Yes but so far none that have claimed that trees where talking to them.

I really will eat my words if anything is proved otherwise.

I await the day.

According to the "scientific" definition of truth, no. But you don't need me to tell you that.

Exactly. Bravo. It reminds me of the word "sin" and how organized religion "owns" it. Watch what would happen if I used the word "sin" to describe actions that I judged to be harmful within my Universal Life Church of Brutal Truth and Honesty. Example:

"It is a sin to give candy to children."
"It is a sin to gossip." etc.

If I tried to start telling people what is or is not a sin the religious community would be all over me because they tend to "own" that word.

In the article above, the scientific community wants to "own" the word "energy" by defining it in their own way.

The fact is this entire universe is made up of energy and information which is constantly unceasingly exchanged and transfered.

E=mc2 translates into matter = energy. Matter is energy slowed down. A particle is a standing wave. Everything is light and sound which is vibration.

So what how can anyone claim that there are no energy fields? That is so absurd. If there were no energy fields everything would be mass chaos and people would be walking through walls.

Science does not own the word energy. They had better get used to it.

jb

<FACEPALM> <SHAKES HEAD>

It must be hard for you having to deal with so many people who just don't get it like you do. You never answered my question. Why is it so important for you to dispute people's personal, spiritual beliefs?

Fair enough.

Because science works. Because if new age energy worked it would be science. I really wish it would work. IF you can make it work show humanity how and make it science otherwise it is 100% fantasy. The most amazing thing is that which helps those that need help, if we could heal using some kind of as yet unknown energy source, THAT WOULD BE FABULOUS. I do not toss away anything that has value, but if you cannot demonstrate, or show, or use something . . . then is it really there? And even if it is, but has no use, cannot be demonstrated . . . then what good is it . . . it has no value. Even if the only thing you say is that this energy makes you feel better, well maybe we could find a way to use it as an antidepresent and get kids off these drugs . . . but again, when we study it, it has no lasting effects that are not demonstrated by taking a placebo . . . .

If it works use it. The end result is that this is the science forum, and I am fine with people believing in whatever they want, but if we are going to talk about things that can make a difference then it must be scrutinized enough to find out how to make use of it.

At the end of the day its that adage, put your money where your mouth is.

Things are only what we can prove them to be.

That's my point. If I use a New Age healing technique and I get better when my meds couldn't help then it worked. It doesn't matter that I couldn't prove it. The bottom line is that I got better. Just because it cannot be demonstrated HOW it worked, doesn't mean that I'm not better.

There have been studies to show now that prayer is beneficial in the healing of patients. Nobody can explain how, they just know that it helps.

What you are saying is that because something cannot be scientifically explained it should not be tried. If that logic was followed than nothing would ever be proven scientifically.

It does matter what if the kid next door dies . . . what if by understanding this we could save him . . .

Or what if you find out that this new age energy didn't save you, but you spent thousands on it, and could have got better sooner by spending that money on doctors. (Real story here BTW)

There are soo many people that get had by conns, when you are weak and potentially dieing you are your most vulnerable and its despicable that people would take advantage, but they do.

Actually Ruth we see a direct correlation between control groups that use social interactions vs groups that use prayer and the benefits are the same . . . prayer is the not the key component. We are social creatures, our systems react positively to human interactions nothing mysterious here.

Please don't misunderstand me. I have great respect for the scientific community and scientists who follow a "prove it or it doesn't exist" position are necessary to our society. We need people like that just as much as we need the shamans and holistic healers and spiritualists. We need both.

I am glad we have people like you to come up with modern medicine, technology and all the other things that make our lives safer and more comfortable. Scientific progress is GOOD. But, it's not the only thing in life. And, it is not the only truth just because it is not your truth.

I disagree, if it has an effect we can understand it.

Now you are talking about con-artists. I would never tell someone to rely on only a holistic approach to their healing. The fastest and best way to cure an infection is with antibiotics.

Please don't lump everyone who believes in these things into the same category as those who abuse it. There will always be people who will scam people. If I sell some poor unsuspecting elderly person a "gold bar" at a really great price and they later find out I sold them a gold painted brick, does that mean that gold bars don't exist?

And, I accept the fact that we disagree. My original question goes to the fact that your posts are often condescending towards those of us that believe in things you do not. All I am asking is that you respectfully disagree and not speak of us as though we were idiots.

I dont think that is what I am doing, perhaps you are assigning my words emotion and intention that is not there. Quote me and perhaps that would help.


As far as Homeopathic remedies, and holistic what not . . .
Link me a holistic remedy that you think works please. I might be able to find some information if we had a specific.

Nature is amazing, many times we have discovered a wonderful molecule becuase we paid attention to what is being used by Shaman and healers ect, but I will tell you in today's commercial markets I see way more junk then real medicine, WAY MORE like 99% of what is marketed is complete crap that either does nothing, or what is does it common among cheaper substitutes.

Trees don't talk like we talk. They do not have 'language.' The same can be said about animals. Communication on every level is done through empathy and feeling and a thing you would call pseudoscience which I call 'telepathy.'

E.S.P. and telepathy are how you can talk to animals and plants. There have been studies on how plants respond to light and sound. (Music and sunlight etc.) If they can respond to these things then they can probably respond to feeling and thoughts.

You can learn HOW TO DO THIS but it won't be done scientifically. You cannot do something if you think it is impossible. So the first step would be to open your mind to the possibilities and stop stating and believe that certain things are not possible just because they have not been scientifically verified.

If you are unwilling to do that, then you cannot learn how to do these things.

Semantics. Then we won't call it prayer. We'll call it positive social interaction. It works.

Why? If I give you a remedy I have used for myself and it works and you go and find studies saying it has not been proven to be beneficial does that mean it doesn't work for me?

Again, my question is, excluding scams that hurt people, why do you care if I use holistic healing methods when modern medicine has not helped me?

That is pure bull. If that were the moral to the story then you would have to tell everyone who believed that Jesus is coming back to rule the world and that he is the son of God and that he was born of a virgin to just shut up.

It has been stated that if a belief is common enough it should not be called "a delusion."

If religious beliefs were declared to be "delusions" then prayer of any kind in public probably would be banned.

JB, my mind is open, this can be proven however, if you can receive information from anything this can be falsified. I have made no judgments on anything ANYONE has said they believe, EVERYONE here just thinks I have becuase I have asked that we falsify this stuff, like I am a doubting thomas.

What everyone does not realize is that if it can be done, then it is science, and just has not been figured out yet. THAT IS MY BELIEF.

For you to say science cannot figure something out is knocking my beliefs, and goes against what I believe, and what has been shown to be through MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

Everything that has an effect can be figured out. If you can receive info from trees, it can be proven . . . if you do not wish to do so . . . that to me says there is doubt in your mind as to whether you can . . .

Someone says I can do a back flip I say show me, that doesn't mean I don't believe you can do a back flip I want to see how you did it.
now you are quote mining . . . not even playing fair at this point.

GO BACK, find what this was in reference to, come back and apologize for taking it out of context and maybe I will forgive you.

And if you find a widely accepted religion that speaks to trees I will eat my words . . .

This is getting silly.