation does not involve any injury to your self-respect
13. joyfully obey the orders of the leaders of the civil disobedience action
14. do not pick and choose amongst the orders you obey; if you find the action as a whole improper or immoral, sever your connection with the action entirely
15. do not make your participation conditional on your comrades taking care of your dependents while you are engaging in the campaign or are in prison; do not expect them to provide such support
16. do not become a cause of communal quarrels
17. do not take sides in such quarrels, but assist only that party which is demonstrably in the right; in the case of inter-religious conflict, give your life to protect (non-violently) those in danger on either side
18. avoid occasions that may give rise to communal quarrels
19. do not take part in processions that would wound the religious sensibilities of any community


We dont have to respond with violence, you can get the same outcome with out it with longer lasting rewards. I think that with the taxes that are being levied and the money they do have, being spent frivolously, we have to do something and do something now.

Means and ends

The theory of satyagraha sees means and ends as inseparable. The means used to obtain an end are wrapped up and attached to that end. Therefore, it is contradictory to try to use unjust means to obtain justice or to try to use violence to obtain peace. As Gandhi wrote: “They say, 'means are, after all, means'. I would say, 'means are, after all, everything'. As the means so the end...”

Gandhi used an example to explain this:

If I want to deprive you of your watch, I shall certainly have to fight for it; if I want to buy your watch, I shall have to pay for it; and if I want a gift, I shall have to plead for it; and, according to the means I employ, the watch is stolen property, my own property, or a donation.

Gandhi rejected the idea that injustice should, or even could, be fought against “by any means necessary” — if you use violent, coercive, unjust means, whatever ends you produce will necessarily embed that injustice. To those who preached violence and called nonviolent actionists cowards, he replied: “I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence....I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honor than that she should, in a cowardly manner, become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonor....But I believe that nonviolence is infinitely superior to violence, forgiveness is more manly than punishment.

MirrorMirror's photo
Sun 01/11/09 03:38 PM


Principles for Satyagrahis

Gandhi envisioned satyagraha as not only a tactic to be used in acute political struggle, but as a universal solvent for injustice and harm. He felt that it was equally applicable to large-scale political struggle and to one-on-one interpersonal conflicts and that it should be taught to everyone.[14]

He founded the Sabarmati Ashram to teach satyagraha. He asked satyagrahis to follow the following principles:[15]

1. Nonviolence (ahimsa)
2. Truth — this includes honesty, but goes beyond it to mean living fully in accord with and in devotion to that which is true
3. Non-stealing
4. Chastity (brahmacharya) — this includes sexual chastity, but also the subordination of other sensual desires to the primary devotion to truth (I personally dont agree with this as a founding principle, i personally feel the it should be embraced not subdued)
5. Non-possession (not the same as poverty)
6. Body-labor or bread-labor
7. Control of the palate
8. Fearlessness
9. Equal respect for all religions
10. Economic strategy such as boycotts (swadeshi)
11. Freedom from untouchability

On another occasion, he listed seven rules as “essential for every Satyagrahi in India”:[16]

1. must have a living faith in God
2. must believe in truth and non-violence and have faith in the inherent goodness of human nature which he expects to evoke by suffering in the satyagraha effort
3. must be leading a chaste life, and be willing to die or lose all his possessions
4. must be a habitual khadi wearer and spinner
5. must abstain from alcohol and other intoxicants
6. must willingly carry out all the rules of discipline that are issued
7. must obey the jail rules unless they are specially devised to hurt his self respect

Rules for Satyagraha Campaigns

Gandhi proposed a series of rules for satyagrahis to follow in a resistance campaign:[9]

1. harbour no anger
2. suffer the anger of the opponent
3. never retaliate to assaults or punishment; but do not submit, out of fear of punishment or assault, to an order given in anger
4. voluntarily submit to arrest or confiscation of your own property
5. if you are a trustee of property, defend that property (non-violently) from confiscation with your life
6. do not curse or swear
7. do not insult the opponent
8. neither salute nor insult the flag of your opponent or your opponent’s leaders
9. if anyone attempts to insult or assault your opponent, defend your opponent (non-violently) with your life
10. as a prisoner, behave courteously and obey prison regulations (except any that are contrary to self-respect)
11. as a prisoner, do not ask for special favourable treatment
12. as a prisoner, do not fast in an attempt to gain conveniences whose deprivation does not involve any injury to your self-respect
13. joyfully obey the orders of the leaders of the civil disobedience action
14. do not pick and choose amongst the orders you obey; if you find the action as a whole improper or immoral, sever your connection with the action entirely
15. do not make your participation conditional on your comrades taking care of your dependents while you are engaging in the campaign or are in prison; do not expect them to provide such support
16. do not become a cause of communal quarrels
17. do not take sides in such quarrels, but assist only that party which is demonstrably in the right; in the case of inter-religious conflict, give your life to protect (non-violently) those in danger on either side
18. avoid occasions that may give rise to communal quarrels
19. do not take part in processions that would wound the religious sensibilities of any community


We dont have to respond with violence, you can get the same outcome with out it with longer lasting rewards. I think that with the taxes that are being levied and the money they do have, being spent frivolously, we have to do something and do something now.

Means and ends

The theory of satyagraha sees means and ends as inseparable. The means used to obtain an end are wrapped up and attached to that end. Therefore, it is contradictory to try to use unjust means to obtain justice or to try to use violence to obtain peace. As Gandhi wrote: “They say, 'means are, after all, means'. I would say, 'means are, after all, everything'. As the means so the end...”

Gandhi used an example to explain this:

If I want to deprive you of your watch, I shall certainly have to fight for it; if I want to buy your watch, I shall have to pay for it; and if I want a gift, I shall have to plead for it; and, according to the means I employ, the watch is stolen property, my own property, or a donation.

Gandhi rejected the idea that injustice should, or even could, be fought against “by any means necessary” — if you use violent, coercive, unjust means, whatever ends you produce will necessarily embed that injustice. To those who preached violence and called nonviolent actionists cowards, he replied: “I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence....I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honor than that she should, in a cowardly manner, become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonor....But I believe that nonviolence is infinitely superior to violence, forgiveness is more manly than punishment.

:thumbsup:


nogames39's photo
Sun 01/11/09 03:42 PM
13. joyfully obey the orders of the leaders of the civil disobedience action



Just another commie crock. Who's going to appoint the Fuhrer, whose orders I suppose to be "joyfully obeying"?

BrandonJItaliano's photo
Sun 01/11/09 03:43 PM



Principles for Satyagrahis

Gandhi envisioned satyagraha as not only a tactic to be used in acute political struggle, but as a universal solvent for injustice and harm. He felt that it was equally applicable to large-scale political struggle and to one-on-one interpersonal conflicts and that it should be taught to everyone.[14]

He founded the Sabarmati Ashram to teach satyagraha. He asked satyagrahis to follow the following principles:[15]

1. Nonviolence (ahimsa)
2. Truth — this includes honesty, but goes beyond it to mean living fully in accord with and in devotion to that which is true
3. Non-stealing
4. Chastity (brahmacharya) — this includes sexual chastity, but also the subordination of other sensual desires to the primary devotion to truth (I personally dont agree with this as a founding principle, i personally feel the it should be embraced not subdued)
5. Non-possession (not the same as poverty)
6. Body-labor or bread-labor
7. Control of the palate
8. Fearlessness
9. Equal respect for all religions
10. Economic strategy such as boycotts (swadeshi)
11. Freedom from untouchability

On another occasion, he listed seven rules as “essential for every Satyagrahi in India”:[16]

1. must have a living faith in God
2. must believe in truth and non-violence and have faith in the inherent goodness of human nature which he expects to evoke by suffering in the satyagraha effort
3. must be leading a chaste life, and be willing to die or lose all his possessions
4. must be a habitual khadi wearer and spinner
5. must abstain from alcohol and other intoxicants
6. must willingly carry out all the rules of discipline that are issued
7. must obey the jail rules unless they are specially devised to hurt his self respect

Rules for Satyagraha Campaigns

Gandhi proposed a series of rules for satyagrahis to follow in a resistance campaign:[9]

1. harbour no anger
2. suffer the anger of the opponent
3. never retaliate to assaults or punishment; but do not submit, out of fear of punishment or assault, to an order given in anger
4. voluntarily submit to arrest or confiscation of your own property
5. if you are a trustee of property, defend that property (non-violently) from confiscation with your life
6. do not curse or swear
7. do not insult the opponent
8. neither salute nor insult the flag of your opponent or your opponent’s leaders
9. if anyone attempts to insult or assault your opponent, defend your opponent (non-violently) with your life
10. as a prisoner, behave courteously and obey prison regulations (except any that are contrary to self-respect)
11. as a prisoner, do not ask for special favourable treatment
12. as a prisoner, do not fast in an attempt to gain conveniences whose deprivation does not involve any injury to your self-respect
13. joyfully obey the orders of the leaders of the civil disobedience action
14. do not pick and choose amongst the orders you obey; if you find the action as a whole improper or immoral, sever your connection with the action entirely
15. do not make your participation conditional on your comrades taking care of your dependents while you are engaging in the campaign or are in prison; do not expect them to provide such support
16. do not become a cause of communal quarrels
17. do not take sides in such quarrels, but assist only that party which is demonstrably in the right; in the case of inter-religious conflict, give your life to protect (non-violently) those in danger on either side
18. avoid occasions that may give rise to communal quarrels
19. do not take part in processions that would wound the religious sensibilities of any community


We dont have to respond with violence, you can get the same outcome with out it with longer lasting rewards. I think that with the taxes that are being levied and the money they do have, being spent frivolously, we have to do something and do something now.

Means and ends

The theory of satyagraha sees means and ends as inseparable. The means used to obtain an end are wrapped up and attached to that end. Therefore, it is contradictory to try to use unjust means to obtain justice or to try to use violence to obtain peace. As Gandhi wrote: “They say, 'means are, after all, means'. I would say, 'means are, after all, everything'. As the means so the end...”

Gandhi used an example to explain this:

If I want to deprive you of your watch, I shall certainly have to fight for it; if I want to buy your watch, I shall have to pay for it; and if I want a gift, I shall have to plead for it; and, according to the means I employ, the watch is stolen property, my own property, or a donation.

Gandhi rejected the idea that injustice should, or even could, be fought against “by any means necessary” — if you use violent, coercive, unjust means, whatever ends you produce will necessarily embed that injustice. To those who preached violence and called nonviolent actionists cowards, he replied: “I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence....I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honor than that she should, in a cowardly manner, become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonor....But I believe that nonviolence is infinitely superior to violence, forgiveness is more manly than punishment.

:thumbsup:





It is the answer to this countries ills, but the people of this nation are 2 brain washed and "have cell phones that make pancakes so they dont want to rock the boat"GC. But now is the time to change all that, my well polished piece of glass, and it is our duty to "be the change we wish to see in the world"

BrandonJItaliano's photo
Sun 01/11/09 03:44 PM

13. joyfully obey the orders of the leaders of the civil disobedience action



Just another commie crock. Who's going to appoint the Fuhrer, whose orders I suppose to be "joyfully obeying"?


Your own, u are the bearer of your own soul, no one else

nogames39's photo
Sun 01/11/09 03:52 PM


13. joyfully obey the orders of the leaders of the civil disobedience action



Just another commie crock. Who's going to appoint the Fuhrer, whose orders I suppose to be "joyfully obeying"?


Your own, u are the bearer of your own soul, no one else


You are denigrating your own teacher.

Are you saying that he really meant absolutely nothing by his words: "the leaders of the civil disobedience action"?

BrandonJItaliano's photo
Sun 01/11/09 04:15 PM
No, he was the messenger of the truth of a many of man, u have to understand what your own truth is though, thats all. It may not work for you, that doesnt mean there is anything wrong with it though

nogames39's photo
Sun 01/11/09 04:28 PM
You know why his so-called "philosophy" appeared to work?

Because, you can't talk to Gandhi who has no balls to say anything at all. He hides behind his "choices" at the slightest sign of a challenge.

His message then, was " " (nothing).

That is why he is " " (nothing).

BrandonJItaliano's photo
Sun 01/11/09 04:44 PM
Edited by BrandonJItaliano on Sun 01/11/09 04:50 PM

You know why his so-called "philosophy" appeared to work?

Because, you can't talk to Gandhi who has no balls to say anything at all. He hides behind his "choices" at the slightest sign of a challenge.

His message then, was " " (nothing).

That is why he is " " (nothing).



You own choice of words show why satyagraha works, ACTIONS SPEEK LOUDER THAN WORDS, because with out action words are nothing but hollow Rhetoric, but Action without words can change the world before you will ever know anything happened. Even a blind man can hear the words of a fool, but he cant see the actions of an honorable one

nogames39's photo
Sun 01/11/09 05:37 PM
Yea, yeah...

Fuhrer does know best.

BrandonJItaliano's photo
Sun 01/11/09 05:44 PM

Yea, yeah...

Fuhrer does know best.


Are u comparing Gandhi with Hitler? Now ive heard it all

nogames39's photo
Sun 01/11/09 05:51 PM
No, I am comparing the unquestioning followers of Hitler, to an unquestioning followers of any other cult.

BrandonJItaliano's photo
Sun 01/11/09 06:04 PM
See, i try to question everything that i try to understand. Im one of those people who try to find the best out of all faiths, as they all contain some truth, and make my own mosaic out of life. Ahimsa is just a huge part of it