They didn't exactly try to stop what was happening in the first place, and BTW if they haven't done anything in two years to help us, what makes you think they will do something in two more years?

What have the dems TRIED to do?

How is he so right?

I ask you this, how is his outtake on healthcare going to help us? All it will do is make us more dependent on this government to function... His healthcare plan will cost us almost as much is the iraq war (well, about 6 to 7 billion a month), and where will he get that money? I dont think you see the whole picture when you look at iraq... Yes, he wants to leave, but NOBODY is going HOME. Under the Obama rule, we will have MORE involvment under our foreign policy. Sudan, Pakistan reinforce Afganistan, more help to African countries, this starting to sound familiar to you?

Healthcare will cause a much greater increase in inflation. This is where he blinds people. Inflation is a tax my friends. Only this tax is non discriminatory. Meaning: if will double for you and me under Obama's plans, maybe even triple. We WILL all pay for this healthcare plan somehow. Over the years people will rely on it more and more. Why is that a good thing? Why is it a good thing for the corrupt government to tell you how to raise your children? What you should read? How you should spend your money? Why is it a good thing to have them control you?

People think it all falls under socialism. But they are mistaken. Socialism differs from communism only by the fact that the people control what happens. It's still a bad idea, but look at this....when was the last time we controlled what the government did?

Get me? A government that owns all the resources and isn't controlled by the people, is communist pretty much by definition. BE CAREFUL! Don't be hypnotized by promises of handouts...

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

-Thomas Jefferson

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

-Benjamin Franklin



No one can argue that Ron Paul is a VERY intelligent individual. He has predicted pretty much ever outcome for every policy that i know of. He spent a big portion of his life as a medical doctor and was quite respected. He also won numerous awards for his ecenomic knowledge from economic colleges worldwide.

He strongly dislikes both candidates and hates the two party system. He even came out and mentioned that McCain had a better healthcare policy than Obama. That says a lot as Dr. Paul REFUSES to endorse McCain...

first of all, where did you even find this?

The Future of Freedom Foundation.

Mission
The mission of The Future of Freedom Foundation is to advance freedom by providing an uncompromising moral and economic case for individual liberty, free markets, private property, and limited government.

Declaration of Principles
The United States was founded on the principles of individual freedom, free markets, private property, and limited government. As the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution reflect, individuals have the natural and God-given right to live their lives any way they choose, so long as their conduct is peaceful. It is the duty of government to protect, not destroy, these inherent and inalienable rights.

Thus, for well over a century, the American people said "No" to such anti-free-market government policies as income taxation, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, immigration controls, economic regulations, drug laws, gun control, public schooling, and foreign wars. Despite the tragic exception of slavery, the result was the most prosperous, healthy, literate, and compassionate society in history. Unfortunately, in the 20th century, our country has moved in an opposite direction. Operating through the IRS, DEA, ATF, INS, FDA, FTC , and a multitude of other bureaucracies, our government has waged immoral and destructive wars on our freedom, our property, and our well-being.

It has seduced us into believing that we cannot live without this political paternalism. It has weakened our moral fiber and our sense of self-reliance, self-esteem, voluntary charity, and community. It has damaged our families. It has hurt the poorest people in society. It has turned foreigners into enemies. It has trampled on our Constitution. It has undermined our commitment to the moral foundations of freedom and to the benefits of free markets.

The time has come for us to reevaluate our relationship to our government — to repeal, not reform, these immoral and destructive government programs — to recapture our commitment to the principles of free markets, private property, voluntary charity, and limited government that made our nation great — and to believe in ourselves again. It is time for us once again to lead the world to the highest reaches of freedom in history. It is to this end that The Future of Freedom Foundation is dedicated.

That's where I found this.

How does this quote from the constitution back up what the author writes in the last line of this paragraph?

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

No state shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection laws: and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any state on imports or exports, shall be for the use of the treasury of the United States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of the Congress.

No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.

In relation to Healthcare, this provision would protect the Dr./Patient relationship, giving the power to those 2 individuals. Since the intervention of Government into the market, you have the FDA/FTC colluding to make it next to impossible to seek out healthcare that doesn't involve pharma goop or cutting out a part of the anatomy.

Under the section titled "free market care" the sections you've dubbed uncited are in fact easily discovered, simply by reading and researching, they are also widely accepted as fact. Are you saying that this Dr. just made all that up? Shoot, even that Kevin Trudeau guy who sells the Natural Cures books talks about this stuff, there's a reason he hasn't been sued out of his pants, the last thing the Healthcare cartel would want to do is draw attention to their federally funded scam.

Down further you say that the only cite is Cato, but thats just incorrect, there's this one before the Cato remarks:A report submitted at the AMA convention in 1847 was unusually candid:
The very large number of physicians in the United States has frequently been the subject of remark.... No wonder that the merest pittance in the way of remuneration is scantily doled out even to the most industrious in our ranks.
The AMA decided to increase their members’ income by outlawing their competition. This is a standard way to raise prices, for it reduces the supply of a commodity. They would lobby the government for licensing laws. The laws would limit the number of doctors.

This was taken from the minutes of the AMA meeting, recorded in 1847.
Page 55,Which is the Report of the Committee on the Organization of the National Medical Associa
tion.


The medical-licensing laws violated Article I, Section 10 of the Constitution.
"how so?"

As I stated earlier:In relation to Healthcare, this provision would protect the Dr./Patient relationship, giving the power to those 2 individuals. By lobbying the government to create AMA approved licensing, which the AMA's own admission was to decrease the amount of Dr.'s and the different types, the medical licensing violated that provision of the Constitution.

This was the end of the right to work (how so?), the end of the right to choose (how so?), and the end of an impartial attitude by the government.

Is it not obvious? This forced natural healers out of business, only in recent history has the Psychologists,Chiropractors and other not so main stream health care providers being given a opportunity to ply their trades again.

the end of the right to choose (how so?), Until only recently... didn't I just type this? see above, that includes homeopathic remedies, which you've seem fit to marginilize by calling Homeoquacks, I'd like to see your evidence on that.

Interestingly, the medical monopoly was imposed about the same time as the FDA (1906) and the IRS and Federal Reserve System (1913). <b><i>irrelevant</i></b> Thats a matter of historical relevance, coincidence is rare and the FDA became just one more inept form of a control mechanism.

Unnamed book author no.#1
Why We Spend Too Much on Health Care...and What We Can Do About It: Joseph L. Bast ( solved with a simple google search.)


Jeez, we could go on and on, I've done this much, you come with the rest of the homework.

By the way, would you be telling the people who have had their hearts ruined by Vioxx that they were taking a proven cure? How about the people who have cured their cancer by taking Vitamin C treatments, was that magic water?

Hey war you talkin to me? Cuz i'm just quoting what i heard him say on CNN. The woman questioning him was trying to get him to say something good about Obama and McCain. He said he didn't believe in either, but McCain had a better healthcare plan, and Obama had a better plan for (specifically) Iraq. He also mentioned the only reason he could come up with to vote for McCain, is that maybe a republican president may offset the democratic congress. Maybe they would spend more time arguing that ruining us... who knows... But he also strongly encouraged we vote third party...

No, Sir. Talking at someone who criticized an earlier post.

I actually was asking alot of the same questions that you were!

K, i really didn't think so, but i wanted to make sure...

Too bad someone didn't go out with a microphone and camera to interview some of the misguided John McCain/Sarah Palin supporters.

They believe the lies that we will be made more vulnerable to a terrorist attack if Obama gets in, that Obama is a Muslim, etc...

So if there's a disconnect between Obama supporters and their political understanding, then there is a much larger disconnect with McCain voters.

Not if you watch Faux News. If you watch this channel and BELIEVE IT you would think that the "liberal left" is some kind of destruction force designed by any means they deem necessary to bring down this great country of ours and therefore there is nothing that should be believed from the liberal media or the liberal people of this country.

I have been watching much too much of it lately, just to be sure that I had not been underestimating their message or over stating their message.

If they are standing on the fact they are suppose to be fair and balanced they are lying to the world.

I have guessed they are supposedly portraying the right wing or conservative base in this country but they are so skewed in the views they are actually doing the right and conservatives a disfavor.

Howard Stern is not a reliable source for much as far as I have seen. I have been disgusted on most of the shows of his I have watched so I would not put much value in his opinion of this subject anyway.

Howard Stern is an entertainment show only slightly more outrageous than Rush and O'Reilly. I listen to them all on occasion, but it's all entertainment.

Guess a H. Stern thread is a pretty good thread to put this in.

DO NOT Watch this video if you
don't like your ears insulted w/foul language, however, the man is fighting mad (and right on many points)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPP2F30Wy2o


The Stern findings from his event, are scary for sure.....hate it.

(whispering, so War, do you file taxes?? It would be great if the people all rebelled!!) BB

What's scary on that video is that people are actually watching and believing that prejudiced crap.

Stern's findings are scary? I find it terribly disturbing the people that are blinding following and listening to McCain and Palin without even questioning them about what they are saying.

since we are there(iraq) I am all for us finishing what we started and get out of there. We have enough BS to worry about here in America, like kids who are hungry because daddy got laid off, People shooting each other over drugs, money, and gangs. Women being beat, citizens and veterans going with out medical coverage. We need to worry about AMERICA, not every one else.

At the end of the day, the IRS has alot of people with alot of fire arms, I pick my fights and until it otherwise becomes a necessity, that fight will be purely intellectual in nature!

But it is interesting that there are IRS agents themselves who have figured this out and no longer pay either.

Go watch that movie I posted a link to, Freedom TO Fascism!