Geez if I had no hope I don't know that I could get up in the morning. Dang you guys are depressing me all to hell..

Quit Resisting the Change... Resistance is Futile, Your destinctive knowledge and biology will be assimilated into our own.

I don't think so.

Show me where this magical change is. Left/Right both wings of the same predatory bird.

I keep asking: What Change?

How can I resist or quit resisting something I am not aware of?

I agree, America has spoken and they do want change. As mentioned earlier, Obama has put people from Bush's and Clinton's administation into power. He has voted to reinstate the patriot act. He offers no change in foreign policy as he wants more war, and has mentioned the "need" to increase federal funding in this matter 40 billion a year or more. If you read Obama's campaign website you will see this. Also, as the people told congress not to, Obama praised and voted yea on this "economic stabalization act". He votes 100% of the time with the democratic majority which, OMG, votes largely with McCain and most republicans as well... hmmm... Where is this "change" you speak of brother? I have seen none. I have not seen any intentions of bringing change either...

Please, i would love to see any actual information on policies that will bring about ANY major, positive change. It would be nice to see some hope...

May be the "Change" is that the name of the president changes?
I am tired of Bush myself, but c'mon, I need more than a different name and color.

Bush the 1st-V.P. and Prez 12 years
Bill Jeff- Prez 8 years
Bush the Lesser- Prez 8 years
Hillary Clinton- Sec. of State ?

How many years are we going to have the same 2 families hands on in the running of our country.

Change indeed.

But the Messiah is in charge now.... We should all bow before him and bask in his shadow of greatness while he brings about a drastic change that will cast away all our problems and fears while making our lives blissful and our country loved by everyone...

Hold on, almost out of coolaid....

WOW this thread was realy good with no blame games or insults untill this came in. It was a interesting thought provokeing thread that I was enjoying. No one blamed Bush or Obama or dems or repubs. Untill.........

Just a few thoughts here, not directed at anyone. For someone trying desperately to understand or at least see all sides, I can only voice what I see off the top of my head when I read everyones responses and articles.

I am beginning to think that no one, the republicans the democrats the independents the libertarians... none have answers that are going to prevent us from having some really trying times ahead.

If there is devision between the two parties there is also devision between all the other labels.

It's seems that everyone has some sort of major bone to pick that is in direct conflict with the others.

I have to say that some of the things that Obama is saying and not saying lately is bothering me. Some folks will make fun of my choice in Obama, even when I went out of my way to do as much research as possible on him. I knew for sure at least from my research on McCain and Palin that they would be more of the same and possibly worse.

Both Obama and McCain had an agenda, I didn't vote for his star power at all. I was never anyones FAN..

That still didn't mean that I would know all about Obama until he was actually president, just as those who voted for Bush didn't know what he would do until he did it.

So we Americans made a huge mistake in Bush, we too may have made another in Obama, but we won't know until he has the controls.

Look I am just starting to look at all sides here and frankly I can see problems with all sides. And this divide and concur thing is very evident to me, and is such a waste of energy, but it's not just with the two parties. I find that the third party people aren't all that honest in what they say either. I've been reading alot about Ron Paul lately and he isn't being completely honest about his agenda either.

But it seems that no party is willing to have a look at what is wrong with their own party, if we think people act starry eyed over Obama, it's the same for the other candidates and their supporters, they seem only interested in patting themselves on the back and calling up small deeds as major accomplishments.

I don't know how anyone can sort all this out when we all seem to despise any idea from the other.

It seems to be all about control and money and who's god will dominate the earth, and who ever has it, controls everyone. Glad I am 58 and not 28 at this point.

I pity the young person that has no bias yet that comes in here to try to figure it all out. Hell I have been around the block and even I am having a difficult time trying to get at the actual truth of anything.

I always thought I was a liberal because I love people, I care about people and I don't want to see people take advantage of others, and I believe in free speech and all that other stuff. But reading so much lately I am not sure what label I would be comfortable with. I just don't know that any of your labels will work for me.

Anyway as always I am a bit long winded but just saying what's coming into my head as a non-expert in anything...

Bo2u,

This is so divided, because it was divided purposely. While we are divided, bankers rule the earth. (by Bankers, I do not mean people working in banks, or loans, savings, etc., I mean those who control FED).

It is divided illogically, because logical division will not last. Think of it as a cut across the grain.

There is absolutely no reason to support any side, since they do exactly the same thing. They make you busy arguing, while they use your wealth to do their own bidding.

Bush, Clinton.... Obama.. There is no difference at all. I used to hate Clinton because he is a communist. But I now see that Bush is a communist too. And I looked at Obama and he is a communist. What change?

Different name, different face, different race? Like I cared!
I want different substance! Obama will do exactly same things that Clinton and Bush did, he will keep "sharing the wealth".

The people who "embrace the change" are not unlike drunks, that embrace a new bottle with a different label. This will not solve their problem.

Hope this explains where I stand.

I don't see where Clinton is a communist by definition. Or Bush, least of all. If you mean just the wealth sharing part, I don't see Bush as a sharing kinda guy frankly unless its to his benefit socially in his group to make him look good, and accept with those with great wealth already.

I often feel like some folks are a bit selfish when talking about sharing the wealth with the less fortunate. After all individually they aren't even getting a fraction of what some on the hill are stealing from the tax payer.

But I do wonder about people calling others communist, what is that all about?

I don't know 'right now' what change Obama is talking about, but I do what to find out.

I see many who talk about wealth sharing blaming those who have never known wealth more than those on wall street that take it right in front of your face.

People with nothing typically have to jump through hoops for any help they get. Wall street seemed to only have had to ask and collect. And those who get large sums of money for their states entertainment and such, aren't thinking about those less fortunate either, only that giving to the less fortunate might cut in to their sums of money for their projects, that often are frivolous.

Hell I might agree with you but I am not sure I understand all the anger at Obama who has not yet done anything in office.

Maybe I am all wrong. I will know soon enough when I have all this insanity figured out, if I ever do..

Well, here I am, and I have no anger to Obama. I am indifferent to him.

This would be unfair, if he didn't say what he wants to do. Because he did, I don't think it is unfair for me now to form my opinion of him.

I see him as evil, same as Bush or Clinton, but, and it is very important but, at least I am not afraid of him, since I think he is a toothless tiger.

Which makes me simply indifferent about Obama.

You don't see where Clinton is a communist by definition? I guess this may depend on the definition you're using.

Here is the definition by Marx and Engels themselves:

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equal distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.


Thusly, anyone who acts out on this list or supports it, is a communist.

Now, what if you are a communist as well? Do you like any of the things on the list?

I am not going to blame you, believe me, majority of people in this country are communists.

As for the presidents, which one, be it Bush, Clinton or Obama, did not work to further the propositions required by communists? (I promise, Obama will).

Wow that is alot to digest with a slamming headache right now, but I will come back and try to figure out what all that means.

There seems to be a few definitions of communism, I need to have a look closer at this.

Damn the world is so complicated. I could use a little blissful ignorance about now. Thanks Nogames, I will be back tommorow to have a better look at what you have said, thanks for taking the time.

boo