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| Topic: can i ask a serious question? | |
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im sure alot of us christians know about the unpardonable sine... blasphemy against the holy spirit... not blasphemy against god or jesus, it applies to the holy spirit.. can someone explain what that includes... please im struggling! |
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Edited by
darkowl1
on
Mon 11/10/08 03:46 PM
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what do you have to do, to do that?....blasphemy against the spirit i mean.
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Edited by
Seamonster
on
Mon 11/10/08 03:46 PM
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im sure alot of us christians know about the unpardonable sine... blasphemy against the holy spirit... not blasphemy against god or jesus, it applies to the holy spirit.. can someone explain what that includes... please im struggling! I'm not a christian, but from What I understand it's not something you can do bt accident. Or even something you can do with just words. It is something you realy have to work towards and want to do. At least that's my understanding of it. |
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It is when you reject the Holy Spirit so many times that you lose your salvation. Reject Him enough times and He will stop trying to prompt you and you turn away from Christianity forever.
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Edited by
ljcc1964
on
Mon 11/10/08 03:53 PM
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The Catholic Church specifies six sins as going against the Holy Spirit:
Despair i.e. to not believe in Hope Presumption i.e. to believe one does not need or already has grace Impenitence i.e. not feeling regret about one's sin or sins Obstinacy i.e. unwillingness to seek God Resisting the known truth Envy of another's spiritual welfare Basically it's the same in all Christian faiths. |
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Edited by
Ruth34611
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Mon 11/10/08 03:55 PM
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Yes, those are the sins against the Holy Spirit. But, he's talking about the unpardonable sin mentioned in the Bible which is separate from the ones you mentioned.
Basically, it's unpardonable because you decide to ultimately reject the Holy Spirit and in turn Jesus Christ. It's a decision you make to reject Him and in turn He ultimately stops trying to "call you back". You won't know you committed it until you die. |
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It is when you reject the Holy Spirit so many times that you lose your salvation. Reject Him enough times and He will stop trying to prompt you and you turn away from Christianity forever. yeah thats what i heard along those lines... and i also heard that you would know before you die... because once you are not filled with the holy spirit anymore you will not even care and not seek him anymore... people that think the commited that sin and are still wanting to go to god really bad and want to get with him obviously havent committed that sin at least thats what i was told... like some people go to pastors saying "i think i committed the unpardonable sin!" the pastor says your still seeking the holy spirit so you havent committed it!...lol |
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It is when you reject the Holy Spirit so many times that you lose your salvation. Reject Him enough times and He will stop trying to prompt you and you turn away from Christianity forever. yeah thats what i heard along those lines... and i also heard that you would know before you die... because once you are not filled with the holy spirit anymore you will not even care and not seek him anymore... people that think the commited that sin and are still wanting to go to god really bad and want to get with him obviously havent committed that sin at least thats what i was told... like some people go to pastors saying "i think i committed the unpardonable sin!" the pastor says your still seeking the holy spirit so you havent committed it!...lol Yes, exactly. So, you have nothing to worry about. 
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Edited by
ljcc1964
on
Mon 11/10/08 06:46 PM
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Yes, those are the sins against the Holy Spirit. But, he's talking about the unpardonable sin mentioned in the Bible which is separate from the ones you mentioned. Basically, it's unpardonable because you decide to ultimately reject the Holy Spirit and in turn Jesus Christ. It's a decision you make to reject Him and in turn He ultimately stops trying to "call you back". You won't know you committed it until you die. I don't agree. Rejecting the Holy Spirit is something you do very consciously. Those who have done it....know they've done it...because they did it intentionally. What kind of God would allow the possibility of someone going to hell by doing something they had no idea would send them to hell? No. We're educated. And we either accept or reject....with all that free will we were given. I use to believe that God was a gentleman...in the sense that He would never force himself on someone and, that after repeated rejection, He would give up. But I have come across a few pieces of scripture in the last few months that allude to the possibility of God's plan being that not one be lost. I'm not sure if that really means that maybe, ultimately, God will not let anyone be lost forever. Will be interesting to find out. I do know that the God that I know does not want any to be lost and His love for us will not allow Him to ever ever EVER give up on even one of us...even those who reject Him. So....I don't believe He ever will. Now when the end comes (and only He knows when that will be)those who DO go to hell (if any)...won't be there because God gave up on them. What the gospels of Mark and Matthew described as the unpardonable sin was the kind of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.....when the Pharisees saw the miracles Jesus performed and publicly credited the most ultimately evil being in the universe with these precious, Godly miracles. In other words, they called the precious and holy Spirit of God, the unclean spirit of Satan. In effect, they charged Jesus Christ with sorcery; one who is in league with Satan. The 6 unpardonable sins I described earlier all were a part of what the Pharisees were guilty of doing and collectively was blasphemous to the Holy Spirit of God. I don't know all the details. But I believe that the more you sin....the more you are "tuned out" to what is right and what is wrong....to the point that, ultimately, you will not think you are sinning. Ok I gotta go now before I keep going. Good thread!! |
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Well, since I don't believe in Hell it is hard for me to argue either way. As a Christian I was taught that the unpardonable sin was the rejection of the Holy Spirit to the point that He stops pulling at your heart to come back. When I said you won't know until you die.......I meant you wouldn't know that the Holy Spirit wouldn't try again until it was too late. It is definitely a conscious decision, however, to reject Him in the first place.
As for suicide. I doubt that is it simply because of the issue of mental illness and the inability to make rational decisions when severely depressed. JMO. |
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Well, since I don't believe in Hell it is hard for me to argue either way. As a Christian I was taught that the unpardonable sin was the rejection of the Holy Spirit to the point that He stops pulling at your heart to come back. When I said you won't know until you die.......I meant you wouldn't know that the Holy Spirit wouldn't try again until it was too late. It is definitely a conscious decision, however, to reject Him in the first place. As for suicide. I doubt that is it simply because of the issue of mental illness and the inability to make rational decisions when severely depressed. JMO. Sorry....I messed you all up by changing my post.... I must say that whatever any of us believe, I choose to believe that I don't know everything. All I can do is ask for understanding and know that I will get it....ultimately. |
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I am not a Christian either...but, rather a devote Buddhist/Taoist of sorts, even though my upbringing was that of strict Catholicism by my parents.
What human is to profess what is the ultimate "sin"? It all depends upon the sin and when it is being committed and against whom, right? It's all about pain and suffering...for the victim or the offender. This can easily be interchanged on a daily basis, based upon our "sins". Example: For instance, a Zen master may ask a student to meditate on an unanswerable riddle called a "koan". A well-known koan is "You know the sound of two hands clapping, but what is the sound made by one hand when it's clapping?" The purpose of a koan is to cultivate a "great doubt" in the student. From the position of a great doubt, the Zen student is then in a state of mind to look at reality from a new perspective, without interference from the ego. In my current perspective, and teachings, that I have chosen to adopt as my own...it's all perspective: Mine, His, Theirs. When I choose to balance the scales of equality of these perspectives, I find balance and peace. As Buddha determined we suffer because we have a grasping desire and we are unable to accept change. He concluded that we could end our suffering by developing the correct understanding of life. Cultivating the correct understanding to relieve suffering is the main focus. I personally found that Christianity waddled far against the grain of cultivating understanding, and it's pendulum swung rather far and wide to the side judgment. We are human...we all sin. For me, the answer is not in judgment, but rather understanding. |
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well - i googled blasphemy and "holy spirit"
and got this: http://www.gotquestions.org/blasphemy-Holy-Spirit.html |
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Well, I was answering the OP's original question understanding where he was coming from. I answered based on the tenets of Christianity and what the Bible says because that is what he was asking about. There is a specific reference to an "unpardonable sin" in the Bible and this, of course, worries some Christians who may be afraid of committing it. I was putting him mind at ease that, according to his religion, he had not committed it.
As for sin in general I agree with most of what you (breathless1) posted. |
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well - i googled blasphemy and "holy spirit" and got this: http://www.gotquestions.org/blasphemy-Holy-Spirit.html That's interesting. I had never heard that idea before, but really it makes more sense than anything else. |
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Yes, those are the sins against the Holy Spirit. But, he's talking about the unpardonable sin mentioned in the Bible which is separate from the ones you mentioned. Basically, it's unpardonable because you decide to ultimately reject the Holy Spirit and in turn Jesus Christ. It's a decision you make to reject Him and in turn He ultimately stops trying to "call you back". You won't know you committed it until you die. I don't agree. Rejecting the Holy Spirit is something you do very consciously. Those who have done it....know they've done it...because they did it intentionally. What kind of God would allow the possibility of someone going to hell by doing something they had no idea would send them to hell? No. We're educated. And we either accept or reject....with all that free will we were given. I use to believe that God was a gentleman...in the sense that He would never force himself on someone and, that after repeated rejection, He would give up. But I have come across a few pieces of scripture in the last few months that allude to the possibility of God's plan being that not one be lost. I'm not sure if that really means that maybe, ultimately, God will not let anyone be lost forever. Will be interesting to find out. I do know that the God that I know does not want any to be lost and His love for us will not allow Him to ever ever EVER give up on even one of us...even those who reject Him. So....I don't believe He ever will. Now when the end comes (and only He knows when that will be)those who DO go to hell (if any)...won't be there because God gave up on them. What the gospels of Mark and Matthew described as the unpardonable sin was the kind of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.....when the Pharisees saw the miracles Jesus performed and publicly credited the most ultimately evil being in the universe with these precious, Godly miracles. In other words, they called the precious and holy Spirit of God, the unclean spirit of Satan. In effect, they charged Jesus Christ with sorcery; one who is in league with Satan. The 6 unpardonable sins I described earlier all were a part of what the Pharisees were guilty of doing and collectively was blasphemous to the Holy Spirit of God. I don't know all the details. But I believe that the more you sin....the more you are "tuned out" to what is right and what is wrong....to the point that, ultimately, you will not think you are sinning. Ok I gotta go now before I keep going. Good thread!! see the thing with that sin is, its unpardonable because he speaks to you over and over again and you ignore him i believe... so he leaves and with him not in you the desire to love him goese away so your just like any other non-believer i believe you can turn your back on him do your own thing... then after a year or two realize you made a mistake and come back to him, but i also believe comming back to him would be tuffer |
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Well, since I don't believe in Hell it is hard for me to argue either way. As a Christian I was taught that the unpardonable sin was the rejection of the Holy Spirit to the point that He stops pulling at your heart to come back. When I said you won't know until you die.......I meant you wouldn't know that the Holy Spirit wouldn't try again until it was too late. It is definitely a conscious decision, however, to reject Him in the first place. As for suicide. I doubt that is it simply because of the issue of mental illness and the inability to make rational decisions when severely depressed. JMO. in the bible hell is on earth |
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Well, since I don't believe in Hell it is hard for me to argue either way. As a Christian I was taught that the unpardonable sin was the rejection of the Holy Spirit to the point that He stops pulling at your heart to come back. When I said you won't know until you die.......I meant you wouldn't know that the Holy Spirit wouldn't try again until it was too late. It is definitely a conscious decision, however, to reject Him in the first place. As for suicide. I doubt that is it simply because of the issue of mental illness and the inability to make rational decisions when severely depressed. JMO. Sorry....I messed you all up by changing my post.... I must say that whatever any of us believe, I choose to believe that I don't know everything. All I can do is ask for understanding and know that I will get it....ultimately. AMEN SISTER! |
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I am not a Christian either...but, rather a devote Buddhist/Taoist of sorts, even though my upbringing was that of strict Catholicism by my parents. What human is to profess what is the ultimate "sin"? It all depends upon the sin and when it is being committed and against whom, right? It's all about pain and suffering...for the victim or the offender. This can easily be interchanged on a daily basis, based upon our "sins". Example: For instance, a Zen master may ask a student to meditate on an unanswerable riddle called a "koan". A well-known koan is "You know the sound of two hands clapping, but what is the sound made by one hand when it's clapping?" The purpose of a koan is to cultivate a "great doubt" in the student. From the position of a great doubt, the Zen student is then in a state of mind to look at reality from a new perspective, without interference from the ego. In my current perspective, and teachings, that I have chosen to adopt as my own...it's all perspective: Mine, His, Theirs. When I choose to balance the scales of equality of these perspectives, I find balance and peace. As Buddha determined we suffer because we have a grasping desire and we are unable to accept change. He concluded that we could end our suffering by developing the correct understanding of life. Cultivating the correct understanding to relieve suffering is the main focus. I personally found that Christianity waddled far against the grain of cultivating understanding, and it's pendulum swung rather far and wide to the side judgment. We are human...we all sin. For me, the answer is not in judgment, but rather understanding. well of coarse you arent a christian so you dont believe the same... we didnt say what sin is impardonable read the bible god did... and i dont mean this in a threatening way it just sounds like it because its typed |
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well - i googled blasphemy and "holy spirit" and got this: http://www.gotquestions.org/blasphemy-Holy-Spirit.html well thanks for that link, i agree, but one thing i dont agree on is that you cant do it now a dyas, because the holy spirit is their, so you can attribute evilness to his name... its not blasphemy against jesus its against the holy spirit |
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