OK, too many issues to follow, anyone want to fill me in on the
following? I have not looked into it as the following discussion
occured today, anyone have the answeres.

I was told that the U.S. does not have enough foundries to process crude
oil into gasoline, and that the govenment had actually offered some of
the land of forts/bases that were closed, to anyone who would open new
ones. My responce was, there seems to be no shortage, as long as we pay
the price.

The responce went like this: The laws and regulations that govern the
running of foundries require regular shut downs and inspections,
maintenance, upgrades and repairs. OK - so? Because of this production
can not be met at the rate of use. This forces the major oil companies
to "use" the reserve that the Federal Government has stocked.

Of course my next question is: How does the Federal Gvnt get their
reserves. The answer was - from the foundries just like the major
service/gas chains. Next question: So that means the govnt. pays the
same price as the service companies? Responce - not sure.

Next question: so when the reserves are used, how is it replaced?
Answer was: by the foundries when they as a percentage of their
production has to be sold to the govnt.

OBVIOUS NEXT QUESTION: So who gets paid for the govnt's reserve fuel
use. Answer: I guess the govnt.

So my next question, laughing now cos I feel somewhat like an American
Fool - So why would anyone in any political office suggest that there be
any kind of investigation as to the volital nature of fuel prices.
silence

HELP - IS THIS TRUE. Is the government in fact sucking us dry and using
propaganda and misdirection to lead us in another direction. ANYBODY
HAVE REAL ANSWERS?

I'm going to answer part of this, as I understand it.
First part of the problem is refineries. It costs a lot to build one and
there are a lot of regulations on the industry. Many of the regulations
are environmental, and some safety. Certain areas refuse to allow
refineries to be built in their area. California is a good example. Oil
companies may find it more attractive to build refineries in other
countries, such as Venezuela, where they can be nationalized and
effectively stolen from them. In any case no new refineries have been
built in the United States for many years, though I can not put a number
on the years, I have the feeling that it is in fact decades. Another
problem with building refineries is that it is very expensive and may
take years to complete.

Gasoline use in the US approaches the production available from the
local refineries. If some refineries go down there is trouble with
supply and price rises, as in the Katrina episode.

I have heard some talk about micro-refineries to produce small
quantities of gasoline. I expect there may be more of that in the
future. Now it is quite popular in some third world countries and some
regions of Russia.

Next issue, the national oil reserve. The government purchases large
quantities of oil and stores it in different locations. One location is
the salt dome in Texas near Beaumont. When oil supply is low they sell
some to the refineries to stabilize the market. It works pretty well so
far and yes the gov't gets paid for the oil. Ultimately it is a
strategic reserve and to be used in emergency. Presumably the idea was
in case of need by military, but I suppose now it has become a buffer
for the economy as well.

Gasoline price volatility, good question. people like to say lots of
things about why the price fluctuates. One problem that exists is the
purchasing of oil futures by traders. When oil supply looks like it may
be interrupted large traders start buying futures on the market. This
drives up the price. If all the supplies are bought, after all, there is
none available to purchase. Refineries may have shortages in supply, or
have to pay higher prices on the spot market, since they can not easily
buy long term supplies on the futures market.

The margins made by the refineries are reasonable, given the nature of
business. They have a large investment and high costs and they make a
fixed margin on their wares. There may be some specialty pricing for
custom blends of fuels, but generally the margins are pretty steady. If
the price of oil goes up, and their margins remain the same, then their
profit goes up as a function of the cost and margin, but the margin as a
percentage remains essentially the same.

Similarly the oil companies work on a fixed margin. If oil costs a $1
and they mark it up 30% they make less than if the oil costs $100 and
they mark it up 30%. So if the price of oil goes up the oil companies
make more money, but as a margin of their costs, it remains the same.
Middle men such as traders and retail outlets see a lot of the balance
of the revenue.

Retail dealers can capitalize on the fluctuations in the market price by
raising their price quickly when others raise theirs, possibly before
they see their own costs go up. Then on the falling gas prices they can
be slow to drop their prices. Entirely optional.

You mentioned middle men.

In this area prices can vary up to 10Cents a gallon in a 4 mile stretch.

Its called gougeing. That difference is not from the oil companies but
from the merchant selling the fuel.

I thought there were laws to prevent that.

I think I see your point Phil - but that does not answer the question
entirely of who supplies the government, how much they pay, and who they
sell to and how much they make versus paid for same.

It also does not quantify the daily changes, that used to be calculated
in partial pennies, to dimes and quarters.

Then there's the other issue brought up on how a station at one corner
is charging up to .40 more per gallon from the station down the street.
Or even why gas in Illinois, for instance, can be as much as .60 cents
higher a gallon than 80 miles away in Indiana on a pretty regular basis,
and then suddenly for two weeks, Illinois is cheaper.

It is not the cost of transportation, as that would not explain the
sudden decrease seen in an area that is most normally higher from
another.

I also don't think it's the "chain" of a particular station as I can see
a substantial difference between, say, a Speedway on the corner and a
Speedway 5 miles down the road. So who or what is actually driving or
determining what gas will cost on any given day at any given station?

state fuel tax can explain state to state differnce in price

but the price change due to what might happen is price gouging

iran takes brit military personel price goes up because
of possible conflict

well the price has not gone back down actually it continues to climb

gouging is only illegal if yer not lining the pockets of the corrupt
politicions in office

but hey what do i know

I was in a gas station the other night. I drove 2 miles for gas cause
they were 10 cents a gallon cheaper then the station right across the
street.

While I was there one of the owners competetiors called and demanded
that the station owner raise her prices cause she was taking away all
his business.

Was good to her her tell him off.

LOOK

Exxon
Texaco
and Shell all had the biggest profits EVER IN THEIR HISTORY OF LIFE IN
THE LAST 4 YEARS.

The real reason we went into Iraq was not for oil, it was to stop the
oil.

Sadam was going to sell more oil and also he wasnt going to sell it in
the US (fake) dollar anymore.

This government's military has soldiers gaurding oil plants in Iraq and
making sure it does not work, if it worked then the price would go down.

Just lik Chavez, in SA, he was willing to sell us oil for 50 bucks a
drum and he was even going to give us oil for free after Katrina, but
Bush and company told him to FUQK off and labeled him a COMMIE....LOL
and even the un-Godly man Pat Robertson said he should be assainated.


These games are easily understood if you just use your mind that God
gave you and turned the TV off and did some research.


_________________________________________

Lebonon, Iran, Iraq, Syria, N Korea, Lybia and Cuba
These countries do not use the "Central Banks," (the globalist's banks)
and are all on the US's Terrorists List.

And Chavez is adding his country to the list because he isnt playing
ball with this twisted government.

bear -

believe it or not, some of what you said was truthful,lmao.

how ever we stopped guarding those refineries over there over a year
ago, that was one of the first things we let the iraqi's do for
themselves ( i only know this because i was there and seen it for
myself).

chavez did offer oil for the katrina disaster- but were his motives for
helping the people, that we probably wont agree on. the countries that
you sited with the exception of lybia are on the terrorist list (lybia
came off last year i believe- maybe im wrong but im pretty sure thats he
case) and they do not use the world bank not because they dont want to
but because they are not allowed to.

exxon and the big oil exec's making money in a capitalist society- hey
cant really blame them for turning a buck, BUT it is definately a crappy
deal them doing it at the expense of honest hard working people...Id
have to fault their moral compasses.

as to the original topic- i wish i knew more, the only thing i do know
that hasnt been mentioned is the fact that a new oil refinary has not
been built in the US in over 25 years. with all the booming this country
went thru in the last quarter century you would think that someone
somewhere would have said, time for an upgrade in our production but
nope hasnt happened. so like bear said ( and it pains me to say that)
follow the money. who's lining their pockets- and open your minds to the
possiblity that it reaches far past the borders of texas with its own
oil men.

I would like to get a better understanding about the national reserves
and how the hell that system works, if anyone has any legit places to
research that, thats not congecture it would be greatly appreciated.



doc

you all have such excelent replies on this topic i learned a lot too.
somthing i heard or read not sure, but if we would stop buying gas for
one day a week that, it would devistate them. wonder what would happen
if we would stop buying gas two days a week but it must be all of us not
buy any gas on tuesday or friday. not sure i'm making any sense lol

I think it would be cool if we all stopped buying gas for a month.

Reckon that would way hurt their projected profit margin.

I know this discussion is in regards to the US, however, just wanted to
add my two bobs worth, we here in my small town 100 miles from a larger
town, pay $1.14 a litre, which is one quarter of a gallon...do the
math...

And we have apparently vast reserves of crude oil...

Is why I brought the pushbike back out of retirement, and the kids and I
ride local, up to about a six, nine mile radius...(10-15 km)..we went to
a small four cylinder van, and share drive, when going to the bigger
town, we split the fuel costs, and reduce emissions in one go.

yay yay yay

good job lee

them dang oil barons anyway

Jess, thanks for filling us in. I know that many outside our country
are also experiencing this phenomena. I have had many friends convert
back to the better gas milage vehicles and many who have never ridden or
have not for a long time are getting prepped for several months of
motorcycle cruizing. In Indiana the state is looking into better mass
transit which has failed, been tried and failed again. This time they
are trying for transport by rail, instead of by street. Actually sounds
to me like a huge tax increace to those of us who are already stretching
our budget and we can certainly not expect access to these NEW rails for
several years. Makes me wonder what the agenda really is, and if this
is some kind of political manuver that began at the federal level. And
we know for a fact that oil is one of those businesses that runs this
country thought political manipulations.

just for a look at the past

Drill for shale oil, we have enough for 1 trillion barrels of oil according to estimates. Stupid green movement.

If Goodyear and GM had not bought out the Electric Trains and Trolleys in the big city's and small towns across the US and then dismantle them. There wouldn't be a fuel problem the problem would be disposing of all that chemical waste, gas and diesel.
Or if the politicians had keep their word after the fuel shortages of the seventy's therre wouldn't be a fuel problem.
I had a 1968 VW that got 30 city 36 hiway A friend just bought a hybrid that gets 28, my 5 year old ford get 28 and cost 20.000 Less, and it will pass smog.

I didn't see this anywhere,so I figured I ought to mention the devaluing of the dollar.