ok I still do not see a diffrence between the ones that flew the planes in the towers and those that bomb abortion clinics.

The only real difference is the number of people killed.

Other than that, there is no difference.

I do not either. Both are acts of terror. Both are wrong.

But I do not say Son of Sam or Oswald has anything to do with you.

Because they do not.

Niether do radicals who bomb abortion clinics have anything to do with me or me them.

Both cases you or me are not responcible for radical deviant behavior of a few

Would you put your life on the line for your family?

Does that make you a terrorists?

I just have a bigger family. If we are terrorists who would put our lives on the line for others even strangers and teach this is right.

Is this any different than your family teaching that you protect your own at any cost?

If so. Then I agree we are both Terrorists Abra

Both actions were wrong. I don't believe you will find anyone but the most fringe and radical who would say that the abortion clinic bombers were right in their actions. Christians cannot break the laws of the land, unless it forces them to 1) Commit murder 2) Worship Idols or 3) Commit sexual immorality. A Christian doctor should refuse to perform abortions, but no Christian is justified in the scriptures by killing an abortion provider.

There's no strawman.

I said, "I think a better question would be to ask if anyone believes that Jesus would want anyone to die for his sake?"

Why would anyone think that Jesus would want them to die for their belief in him?

I personally don't believe that Jesus would want that.

I think this is just another place where Christianity as a religion got grossly derailed and demented.

As soon as someone thinks that they are dying for a belief in their God, religion gets UGLY!

Period.

No, you as an individual are not responsible for those acts but religion is.

EXACTLY!!!

And the argument given is that those people who did those thing weren't "true Christians" or whatever.

But that a moot point because it was still the demented religion that caused them to think that way!

Clearly the religion isn't very successful in conveying proper morals. It supports bigotry and hatred all too easily!

And that's where the religion as a whole falls flat on it's face.

It's not about individuals.

It's about a religion as a whole, and what it can be used to support.

The Biblical God told people to murder heathens and sinners!

It's in the Bible!

So there you go.

The saying Die for him maybe is confusing.

That is saying he died for the world. We should be willing as him as a follower if we believe he is the chosen Messiah to die for others. Who they had the same problem understanding. That is why he gave parables about who is your brother. Who is a true friend.

In doing so he is saying these are all my children when you go to bat for them it is the same as going to bat for me.

Meaning they are very important. Do not look down on your fellow man for who he is. Like civil rights but protect those who are doing right and you are doing it for my names sake.

Like defending your cousin because he is part of your family. You have the same grandfather

Are books in your house responcible for you. If someone does something wrong do you say it this darn books fault.

religion is not responcible for anything its the person who commits the crime.

I am starting to think you just want to fight religion at all cost.

Through all your knowlege out the window and attack.

By doing so you are doing the same thing that you claim religion does. or the few radicals.

You have created your own religion of attacking others.

For no real reason.

Alright Miles, you win.

I agree.

Truly I do.

I agree with what's going through your mind. The pure thought of dying for Jesus.

The PROBLEM with this whole thing is that so many people actually take this to mean is that they would die for Christianity!

They can't seperate the religion from Jesus.

For many people, to believe in Jesus, is to believe in the Bible, is to believe in Christianity, blah, blah, blah.

So truly to ask someone if they would be willing to die for Jesus is a vague question at best.

Because for a lot of people Christianity IS JESUS!

The Bible IS JESUS!

I mean, I believe in Jesus in my own way. I wouldn't die for my belief in him because I think that would be utterly asburd.

I also don't believe that he was born of a virgin, died for our sins, and rose from the dead.

I believe like the earliest Christians. That Jesus was a spiritual teacher not unlike Buddha. He was not sent by the God of Abraham, nor did he die for the sins of man.

They earliest Christians believe that the Jews crucified Christ for blaspheme.

And no one could blame them if they had because the God of Abraham told them to murder blasphemists!

And Jesus clearly taught things aginst what the God of Abraham taught.

The God of Abraham CLEARLY taught people to murder heathens and sinners. They were still doing it in Jesus day because the God of Abraham and instructed them to do this very thing.

The God of Abraham also told people to seek revenge (and eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth)

But Jesus taught people to be forgiving and turn the other cheek.

CLEARLY Jesus was going AGAINST the teachings of the God of Abraham.

It would make perfect sense for the Jews to murder him as a heathen for blaspheme just like the God of Abraham demanded that they should do!

In fact, when you think about it, the God of Abraham would have had to have been a completely IDIOT to have sent his son down as a mortal man to CHANGE his laws after he just got done ordering people to murder heathens and blasphemists!

Anyone who killed Jesus would have been doing PRECISELY what the God of Abraham had commanded them to do!!!

Jesus can't possibly have been the son of the God of Abraham unless the God of Abraham was a complete idiot.

No-one that know of has killed anyone because of the cat in the hat.

Now if for many yrs. people have killed each other because they could not agree no whether the cat should have messed up those kids house, then yes, I would say it was the books fault.
I people started to breed hate and intollerance due to their interpitation of the cat in the hat, then yes I would say that this book is not a good book.
But it does not.
Only books that profess to be the word of god insites such hate and pits man against man.

There is one truth I cannot argue.

I am going to die one day.

well you have your beliefs and I have mine.

I also do not believe in the chr-stian religion. All you have to do is watch old movies of characters of 1000+ years ago and they have a cross on thier uniform and a shield that has a big cross on it and a sword made to look like a cross.

The cross to me represents death. Period.

I will have nothing to do with it and I do not believe as any chr-stian.

I refused to utter the word/name as Jc. i will not either.

Now i read from basically the same book but we have went back and any place in the NT that does not seem to agree with the Torah we look at closely.

It is alway a mistranslation to fit an agenda.

It is hard to relate to people because they think I am a Jew or a Chr-stian. I am niether as I am sure you are well aware of.

I believe certain things as tenents of what Yahshua showed us in the NT. But he was rejected by the Jews and his Jewish heritage later on was rejected by the chr-stian.

The name given them was given to them by people who made fun of them. They called themselves simply The Way.

I understand your frustration as know matter what proof I can show and we are reading from the same book they refuse it.

It does not go along with what the church teaches.

If anyone is at fault for what you all are saying it is not the Bible.

It is the leaders who twist the meaning and incite people to go out and protest save souls.

Like if they believe in Yahweh that he needs them for that.

Nowhere does it say such a thing. Sure you give a testimony of your faith but it is Yahweh that changes hearts not the believer.

This shoving as you probally call it down your throat is wrong.

Speaking out peacefully about wrongs is ok.

The bible has got a bad wrap and that comes alot from the generation before us who started to see a big change in the 60's and got radical.

Your going to Hell was a battle cry.

Not positive teachings but teachings of fear.

They were wrong then as they are now.

I understand your frustrations.

I have them also.

But the Book is not the problem it is the Twisting and lying and power hungry thugs who want a following and get radical doing it.

Large organizations usually have a person who can excite the people and when they can accomplish this they hold alot of power.

They get them all worked into a frenzy and suggestions become commandments to people.

It is the same as our govt. it is the leaders who lead in the wrong direction not the bible or constitution that is at fault as we have seen how our courts are doing just like the religious elite. Judges define what words really say. Or better said what they want for them to say. Preachers are no different.

Satan comes as an Angel of light to decieve with great words.

How true it is

I don't believe in any demonic demons who our out to decieve people.

In fact those who believe in Christ must also believe in Satan with equal vigor.

Christ is nothing without Satan.

Without Satan there would be no need for Christ.

Satan give Chirst meaning in this religious mythology.

Before you can accept Christ as your savor you must first accept Satan as your demon.

Sad but true.

Without Satan, Christ would have nothing to save people from.

In fact, I've long held that evangelists go about their business all wrong.

Instead of going around asking people to accept Christ as their savior, they must first go around and ask people to accept Satan as their demon.

Otherwise it makes no sense to need a savior.

It's a religion that is truly absurd, IMHO.

You have to believe in Satan before you have a reason to believe in Christ. Otherwise Christ has nothing to save you from.

In order for the religion to even make any sense at all you must put Satan before Christ.

Otherwise the religion makes no sense.

Abra.... you keep dwelling on the fact that Jesus DIED on that Cross for All our sins.....

but Abra , you keep forgetting ....

Jesus is NO LONGER Dead!!!!

JESUS ROSE AGAIN FROM THE DEAD, ABRA!!!!!

AND REIGNS ON HIGH.......WITH ALL GLORY , POWER ,AND MIGHT !!!!

AND ABRA.....

BECAUSE OF WHAT JESUS DID ON THAT CROSS ,

ALLL ALLLLL ALLLLLLLLLLLLL

GLORY
NOW IS GIVEN OF THE FATHER TO JESUS!!!

THERE IS WONDER WORKING POWER IN THAT NAME OF JESUS!!

THAT IS WHY SOME WON'T EVEN SAY THE NAME OF JESUS...CAUSE THERE IS POWER....WONDER WORKING POWER IN THAT WONDERFUL NAME OF JESUS !!!!

THERE IS SALVATION....

HEALING .....

AND VICTORY ......

IN THE NAME OF JESUS!!!!

AMEN!!!!!!!!


AND EVEN THE DEVIL BELIEVES AND TREMBLES....

AT THE NAME OF JESUS!!!

SAY THAT NAME ....JESUS!!!!!


SAY IT AGAIN.....JESUS!!!!!


JESUS!!!!!

THE NAME ABOVE EVERY NAME!!!!

J--E--S--U--S !!!!!

AMEN!!


ps...

Abra.....just ask God IN THE NAME OF JESUS, for God to show you the TRUTH !!!

Just ask .... with a humble heart, Abra.

Just say, "Lord , show me the REAL Truth about WHO YOU ARE LORD , so that I too may see".

And God Will, Abra.
Promise.

sooooooo he's a zombie.
there is no evidence for anything you just said.
It is all just belief without reason or logic attached to it.

Both those acts mentioned above, are the results of RELIGION.



God is NOT about Religion!!!

Man made Religion...NOT God!!!

God is a God of LOVE and RELATIONSHIP!!

And

When God ( NOT Religion ) Comes to Indwell the Hearts of Believers ,

God Gives

BRAND NEW HEARTS!!!

FILLED WITH LOVE...NOT HATE!!

This is a very real question, that many will again have to answer for themselves.

Yes thier seems to be no thought of Humans untill Satan rebelled and then tricked Eve and Adam went along with it then refused responcibility for his actions.

The woman did it. Its her fault!!

Same ole stuff just goes round and round.

It is true one of my 1st times that I got upset and I was like 20 maybe was at our annual soybean festival. Now thats redneck

A preacher had a booth with a blinking red light with a sign.

The sign said with every blink of this light someone is going to Hell.

I stopped and looked at it and he asked me if i was saved. I said Why and he said if you are not then as soon as you die you will be tortured forever in a fiery hell.

I about lost it. I told him you are preaching fear. Scare people and control them you are nothing but a no good control freak.

he did not like this youngster telling him and we went around untill my friends pulled me back. I really wanted to let him see what hell was

and eternal life is not a given it is a gift.

Burning in Hell is a fear tactic if left up to me would be outlawed.

The church down through the ages started picking and choosing what the bible says. Thats why we have so many denominations 1000+.

All say we honor the 10 commandments yet they do not they pick and choose thier also.


If the churches actually believed that Yahweh was perfect then perfection does not make mistakes.

They do not believe this but claiming the OT is old is proving they do not believe themselves.

So what do we got?

Men taking control and good forceful speakers draw a crowd.

It has been like that forever.

Now through the last 1400+ years they have said believe as I do or die.

That was basically it and the ones who fought better and prevailed took over.

Even coming to the end of the civil war when the south lost a few generals under the cloak of religion started the KKK.

It did not last and they went underground still holding thier beliefs untill the 1920's became ripe for them again.

Still trying to hide but they kept an old agenda from Europe that whites are supreme.

Hitler had the same idea's.

Yahshua was a middle eastern. A jew. Not white.

But men as europe became the power then also did whites become the supreme race.

Better than the rest.

The KKK is a chr-stian group. Most see them as renegades but they are the ones who are really keeping the Dark ages alive.

This type history is hush hush.

But it should not be. It should be history to learn from and find out why did thier forefathers have such radical views.

Because in all since of the word those views are alive.

Just hidden under the cloak of secrecy. Only spoken about amongst whites.

It is in every sence of the word part of us still.

Racism has not left but all races I believe are racesist deep down.

All want to believe they are supreme.

This is not what Yahshua taught. That is why what you call the Jews hated Yahshua because he would rather fellowship with the people who the Jews would have nothing to do with.

He is the true non racists.

We need to learn from that.

learn we are all people. We all bleed. We all have feelings. We all want to belong. We all want to be accepted.

But acceptance comes with loyalty.

This is where we get muddled. Loyalty to who?

It is Yahshua.Paul was a tent maker. Why?

Because he did not want anyone to say he did and believed for money.

Money drives everything. In the beginning an allter or place of worship was to be built with uncut stones not a tool was to be used.

This being the creation is more perfect in it's natural way than mans imaginations to create.

Hence Yahshua the fall of the Temple and now where is the Temple. We are. made without hands no tool has touched it.

What do we have though. The Crystal Cathedral churches made by man all over the earth.

Should not be. Now man is proud of himself claiming the work was done through the Holy Spirit who dwells in him.

Is that a true statement? Are we not the Temple and Yahshua said where 2 are gathered together he is in the mist.

Mist of what? The true temple of Yahweh. The testimony of 2 witnesses establishes all things.

Yahshua sent them out with nothing in thier purses the 70. 2 by 2

But man can not handle not having thier country club. Something to admire. Something to brag about.

This leads to tyrany. Now we know what is best. Yahweh tells us.

Now we go against what he says but never mind that we know best.

So Abra we have what we see. Men dressed up trying to be the I AM.

I Am therefore you listen to me and I will save you.

I AM the KKK therefore the White Man rules. Breeds hate.

The other does also except they are more secretive about it.

The other races seeing all this through the years have decided they are also.

When will it stop?

It won't it will only get worse because we are smarter than ever and as we get smarter the more I AM we are.

This leads to many people turning from religion altogether because somewhere along the line they have seen the Hypocracy in all this.

They have seen I AM better than you.

Not the Messiah's teachings.

They have lost thier way and Tradition down through the ages is very very hard to break in any family.

Intill war in that family breaks out.

And history repeats itself and war between chr-stians will break out because we have to many umbrella's under this line of thought.

They do realize they can not all be right.

So now we have a recruiting war going on until the one who has the greater chance to prevail because of numbers rebells against all other denominations.

They hate the catholic church yet they really want to be them. That is where they came from. They feel neglected can see all thier faults and the race is on to over throw the catholic church once the Mega churches unite.

So thier has to be a warring for your soul. They need numbers.

They need more money. This war will be a war of words more than fighting. Overtaking them who they say is Babylon to where they become Babylon through Holy Greed of Power and Mooney.

Govt. can be won by money.We are just starting to see as they catch up with having more and more media campiegns and Radio and Tv stations to change the minds of the people. They learn. They are no dumbies.

But the little guy is not the enemy he believes he is doing rigt.

It is the pretenders on TV now who plan on expanding thier empire untill one day you will see a independent chr-stian or regular party leader run and win the Presidency like several have tried.

practice makes perfect.

So all this in fighting about fairy tales and a diety that is a war mongler frighting it strengthens the ones who are following along.

They believe more everyday because the churches tell them. These are the last days. And I believe it. But in a different way.

What they have forgotten is the Evil One comes from within thier mists and they love him.

The fight is knowledge not debunking. The more we all learn about the believer because all the issues we see coming out and fought over serves a purpose.

It weeds out the week to where a day will come that their leaders will tell them to give more.The Rapture is close. You will not take it with you so give more and more and we will become stronger and stronger and usher in the Rapture faster.


Past has shown us that groups believe they can do this we just have not seen a large group do it.

If groups in the past could get everybodie to sell all they had and go out on a hill and wait for the Rapture then History will repeat itself and now with mass communication this means mass dollars to bring this about.

So we are not that far apart but I am just saying if you want too know what the other one is up to listen and see what he says and do not be combative and he will give you all you need to know for the future. Blessings...Miles