2 Next
Topic: Prop 8
no photo
Fri 11/21/08 12:29 AM
who cares sheryl crowe!!drinker

Live and let live!drinker

PBug's photo
Fri 11/21/08 12:36 AM
Now I'm confused.

Even if you have democratic vote, aren't you still a republic?

So even if two wolfs and a sheep take a vote for tonights dinner, there is rules dictating that "No, it doesn't count even if majority wants to eat the sheep. You cannot."

scoundrel's photo
Fri 11/21/08 12:41 AM
insofar as the nation is composed of willing participants called States, the States retain the rights to internal government and also to abstain from federal legislation that interferes with the State's rights.

The states are not subdivisions of the national government, but participants, as opposed to when there were territories that petitioned for statehood. Alaska was a territory, when I was born, but gained statehood and independent rule within its boundaries. The independence enabled the State of Alaska to treat its native populations with quite a bit more caring and humane laws than the federal government had been doing.

Thomas3474's photo
Fri 11/21/08 12:56 AM
They already have the same rights as married couples in a domestic partnership.They get the same benefits a married couple gets.

I would certainly say they are trying to re-write the US constitution where it says marriage is between a man and a woman.

I would also say they are trying to abuse the system when people vote on a issue and win by a majority and they sue to overturn it.Majority rules in a democracy. It's the only way democracy works.It's the simplicity of this which continues to make the United States work.It is what makes us "united".Without the concept of "majority rules" there is no democracy.

I didn't vote for Obama along with 60 million other people but you don't see us protesting and calling people racist.You don't see us throwing lawsuits right and left.


FearandLoathing's photo
Fri 11/21/08 01:06 AM

They already have the same rights as married couples in a domestic partnership.They get the same benefits a married couple gets.

I would certainly say they are trying to re-write the US constitution where it says marriage is between a man and a woman.

I would also say they are trying to abuse the system when people vote on a issue and win by a majority and they sue to overturn it.Majority rules in a democracy. It's the only way democracy works.It's the simplicity of this which continues to make the United States work.It is what makes us "united".Without the concept of "majority rules" there is no democracy.

I didn't vote for Obama along with 60 million other people but you don't see us protesting and calling people racist.You don't see us throwing lawsuits right and left.




Didn't they add that to the constitution in 1999? Therefore according to the original constitution their rights are being taken, of course then again the original constitution had nothing on it about marriage. The old majority rules line, how about Bush's second term? Majority voted against him and the electoral college went against the votes and re-elected him. Honestly, there is no more democracy in this country than that of Mexico...the only difference is that we used to be truly democratic and then moved to a republic.

Thomas3474's photo
Fri 11/21/08 01:23 AM
Edited by Thomas3474 on Fri 11/21/08 01:32 AM
Marriage is not a right.Marriage is in the constitution(as a ammendment)and reads as follows...

This version of the amendment was introduced during the 108th Congress in the Senate as SJ 16 and in the House as HJ 56:

Marriage in the United States shall consist only of the union of a man and a woman. Neither this Constitution, nor the Constitution of any State, nor State or Federal law, shall be construed to require that marital status or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon unmarried couples or groups.

I am not going to comment on Bush's second term because that is old old news and has been talked about to death already.If you think the laws and government of Mexico are superior to the United states you might want to take a cross country drive across Mexico.If you think you could take the government of Mexico and put it in the United states and this country would run more efficient you are really lost.Americas government is the role model of every country in the world.We have the best economy,we have the highest paid workers anywhere in the world,we have the best health care,people live longer on average then anywhere in the world.

I would like your opinion on what country you believe has a better and more efficient government.And please don't give me a country like Iceland or Poland.





FearandLoathing's photo
Fri 11/21/08 02:08 AM
Edited by FearandLoathing on Fri 11/21/08 02:18 AM

Marriage is not a right.Marriage is in the constitution(as a ammendment)and reads as follows...

This version of the amendment was introduced during the 108th Congress in the Senate as SJ 16 and in the House as HJ 56:

Marriage in the United States shall consist only of the union of a man and a woman. Neither this Constitution, nor the Constitution of any State, nor State or Federal law, shall be construed to require that marital status or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon unmarried couples or groups.

I am not going to comment on Bush's second term because that is old old news and has been talked about to death already.If you think the laws and government of Mexico are superior to the United states you might want to take a cross country drive across Mexico.If you think you could take the government of Mexico and put it in the United states and this country would run more efficient you are really lost.Americas government is the role model of every country in the world.We have the best economy,we have the highest paid workers anywhere in the world,we have the best health care,people live longer on average then anywhere in the world.

I would like your opinion on what country you believe has a better and more efficient government.And please don't give me a country like Iceland or Poland.







Uh...was the best economy, were the highest paid workers, had the best health care...and it wouldn't surprise me to see the average age of death to drop. As far as economy goes there is about five or so countries ahead of us, starting with Luxembourg, Germany. If we were to go off governing of the people I would have to say Canada has it right so far. A more efficent government? Properly ran, Communism. By the way the United States ranks 37th in healthcare versus other nations, France sits on top. As far as the economy United States ranks 6th at the top is Luxembourg. I cannot find any statistical measurement of the highest paid workers in the world...but I would assume we don't top that list either.

Richest countries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
http://www.aneki.com/richest.html

Healthcare: http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Thomas3474's photo
Fri 11/21/08 03:24 AM
I do admire that I can have a intelligent debate with you and facts are what win debates.I was surprised to learn that lexumberg was in fact on top of many lists.With a population of only 480,000 though it is a poor debate as the economy of California has a $1.543 trillion GDP alone.That easily buries $49.531 billion of Lexumberg alone.The United states economy is the #1 economy in the world at $13.81 trillion.No other country comes close to this.

You were right that Lexumberg leads a Higher income per capita than the United states but only by a few thousand dollars.Population wise The top 25 riches cities in California can easily beat Lexumbergs IPC more than twice. Also if you try many websites you will find a wide fluctuation with the US being second,third,or forth.

I will admit that Canada is a great country.I only live 2 hours from the border and have spent a great deal of time in Canada.Canada is nearly identical in government compared to the USA.Despite it's size Canada only has a little over 33 million people.There is little doubt that Canada could exist with out the United states.It's economy is almost totally dependant on ours.

You actually spoke like you were well educated until you said Communism was a better way to run a country.Are you serious? frustrated Wow that was a dumb statement.You really think the government having total control and the people not having no power is the way our government should run this country?And you call yourself a anarchist???I suppose you think it's ok for the government to come in and take your business away?I am at a loss.No educated,rational,or high ranking official will ever say Communism is the way to run a country.






(2007).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California


PacificStar48's photo
Fri 11/21/08 03:45 AM


I am against prop 8 for the simple reason that the gays seem to think their causes triumph over every single law in the USA no matter how absurd.Myself and many others see that this is not just about marriage,but a large force of people trying to rewrite,override,abuse,and run this country like a dictatorship.I have been heavly involved in politics for the last 10 or years and have never heard such nonsense.

Or disabled people wanted to marry legally. Or

Interacial people wanted to marry legally.

Or people of different religions wanted to marry legally.

Or women to decide who they wanted to marry legally.

There is no such thing as seperate and equal. Cival Union is baloney.

And there are plenty of Christian same sex couples that follow bibical teachings.

No I don't agree with outing private people for how they vote but a lot of the money that was spent to defeat the issue was to buy outright lies about the effects it would have in classrooms. I don't see where it is right for money from outside a state is allowed to dictate the laws in another state. And the vote was close and there was some dubious activity on the voteing by the those against comeing into nurseing homes and signing up dementia patients to vote because I saw it with my own eyes.



Yep... i'm sure fighting for equal rights is likened to "rewrite,override, abuse, and run this country like a dictatorship."

Since when in America did any law be changed on the first attempt? Very rare I assure you. I know I have written legislation.

transientmind's photo
Fri 11/21/08 03:56 AM
There's a great deal that our government should not dictate. Gay agendas and Christian agendas only clash if their philosophy is trying to dominate rather than coexist.

Let 'em marry, doesn't hurt me anymore than Christians trying to gain control makes me look like a magalomaniac.

PBug's photo
Fri 11/21/08 05:16 AM

I do admire that I can have a intelligent debate with you and facts are what win debates.I was surprised to learn that lexumberg was in fact on top of many lists.With a population of only 480,000 though it is a poor debate as the economy of California has a $1.543 trillion GDP alone.That easily buries $49.531 billion of Lexumberg alone.The United states economy is the #1 economy in the world at $13.81 trillion.No other country comes close to this.

You were right that Lexumberg leads a Higher income per capita than the United states but only by a few thousand dollars.Population wise The top 25 riches cities in California can easily beat Lexumbergs IPC more than twice. Also if you try many websites you will find a wide fluctuation with the US being second,third,or forth.

I will admit that Canada is a great country.I only live 2 hours from the border and have spent a great deal of time in Canada.Canada is nearly identical in government compared to the USA.Despite it's size Canada only has a little over 33 million people.There is little doubt that Canada could exist with out the United states.It's economy is almost totally dependant on ours.

You actually spoke like you were well educated until you said Communism was a better way to run a country.Are you serious? frustrated Wow that was a dumb statement.You really think the government having total control and the people not having no power is the way our government should run this country?And you call yourself a anarchist???I suppose you think it's ok for the government to come in and take your business away?I am at a loss.No educated,rational,or high ranking official will ever say Communism is the way to run a country.






(2007).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California





I think you missed the "properly run" part of his argument.

Pure democracy is form of gang control. You got the biggest gang, your word is the rule. That's why most civilized countries are a republic at some form or another.

Anyway, it is curious that you promote the economy of United States as counter-argument.

United states, as a whole, is not anymore a country that everyone looks up to. Education is a mess expect for the top universities, economy is in crisis, huge amount of criminals compared to the population, healthcare is horrible, human rights are violated openly...

Only things that keeps United States as "the number 1", is the amount of material and people... Just raw resources.

RKISIT's photo
Fri 11/21/08 05:22 AM
hell i think marriage should be abolished period. and just give everyone benefits as if they were married.

TJN's photo
Fri 11/21/08 05:31 AM

hell i think marriage should be abolished period. and just give everyone benefits as if they were married.

i second that

2 Next