Very Nice! I like this.

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the spaghetti monster plants all this so called "evidence" btw

A couple of interesting things a person might learn from the bible.

Astronomy and Cosmology

Fact
The stars are too great in number to count

Bible verses
Genesis 15:5 Jeremiah 33:22 Hebrews 11:12

Discovered by science

19th Century AD with the advent of powerful telescopes. Prior to this, most thought there were no more than 6,000 stars (what could be seen with the naked eye from all points on the earth).

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Meteorology

The Jet Stream

Bible verses
Ecclesiastes 1.6

First discovered by airmen during WW II
look here at Intellicast's current graphical representation of the jet stream and you'll see it matches the Bible's description very nicely. Mount Everest, the highest mountain in the world. At its peak it's 29,028 feet. Yet the Jet Stream exists from 32,800 and 164,100 feet.

How was the author of Ecclesiastes able to give such an accurate description of the jet stream?

come on thread don't die!!!

bring the paddles!! clear!! *zap* *still flat lining
again!! clear!! *zap* ...
clear!! *zap*

ok, we've got a very weak pulse... it's not out of the woods yet though...

@ Bitty

interesting

charts and graphs rock

meh...

ok i'll bite...

we all know it is utterly impossible for man to look up into the sky, and seeing the vast number of the stars, use the expression "too many to count" without divine inspiration...

There are some things one could take away from the bible and qu'ran. But as is reminiscently human, there is good and bad. There is stuff about the bible that is cool, and stuff not so cool. The cool stuff does not mean it came from god. It is characteristically human of a time when heaps of foreskins and animal sacrifice were all the rage.

For every incidence of alleged scientific foreknowledge in the bible, the incidence of events going contrary to the laws of science and the biblical myths that have since been dispelled by modern science, that we readily overlook, are also too many to count. There is stuff that simply makes absolutely no sense whatsoever as well. If the god of the bible is all knowing, why so many mistakes that we must gloss over? This knowledge with imperfection seems, again, remarkably human to me...

God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day.

Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes

I'd mention the whole earth being created (with human and dinosaur co-existing..??) in 6 days thing, and earth being 6-10 thousand years old despite archeological evidence to the contrary but meh... religion, not rooted in reality and solid evidence can be modified to suit as we go along, so there no doubt will be some rationalization or the other to account for every single absurdity in the bible, it allows for its proponents to think on their feet... heck, entire sections of the bible should be disregarded by some christians because it conflicts with their beliefs or is proven to be false. I have one christian friend who told me that the entire old testament is disregarded.


Anyhoo, back to topic of post, which is not biblical scientific accuracy...

One theory... has more evidence to support it... than the other... which do you believe to be true...?

1) One method.... of acquiring knowledge.... has built in checks and balances.... has evidenciary support.... seeks to correct itself.... to acquire the best information possible.

2) The other ..... is right.... end of story.... (even after having been proven wrong... as has been done repeatedly... we just ignore the wrong bits..... or rationalise them away... perhaps the all knowing god who ghostwrote the bible was having a few bad days?

Which method do you believe to be more credible?

Seems easy right?

Well throw in the threat of punishment, as so painstakingly described in such great detail as the worst thing you would ever want to experience... for infinity... if you doubt the holy book of you indoctrination.

(Why do they take such pains to plan for unbelievers? Are they insecure about the believability of their claims? Whyever would they if the claims are truth?
Why is disbelief a bad thing... one would think that if i am ignorant of the truth, that is punishment enough for me and god should only look upon me with pity and try where possible to guide me toward the truth... why the punishment for my ignorance? Do you punish YOUR children for not knowing stuff? Does it make sense to believe god would?)

And also throw in the fact that indoctrination starts at an age when you are programmed through socialization to behave a certain way all your life. You learn as a child, through this socialization that you must wear the clothes you do, for example. Believing anything contrary to your indoctrination as you grow older would be akin to you going topless in society. ("bring up you child in the ways of the lord,and when he grows up he shall not depart from it" hmmm )

The choice doesn't seem so clear anymore does it.

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By the way...
god, according to the bible, says that we shouldn't add to, or take away from, any of his commands (deuteronomy 12:32)... lets get those stones ready to kill us some adulterers and people who work on the sabbath

(disclaimer: mods and my fellow minglers, the above statement was not to be taken seriously.)

That chart was perfect....lol.. Faith is nice but when faith is untested and not constantly challenged then it becomes blind faith. Blind faith ignores truth and evidence. Faith is to be tested and refined otherwise we will never reach the truth and we will never trully understand the universe around us or what lies beyond. Faith,Science and philosophy all share the same potential, but everything must be questioned and tested or we fail.

I'll take my faith over your science anyday though

as is your right

science and evidence is god's way of testing faith... and hell is uncomfy i hear

morning

mornin'

we really shudn't be this drunk so early in the morning

Let me help you keep the thread alive. I think the chart is funny. Im religious but I dont agree with much of the teachings. Im more a believer in science and I think science is a tool created by God that man is suppose to use to discover the universe and eventually find God.

Its ok to have faith but we are still suppose to use science to find God. Not just wonder around in the stone age stacking up giant boulders.

mornin' to you as well

thank you for your contribution

^You are welcome (thread bump)

I saw this quote on bash.org:
<@amz> the christian hell is also pretty cold, compared to its heaven
<@amz> it has liquid sulfur in it, so it can't be over 400 celsius... on the other hand, the bible describes the sun in heaven shining like 7 suns, each 7 times as bright
<@amz> which gives an estimate of 2000-3000 celsius

the sun in heaven is the special kind of cold burning sun

Revelation 21:23


Revelation 22:5


According to Revelation, there is no sun in heaven.