Hi Lynann, it's been a very long day and I am not absolutly sure I understand what you are saying.

Is there something you feel I am missing personally? We all have a limited point of view so I would appreaciate any thing you feel I am missing.

I don't see Warren having any intention of analyzing the possible affects of change beyond what he has. Or Obama for that matter. Warren is not going to change from the christian view of baptists for sure, his wealth would go right out the window.

We already know what the christian right feels is the affect on the country as a whole, that hasn't change in decades. Tell me what I am missing.

Hey Winx, here's a link for you, I had not read this before.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=61253Obama promises

To Invisible and anyone else not familiar with what this thread is about, I offer the following.

The day after Obama won the election, Proposition 8 passed in California. The proposition turned around a previous state order to allow marriage of same sex couples, thus dissolving the thousands who had taken advantage of the states legal marriage status. Not only were those people denied the right to declare their love and commitment to a partner, they were, effectively denied access to, protection from and benefit of every law in that state dependent on the union of marriage.

The Reverend Rick Warren is pastor of the very huge and very influential evangelical church in Orange County California. Rev. Warren was a staunch supporter of proposition 8 and the influence of that support was passed on to the parishioners, many of whom responded by actively and passively (with donations) following suit in supporting proposition 8.

Reverend Warren made many claims during his campaign against same sex marriage; which cannot be misconstrued as anything less than bigoted. Furthermore, he has succeeded in making a case within the law that supports the view of a religion, which is clearly and ethically a Constitutional violation. What he claims to be connected to marriage, one man and one woman, has nothing to do with a fair and just law. Religion and religious values that deeply affect the rights of others have no place in the law of any country who supports full equality of all people with regard to human rights and legal rights.

Unfortunately, Reverend Warren also campaigned for Obama; that support held great value toward Obama’s election. So while Reverend Warren warrants a highly acclaimed position in the spotlight of the critically historical event of the inauguration of the first U.S. black President, the GLBT must be content for their role in getting Obama elected by their portrayal in the same inaugural as taking part in the parade as the gay marching band.

To us, this might be akin to having a watermelon stand at an African American booth at the inaugural ceremony. It’s wrong on so many levels, yet our anger is not even understood by those African American, who have only been equalized citizens for some 50 odd years.

The betrayal may yet be amended, but Obama will need to make concessions that will not make him popular with the Christian fundamentalists.

So we suck it up and make requests, with HRC (Human Rights Committee) and many others on our side, we can only do one thing, continue to request Obama’s assistance as THE OTHER supporters that helped get him elected. The hope is that Obama really has the capacity to find the value in those such as Reverend Warren, and at the same time see the value of equality and his role in making it a reality.

Thanks- boo2u for keeping this in the public eye. It is news, it is current events and it affects every person in this country and in the world. For what we do here, has an affect in the global community.

Thanks for that post, Red. I really wasn't going to start the topic but I have been impressed with the fact that his site has allowed it to be posted in the first place. I half expected it might be removed.

I didn't think about Warren's contribution to Obama's campaign, didn't register for some odd reason.

When you can get someone that is head of a MEGA church you have some power. Power over people is what Warren is all too familiar with. As are the other mega church preachers, they know that this issue if ever passed could bring down christianity in a very short time. If the most controversial divisive thing in the bible is found to be faulty, it would hurt those who expect the bible to be fact.

This assures that we will be fighting this until the last man leaves this earth. Or so they hope, I guess Warren and his lot think that gays will some day just stop being gay and he won't have anyone to threaten his good life, paid for by this loyal supporters who think as they are told to think.

Tonight on Dateline, Warren says even if he was told that gays were born gay he would not change his views. That being born gay is the same as being born with shyness, something you get over.. That kind of ignorance among the majority is pretty dang pathetic but pretty scary too when you think of the Mega churches and their determination to convert every last man on earth.

Only someone with the willingness to think for one self could see right through this. But this world has survived on BS for so long it wouldn't know what to do with out it.

All religions would be put on the spot and with good reason....

boo2u, I have enjoyed your honesty and your great ability to be so forthright about your own life. We need that. Harvey Milk tried to make people understand that hiding will never get anyone to change their opinion. It's only by getting to know other, as they really are, that we learn to accept who they are.



It is possible to overcome some the attributes we are born with, if the environment into which we are born nurtures a different kind of development. That's the reason I believe that those who are born with prepensity toward bigotry, can overcome. Unfortunately, I don't believe a straight person would ever really be happy if they were forced to be gay, which works in reverse as well. Imagine that! But I guess only bigots who lack the proper nurturing would not see that.

Keep up the great posts!

I was a rebel since birth I think, and that was sure something I would have no interest in changing ever, and it has kept me alive, kept me open enough to report physical abuse by so called christians.

I made the conscious decision at 17 to never ever ever give anyone power over me, and to never hide who I was. Though there were times that temporary holding it back was useful where bigots might have prevented me from working or living somewhere.

I personally don't want sh$t from those who would deny me the same rights they have, just because I choose my own way in life. Sure it some times makes me mad, but at the same time, I have what I need to get around their BS, even if it required me to have less in life, it didn't prevent me from being happy. That often kills some of them even more, that we might be happy with who we are..

who cares ..give them a sucker and tell them to shut up

Give who a sucker, jdcolvin?

give me a sucker...make it cherry...

Obama represents all Americans.

Warren represents many Americans with the same opinions as his.

We are all Americans and we don't all agree.

Silencing people gets us no where.

All I am saying is that in order for us to all begin to understand, appreciate and ultimately respect each other we need to acknowledge each other,interact with each other and open a dialogue.

That's the first step to change.

GAY SUCKERS FOR OBAMA...........

Oh, now that's intelligent!.

OK, THEY CAN BEND OVER THEN....................

imagine that.

Obama is gonna be a President for all Americans and not just the radical left

Oh, yes, the promise of equality.

I can see where this bothers the gay community. But..I sort of see where this man is just a token right wing. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? I'm hoping everything gets better with him working with all demographics.

Thanks for the link. But..I'm not sure that he's changed all of that.

I suspect there's a note of sarcasm there, but never the less one can hope that a president could muster the courage to work with the 'moderates' on both sides.

However how to do that is another matter considering how far apart one side is from another. I can only suppose that he is going to take the moderates on both sides and try to get something done.

Look, I have had my first, to me relatively minor disagreement with Obama over his choice of Rick Warren, but I am not going to let that keep me from seeing what he actually does when in office on an number of issues.

My republican and democratic friends screamed bloody murder to anyone that would listen warning about Bush, but he was elected anyway. I didn't spend all my time after that *****ing one way or the other, I wanted to see what he actually did considering we were stuck with him.

To me what he did wrong outweighed what he did right, but that's over now, and I prefer to focus on what is going to be the approach of Obama. I never expect what a man or woman campaigns on with be the final say, I'd be delusional to think so. But for sanity sake I want to see what is going to happen, and I won't be looking for mistakes as much as I will be looking for solutions to what's needed.

I would love to see both sides work together but I don't know if that is possible frankly.

I am of the opinion right now that Obama is avoiding worse choices, by picking Warren. That didn't stop me from initially reacting to Warren's remarks about gays and incest and pedophilia, but later I thought the Christan point of view is similar so he is just the safer choice for the invocation.

It still bothers me, but I also understand that we have other as important issues to deal with, so I am just going to let it go for myself. It won't be the first disappointment to the gay community and probably won't be the last, so not wishing to get further upset about something I can do nothing about personally. I'll let the younger folks deal with it, they are the ones that are going to have to deal with the next whatever...