sorry sweetheart sometimes its just makes u feel better even if ur body hurts

Yes I understand.

But you need to realize that to me this is like a sports commentator commenting on an event long after it had supposedly happened.

Ephesians isn't even one of the original gospels. Those parts of the Bible aren't much different that people posting their opinions today.

Besides, I've already taken it far deeper than that. My conclusion goes far beyond that.

It was the God of the Old testament who required blood sacrifices as atonments before he could forgive sins in the first place.

For this God to send his own son as an atonment for mankind would be utterly insane, IMHO.

We're talking about a God who is supposed to be all-powerful and can do anything he wants to do. Yet I'm supposed to believe that he can't forgive sins without first being appeased by a blood sacrifice?

I don't buy that. It's an utterly absurd notion to me.

The other claim is that God had to do it to appease Satan. That's even worse. A supposedly all-powerful God appeasing a fallen angel?

I don't buy either one of those ideas. Neither idea holds any merit as far as I'm concerned.

Furthermore, the Bible claims that God is unchanging.

Well, if he wanted people to stone sinners to death one minute, and then changes his mind about what he wants the next. How is that an unchanging God?

Too many of the Bible's original premises must be forfieted to make this story work.

There's just no way that Jesus could have been affilated with the God of Abraham. Much less sent by him on this mission via a virgin birth.

That would have been insane in itself.

If it was God's plan to have mankind nail Jesus to a pole so he could forgive them what kind of a message does that send?

That would be like God saying, "Here. Nail my Son to a pole and I'll forgive you of your sins!"

That'd be one sick puppy!

Moreover, if it was God's plan for the crucifixion then the people who nailed Jesus to the cross were doing the will of God!

Can't blame them!

The were doing just what God wanted evidently. In fact, they had no choice if this was God's plan all along.

So many things just make no sense at all.

Humans would end up just being pawns in a game where God writes up all the plans.

Jesus did not agree with the teachings of the Old testament to stone sinners to death.

He also did not agree with seeking revenge which had also been taught by the God of Abraham (an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth). Jesus taught forgiveness instead (turn the other cheek).

Jesus didn't have anything in common with the mythical God of the Old Testament. There's no way he could have been his Son.

The other thing also that would have truly been insane and showed much stupidity on God's part is this,...

God himself in the old testament commanded people to murder heathens and blasphemists. He said it was their duty.

So who stupid would God have had to have been to teach people this, and then send his "only begotten son" to them to claim to be God and challenge the teachings of the God of Abraham.

Anyone who nailed Jesus to a pole would have been doing precisely what the God of Abraham had told them is their duty!

So God most certainly couldn't complain when they did precisely what he had told them to do!

God would have to praise them for being so obedient to his word.

In fact, no one should believe the words of Jesus in light of what the Old Testament teaches.

The Jews got that part right!

There is no way, on so many levels, that Jesus could have been the Son of the God of Abraham.

That scenario just isn't a doable scenario.

In order to believe that you'd have to believe that the God of Abraham was totally inept as well as being utterly stupid.

I mean, clearly a lot of people seem to be willing to buy into this stuff.

But I don't see how it can possibly be true.

I might add also that the great Isaac Newton came to the same conclusion. A little know fact is that he studied the Bible even more than he studied physics! And he also concluded that there is no way that Jesus could have been the Son of the God of Abraham.

I wish my Christian parents would have told me that early on. Of course they probably didn't even know that little fact.

But no, you're not going to convince me by anything that is written in the Bible. There are far too many contraditions to try to explain away.

I'm totally convinced that Jesus was not the Son of the God of Abraham.

It's just not possible at all.

How can I sleep if you keep talking.. grin!

Brian, next time you feel that way, go off by yourself, concentrate on how you feel physically while your angry, or even while you might be feeling satisified that you got the last word. But be honest with yourself. Ask yourself how you really really feel as expressed by your body.

It's not really that your feeling better in your heart, it's often that you ego is temporarily hiding your hurt from the initial offense. If that makes sense.. I may not have explained it will because I am tired.

Now quit talking so I can sleep..

ok get ur sleep lady nite thanks true true

Great thread, Boo2u.

Also...if I might add....

your Beauty of Soul is showing.

Holding a grudge takes energy that I need for other things.

Abracadabra said:



I dont understand this Lucifer thing at all.This is the only verse in the bible that mentions Lucifer.

"Lucifer, son of the morning."

So just based on that alone, most Christians consider Lucifer to be Satan or the devil even though there is little biblical justification for doing so. In this verse "Lucifer" refers to the king of Babylon and Lucifer (the light bearer) is also called the "son of the morning" or morning star. The only other person that is referred to in that way is Jesus Does this mean that Lucifer is Jesus?

Back on topic, I dont hold grudges over petty crap although if someone actually perpetrated a horrible crime against me or mine, I might be hard pressed not to go after them. Im being honest here. I would hold them personally accountable for their actions. Thats just built into my nature although many would probably consider that a weakness of character.

Wow, I was not even considering that level of offense when I started the topic. And since no one has done anything that bad to me in my adult life, I can't really say how I would react. Hmm..

Come to think of it though, I can remember holding a grudge for my childhood abuse, and it could very well be where my temper came from, holding that inside and having certain things trigger it as an adult. I don't think I accounted. I was more thinking about my adult relationships beyond my childhood and nothing major.

I don't think I still hold a grudge from childhood experiences, but if it crosses my mind, it's still to this day not a pleasant thing to think about, but I have resolved that for me at least enough that it doesn't control my life as it might have early in adulthood.

Thanks Krimsa, hadn't even thought of really grievous offenses. I would hope that at this stage of my life I wouldn't hang onto things even bad things, for my sake at least if not for the offender.

Yes I wouldnt hold a long term grudge over someone cutting me off on the freeway. I know that sounds silly but people have been shot and killed in incidents of road rage!

Holy Moly, I wouldn't do that even if I hadn't learned anything else in life, LOL I like living too much..

Of course that is different than a grudge. A grudge in my own personal interpretation and experience is a stagnated and pointless emotion. It is the internalization of resentment and anger so it only harms the victim

Vengeance or a vendetta is turning that harbored anger outward but it is a conscious decision that takes place in the mind to perpetrate a hateful deed against another in order to "even the score." In Italian, literally, revenge, from Latin vindicta

I agree with the last paragraph, don't hold petty grudges, now if they try to make me a victim like Krimsa mentions, well, I would try to make sure they wished they had found someone else.