So many wonderfully smart people here, but do you know the story of JOB? This one story alone tells you enough to know where we stand as humans, how and why GOD is all powerful, why satan desires to hate GOD and his creation, powers and goodness, and why our understanding of the simplest things are muddled at best. Don't be so arrogant as to not go and read it?


"There was an extremely pious man named Job. He was very prosperous and had seven sons, and three daughters. Constantly fearing that his sons may have sinned and "cursed God in their hearts" he habitually offered burnt offerings as a pardon for their sins.

The angels of heaven (literally, the Hebrew word translated as "Angels" means "the Sons of God") and Satan (literally, the Hebrew word means "the accuser" or "the adversary") present themselves to God. God asks Satan his opinion on Job, apparently a truly pious man. Satan answers that Job is only pious because he is prosperous. In order to test if Job would still be pious if he was stricken with poverty, God gives Satan permission to destroy Job's possessions and family.

All of Job's possessions are destroyed and all of his family are killed. Job does not curse God after this but instead shaves his head, tears his clothes and says "Naked I came out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return : the Lord has given, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord" (Simplified).

As Job endures these calamities without reproaching Divine Providence, Satan solicits permission to afflict his person as well, and God says, "Behold he is in your hand, but don’t touch his life." Satan, therefore, smites him with dreadful boils, and Job, seated in ashes, scrapes his skin with broken pottery. His wife prompts him to "curse God, and die" but Job answers, "Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?" In all of this, Job doesn't sin by cursing God.

In the meantime, only three of Job's friends come to visit him in his misfortune — Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite. A fourth, Elihu the Buzite, first begins talking in chapter 32 and bears a distinguished part in the dialogue; his arrival is not noted. The friends spend 7 days sitting on the ground with Job, without saying anything to him because they see that he is suffering and in much pain. Job at last breaks his silence and "curses the day he was born".


...now, go read the rest of the story!

Such a wonderful story. I am always blown away by Job. Here is a man who goes through more than we could imagine, and it seems like this day and age, we want to curse our Father over such amazingly petty things like high gas prices or a flat tire on the side of the road. The story of Job always inspires me, and makes me reflect on my own past events, and reminds me that God always works for the bettering of us. "And we know that in all things, God works for the good of those who love Him, those who have been called according to His purpose." -Romans 8:28.

Thanks again for the story!

Jim

Ive read it already.I was underwhelmed in all honesty. I didnt understand this part at all.

Job 1

1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

God kills (or allows Satan to kill) Job's children, but Job doesn't "foolishly" blame God. Since God was responsible, why would it be foolish to blame God? I would hold him directly responsible. What the hell?

oh,..but you tell it so good,..keep going,..

Of all the stories in the Bible Job is without a doubt the one that I have read the most.

It is an utterly stupid story that doesnt do any of the things that you claim.

First off, it has Satan asking God for permission to screw over Job!

So what have we here? A supposedly evil demon who is apparently so respectful of God that he actually asks permission before he does things that God might disapprove of?

This concept right here flies in the face of Satan being an evil demon who wrecks havoc with innocent people against God's wishes!

Then God actually gives his permission?

This is like God making a bet with the devil. God is gambling with Satan using Job and his entire family as pawns on the crap table!

Plus it suggests that this supposedly all-knowing God doesn't know what the outcome would be?

This is the Bible slaping itself in the face. Or shooting itself in the foot if you prefer.

Moreover, God tells Satan not to kill Job, but clearly he doesn't care if Satan kills the rest of Job's family?



What's up with that? Don't these other humans count? This whole thing flies in the face of anything the could even remotely be deemed ethical or reasonable.

Job is one of the silliest stories in the Bible IMHO. I would avoid it like the plauge if I were going to try to sell the religion to anyone.

It spits in the very face of the whole biblical story and makes it appear that Satan is nothing more than God's hit man, or gambling partner.

Sorry, I'm not the slightest bit impressed at all.

On the contrary, given this story I would suggest that you might want to give Greek Mythology a try. Some of its stories make more sense than the story of Job.

Awwww my sweet lil krimsa......faith sweet lady....thats all it was with Job.....Love and Faith in God Almighty....And you would not understand it because you neither have faith nor an unconditional love for God.


9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."

But the question now is read on....and see how Jacob handled....

To read is the gift....to understand is divine.

That's such an empty cliché Feral.

Christians always claim to have divine insight into the Bible, but two things are blatently obvious.

1. They can never explain them to reasonable people in a way that makes sense.

2. Christians, (not even clergy) agree on what the book says.

This is especially true if we include Catholicism in the mix. But even if we stick with just the rebellious protestants they have so many demoninations that they can't seem to agree on anything in detail.

So if understanding is divine, then clearly no one in the Christian world is divine, because if there is one thing that is crystal clear it's that they don't understand anything.

You just post popular worn-out meaningless clichés that truly don't stand the test of time.

Those clichés are the tools of brainwashing. People here them over, and over, and over again and so they associate them with truth.

But the evidence is that there is no truth in them. And that evidence lies in the incoherence of the biblical-based religions as a whole and with Christianity in particular.

So your old worn-out clichés are meaningless without a reasonable explantion backing them up.

Try address the concepts I brought up for once.

1. Satan comes to God and basically says "I bet I can turn this guy against you if you let me have my way with him.

2. God takes Satan up on the bet?

WTF?

What does God have to prove to Satan?

Why is God taking Satan up on a bet?

Why doesn't God just tell Satan to go to hell where he belongs?

Why doesn't God already know what's in Job's heart?

This whole story implies that God doesn't even know what's in Job's heart!

It's a story that flies in the face of everything that the Biblical God is supposed to stand for!

It's a slap in the face to the very premises that the whole biblical picture of God rests.

It has God betting with a lowly demon, at the expense of Job and his entire family.

Anyone care to take a stab at the actual issues instead of just passing it off with empty clichés that God is great and God is good because the Bible tells us so?

Here we have a man who worships God in the highest, yet he can't even trust God to treat him right!

I don't see how this story is anything but derogatory toward the idea of a just and righteous God.

Rhetorical nonsense. To be properly sceptical of the utterly fantastic is a greater one.

-Kerry O.

I've read two different versions.

There's one in the bible written by ... ummm ... I dunno actually. I found that one mildly interesting. I only read it once.

And then there's the one written by Robert Heinlein, which I found immensely entertaining and which I've read 5 times.

As a parable I fully understand what it's supposed to be about.

It's supposed to assure people that having unwaivering faith in God is worthwhile in the end.

A person can just accept that ideal and claim 'divine understanding'.

But I still say that the biblical version sucks if even remotely analyzed with reason.

I haven't read Robert Heinlein's version, but if it differs from the Bible then what who's word is it?

Is there a free online version of Robert Heinlein's view? It's a fairly short story, I might be interesting in taking a peek at his interpretation.

Owl probably critique his interpretation harshly though if it differs from what the actual scriptures say. After all, what good is a bible if we need to re-write the stories to fit our own whims?

Ummmm…….

Sorry. I was actually being a little sarcastic there. Heinlein’s version is actually a full length SciFi/Fantasy novel named “Job: A Comedy of Errors”. It’s basic premise is similar to that of the biblical story of Job: a very devout Christian man suffers though what can only be described as an absurdly ridiculous string of hardships, without losing his faith in his god and is rewarded in the end with exactly what god promised him. (Aye, there’s the rub! ) The most interesting thing to me is how Heinlein presents “the nature of God”. (Not too far off from what you’ve deduced Abra. )
Although the basic premise of the book is satirical, Heinlein nevertheless manages to build a reasonably logical cosmology/theology that ends up being as good a description of “the nature of god” as any other I’ve ever heard, while still maintaining a fairly close alignment with mainstream Christian beliefs.

Aside from all that, it’s an extremely entertaining read.

I thought you were being serious.

Although, now you've really got my interest. It sounds like a fun novel to read.

Personally, I think he deserved a Hugo for that one. But he's got, I think, five other's, so he's not been slighted in that area.

As a matter of fact, I'll be reading it again myself shortly for the 5th or 6th time. (Every few years I go through my Heinlein collection from front to back and re-read everything.)

Feral, Im sorry but there is no way around this for me. If god was responsible for allowing Satan to kill Job's family, there is no way I would just get over that and have faith. I feel the same way about what he did in Sodom and the rest of the holy atrocities. You dont need to go around testing people in such a manner. Its sick and sadistic. God is a sociopath.

empty to you sweet James....But truth be to me.

You claim we feel we have divine insight.....We have faith which accomplishes all in our lives. Ihave shown you scripture after scripture that if your eyes and ears are closed to him well true understanding will also be. If I explain and it's not up to your standards....oh well

Take denominations out of it. Look at just Matthew and learn how to live as Christ intended. I don't agree that people don't agree on what it says. But I will give you that two people can read the same thing and one may have more details of what their reading..But as far as what it says....It says what it means and means what it says.

I won't get into petty arguments with you James......The Bible has obviously stood the test of time.


Look closely and who is and isn't being brainwahsed.

space cadet

I understand the meaning of the story of Job but I can see why many people see it differently.

I believe that people create their own reality and are responsible for their own lives. If the story had any truth to it at all Job was totally responsible for all that happened to him, not Satan or God, but of course that would ruin the purpose of the story. The writers had to put both Satan and God into the picture as that is what they believed.

But it is a story about faith and attitude.

Its about keeping faith and love in your heart even when life does not go your way. Many people spend their life complaining about everything and blaming others or their "God" for their hardships instead of looking at them with gratitude for the lessons they provided.

So his entire family was killed, he lost everything. Did he become bitter and angry and hence continue to screw up the rest of his life? No he picked himself up and kept going.

What would you have him do? Curse God? Become a horrible disgusting angry nasty person with a bad attitude for the rest of his life? Whine and cry like a baby and feel sorry for himself forever? If he had done that he would have continued to create disaster in his life.

It is all about trial and tribulation that make us or break us. Will you be broken or will you learn to pick yourself up and find something to be grateful for?

It is not about some God and Satan making a bet and playing with some poor mortal's life for the sadistic fun of it. That never happened. That is just the way they told the story.

jb

kinda shows the thought

circumstances are what you make them

if ya want to have a neg attitude you will

if not you wont

not rocket science

could be phsyc tho lol