- My childhood beliefs...
I was originally Catholic, almost from birth, but one day I just locked horns with the system, when I said I thought that only Jesus ever should have the kind of authority given to the Pope. I was at that time only ten years old, and had been going to a Catholic school. After I suffered abuse at their hands, I decided they were hypocrites. Not all Catholics, just the ones who persecuted me. And why did they persecute me? Because I did not agree with one tiny part of their dogma. This led to me going to many different types of schools and even more different types of churches trying to find out where I really belonged, religiously.
- A time of confusion...
Lutheran churches, less strict Catholic churches, Jewish synogogues, you name it! On top of that, my grandmother was a Methodist Reverend, and my uncle was a Mormon Priest. Even so, I could not seem to fit in with any of these religions. All of them, to me, just seemed to have only one tiny part of something bigger that I was looking for.
- Finding the truth...
When I turned thirteen, I even tried going a bit far out with my beliefs. I read a book about the Druids, and found one thing that agreed with my own beliefs: reincarnation. Yes, I believe very much in reincarnation, even to this very day. I didn't get that from any one church nor from any book. It was something I accepted as a fact from the hour of my birth on. I had dreams and waking visions of past lives before I ever even went to school. No one at home ever talked about any kind of reincarnation, so I didn't get it from them. It was a part of who I am, and to me it was fact.
Pehaps the fact I lived before contributed to my being at college level when I was only in second grade. At any rate, because of this and a love of nature, I tried Druidry from the age of thirteen to sixteen. That was an experimental time for me, religiously, since unknowingly I also followed a subsconscious set of beliefs I would later learn are a part of Wicca, not Druidry at all. Probably from a past life. Who knows? Then, I was sixteen.
- Another conflict...
At this point in my life, my mother was going to a Baptist church and she talked me into becoming a part of it. I assisted the minister with odd jobs from raising the flag outside the church to helping organize boxes full of paperwork. We were good friends, and I started to get a crush on his daughter. But it all blew up in my face when we went on a bus trip to a church dinner. I had the task of helping some russian children adjust to life here in America, and cruelly the minister's daughter made a comment that I was a commielover as she called it. Which I certainly was not! So, I called her an ugly cow (literally) and further put my foot in my mouth when the bus driver just about killed us in a near-crash. I yelled out the bad word: "Jesus!" and he said: "Never take the Lord's name in vain." After that, the minister acted like I was possessed by the Devil, and so the next time my mother tried to take to back to that church, I jumped out of the car and walked home. I realized mainstream Christianity was not for me, in that hour. I was too "normal" for it.
I couldn't agree with them that Wiccans were all just "Devil Worshippers" since I had some very Wiccan beliefs myself. And so, it never worked!
- Losing my faith, and finding new faith...
So, until I was in my twenties, I went back to my Druid/Wiccan beliefs, which I practiced up at the local park near my house. I really felt peace in my beliefs, but then I married a woman who was an Atheist and I spent a lot of years just trying to get her to not persecute me for my beliefs. I do not care if someone believes in anything ot not. But just don't persecute me if my beliefs do not agree 100% with yours or your lack thereof! That and other reasons caused my marriage to end, and for a lot of years afterwards I myself abandoned all religion and became an Atheist. Until one day my old dreams, visions, and past-life memories returned, like when I was a child. I began to do active research about them, and I discovered not only that I had lived before, but I found out who I had been. A subject I will not speak of here. I only share that with those closest to me. At any rate, I started researching religion and found a Christian set of beliefs wherein Jesus supposedly spoke of reincarnation, and other things that I agreed with. This was a kind of Gnosticism, I was to learn, and I combined it with my earlier ways, in effect creating a hybrid belief system that was part Gnostic Christian, part Druid/Wiccan, and part many other things besides. This is what I have believed in ever since, and I have found it brings me peace, religiously. Why, you may ask?
- Why we often see religion as a burden...
Because, no matter how much we may lead ourselves to believe otherwise, human beings have an easier time fitting religions to suit their needs than they do fitting into the rules made by an already established religion. We see God/Goddess through our own eyes, and every set of eyes sees Him/Her differently. But God is universal. Male/Female as well as being Good/Evil. If we are God's creation and made in God's image, then God is as much like us as we are like Him/Her. The sin of most of the mainstream religions is denying the human side of the divine, and the divine side of being human. I think Jesus understood what I have only just now begun to understand, and if listen to his simple message of love, and Bible passages such as God saying: "All Good and all Evil, come from me." and "Let *us* make man in *our* image: male and female." then the truth becomes known to us, that God isn't one thing. God is many things, and some say everything. And, it reveals much about us...
- The human and the divine...
We are taught to belive our spirits have specific boundries. But since God's spirit is boundless... so is every human spirit, by virtue of our maker.
We are infinite beings, who can live forever. All of us must, for a time, live in flesh. Sometimes, we have to live many lifetimes to perfect what is within us, until we can join our God or gods in what lies beyond. Do I believe in Hell and do I accept the exitence of the Devil? Yes, in a way.
I believe an underworld exists where souls go to rest for a time. That time varies from soul to soul. Heaven is hard to reach, and not for just everyone. And Hell is when we suffer during our time in the underworld. The Devil is how humans view two different beings: God, and the angel or goddess who presides over the underworld. Recall the words in the Old Testament, spoken by God, not Satan: "All Good, and all Evil come from me."
The Gnostics divide God in two parts: the dark Demiurge who created the world, and the bright and unknowable spirit that is all around us. In Star Wars terms, the Force. Continuing in Star Wars terms: God is the Light Side and the Dark. But neither is either good or evil of itself. We create those terms for it, just to fathom it. So, who presides over Hell/The Underworld? Lucifer, or Satan. An archangel known by other names to the ancients, but in every myth a god or goddess of death and the punishment of the wicked. Here are some of those names: Hel (Norse), Ereshkigal (Babylonian), and Persephone (Greek). Contrary to most conventional belief, it is she who is the true ruler of the domain of the dead, not her male consort, who is called: Loki (Norse), Nergal (Babylonian), or Hades (Greek). Now if God is both male and female, then so are the angels and gods. Becuase of that, then every god is really just the male side of the corresponding goddess they are associated with. Thusly, Lucifer is both Hades and Persephone. Just as God is both God and Goddess. In religious experiences I've had, all of the beings that lie beyond this reality were either androgynes or hermaphrodites in nature. I came to realize, only human beings are separated into Male and Female. Did God do this to punish us? Ironically, no. God thought He was creating a superior race this way, above the angels and gods He made first. Hence the reason why, in the old testament and other places, He sometimes makes angels walk as men or women amongst human beings. Sometimes to humble or punish them... and other times to reward them, actually. All this is true!
So, no, I do not believe in the Devil as an evil being who wants people to do evil. I do believe in the existence of the being people think of in that way, but that they are confused about it. In various scriptures, it says that "Even The Devil serves the Lord, and wants people not to turn from God but to emrace God, and thus avoid Hell."
Lucifer doesn't want to hurt you, but he/she will do his/her job if he/she has to. Thusly another scriptural statement: "Hell has no power over the righteous." Regarding the book of Revelation, it mostly pertains to the fall of the Roman Empire (The Beast), the Roman Emperor (The Antichrist), and the end of ancient religions (False Propthet) in favor of the modern ones we know today. I do beleive that a Judgement Day will happen at the end of time, though, and that this is the only part of Revelation that has not *already* been fulfilled. But I think the part saying that the Devil will be thrown into the lake of fire refers to people's conception of the Devil as we have it today. That has to go, eventually, because it is both untrue and outdated in the face of the truth.
Remember: 666 is not the number of the "Devil" but the encoded name of several Roman Emperors. Caligula, Nero, and Domitian were all called "The Beast" by their subjects, who suffered under them and those who weren't under Roman "protection" were not allowed to buy or sell because they were not Roman citizens. This led to them being either enslaved, put to death, or forced to become Roman citizens. Plus, the Romans destroyed the Temple and erected an image of the Emperor in it, while claiming the emperor was God. All, as prophecied!
So Revelation has one foot in the past, and the other in the future. That is my interpretation.
I have other beliefs too, regarding Revelation but that is the basics of how I reason them out.
- Free will in a free society...
The best part though, is no one has to agree with me about any of this. We are all free to make up our own minds about the nature of Man, God, and the Universe in all it's diversity. But one thing we must do: we must respect one another's beliefs and the right to have the belief system that is working for them. I would never impose mine on anyone, and I would never accept any beliefs that were imposed on me by another. That is why I am glad that America has not lost the freedom to choose one's own religion. That is the one right which everyone whould have as a given, no matter who they are or where they live. Amen to that! ;)

InterestingSounds like you have done a pretty good job of fitting your religion to suit your needsIve made up my own religion (purely as an intellectual exercise) a few times.I just couldnt bring myself to actually believe it.

hi! where exactly does it say "all good and evil come from me" (chapter and verse please)

There are several chapters and verses I can and will list, in which this is stated. Obviously and not so obviously. Over the years, religions have played this aspect of God down. But here it is:

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


Job, Chapter 25

2 "Dominion and fear are with God; he makes peace in his high heaven. 3 Is there any number to his armies? Upon whom does his light not arise? 4 How then can man be righteous before God? How can he who is born of woman be clean? 5 Behold, even the moon is not bright and the stars are not clean in his sight; 6 how much less man, who is a maggot, and the son of man, who is a worm!"

Job, Chapter 12:

13 "With God are wisdom and might; he has counsel and understanding. 14 If he tears down, none can rebuild; if he shuts a man in, none can open. 15 If he withholds the waters, they dry up; if he sends them out, they overwhelm the land. 16 With him are strength and wisdom; the deceived and the deceiver are his. 17 He leads counselors away stripped, and judges he makes fools. 18 He looses the bonds of kings, and binds a waistcloth on their loins. 19 He leads priests away stripped, and overthrows the mighty. 20 He deprives of speech those who are trusted, and takes away the discernment of the elders. 21 He pours contempt on princes, and looses the belt of the strong. 22 He uncovers the deeps out of darkness, and brings deep darkness to light. 23 He makes nations great, and he destroys them: he enlarges nations, and leads them away. 24 He takes away understanding from the chiefs of the people of the earth, and makes them wander in a pathless waste. 25 They grope in the dark without light; and he makes them stagger like a drunken man.

Job, Chapter 4:

17 'Can mortal man be righteous before God? Can a man be pure before his Maker? 18 Even in his servants he puts no trust, and his angels he charges with error; 19 how much more those who dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, who are crushed before the moth. 20 Between morning and evening they are destroyed; they perish for ever without any regarding it. 21 If their tent-cord is plucked up within them, do they not die, and that without wisdom?'

So, when you take all that into consideration, God is sometimes as human in his behavior as we.

thanks for sharing

No problem. Another excellent statement is in the Book of Lamentations. Here is that, and other odd passages for folks who want to learn more about these extremely obscure parts of the Bible:

Lamentations 3:37-38 clearly states...

Who is he that can speak, and it happens, when the Lord command it not? 37
Out of the mouth of the Most High proceedeth not both evil and good? 38

Exodus 32:14...

And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Amos 3:6...

6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD has not done it?

Some final thoughts on this train of thought:
It *was* God who gave Satan/Lucifer the power to torment Job, as a test of Job's faithfulness.
Add to this the fact that God created all of the fallen angels, and gave them Hell/the Underworld to rule over, and so gave them power over people, and you have a God that, while intending to do good, sometimes employs evil as an agent or force to work His will. Only He knows the reason, and it isn't for us to question that reason, but for better for worse... there you have it. ;) So, if I were to say something profound to sum up what I think about the matter, it would be: Keep on the good side of God, because you wouldn't want to be on His bad side. I don't think we'd like Him when He gets angty. Lol. Anyhow, that's enough church for today. I have to get back to work; just had to post these additions to my initial post... to help clarify some things people wondered about.

The mere fact that a question like this would even be asked in the bible is disgusting.

It clearly implies that women are both second-class beings to men, and unclean as well.

Anyone who says that the Bible isn't male-chauvinistic is in serious denial there's absolutely no doubt about this.

I personally denounce the whole religion as nothing more than Mediterranean mythology. It has no more merit than Greek Mythology. Absolutely none.

It's chuck full of the same kinds of absurdities. Including the god's need for blood sacrifices which culminated in the rumors of the crucifixion of the Christ as a sacrificial lamb of God.

In fact, those rumors have been shown to be just that IMHO.

the word you quote as "evil" in Isaiah 45:7 is actually translated as "calamity". this is not the same as moral evil. most people do not desire moral evil, but often (unknowingly)bring calamity upon themselves.
the other verses you quoted do not say that moral evil comes from God either. calamity,on the other hand,was definitely what befell Job.
what i was really curious about: what are the differences you've seen between wicca and druidism (other than druidic human sacrifice of course)? i had always been told that wicca was basically a modern day name for druidic religion.

you don't concider calamity to be moral evil? well your partly right about the word - it is in strongs <07451> the word ra-rah it is used as evil 442 times through out the OT. the diaglot, LXX, douay's, Youngs tranlation. stephanus, KJAV, and all the other older bibles i have access to translate it to say "EVIL" it is used here and in genesis and lamentations and elsewhere and is all the same hebrew word. as a noun it is used to describe evil, distress, misery,injury and lastly calamity. but if you cant see they all are EVIL actions then there is something wrong- because the newer bibles have used calamity just shows me that they will do whatever is necessary to keep there god holy and pure as the driven snow. It's not like this is some new revelatrion of the various words that it can reffer to, it's man's attempting to make it so that he can cover gods ASSS! god dont need no help - gods fugged up enough,let him cover his own asss. it's just like
when they changed the word "replenish" to fill which makes no sense at all - he says to adam and eve and replenish the earth meaning to RE-FILL or replenish and the nnow it supposed to mean fill - aint buying it! the exact same word is used in the case of god telling noah to replenish the earth - and it can mean no other than to refill re-populate since everyone was drowned/killed by the flood - i'm sure this will continue till they have changed every contetous thing thats foud bu others to debate and argue over as has been done for thousands of years now - good luck with that.

to Draco 7 - thnx for this info - i wil use it in other post for sure.

Hello Draco. Your journey had some similarities with mine.

I tell people all the time that when I unshackled myself from man made religions, I became free. My spirit flew and became one with the universe as it always wanted to be and as it was always supposed to be.

I have been told there is a difference from what I am and an Atheist. I chose not to label myself, just be what I am and be at peace within myself and live a good life. I desire nothing more.

I agree that we have to do and be what is good for each of us. Noone on this earth can tell us what is best for us spiritually, it is a personal journey. Thank you for sharing.

In answer to what differences I've seen between Wicca and Druidry, I can provide a great many...

Difference I: Religious Focus -

1. Druidry restricts it's beliefs to nature-based or celtic-based deities, as well as reincarnation.

2. Wicca allows for beliefs in any and all gods / goddesses and belief in reincarnation is not part of the religion per se, but it can be if desired.

Regarding sacrifice, neither modern day druids nor Wiccans believe in sacrifices of the sort the ancient peoples did. Today, Druids and Wiccans perform what is called bloodless sacrifice where the object being offered up is incense, sacred herbs, a sanctified object or something similar.
In modern Druidry the offering must be something that comes from natures, like a leaf or a twig, but in Wicca it can be anything inanimate. So I suppose that too is a difference between them.

My Thoughts: When I was a teenager I used to tend to go to extremes to get the attention of higher powers. The stupidest thing I ever did, was once pricking my finger to give of my very blood, and all without realizing this was not merely silly but foolish too. More often than not, it got the attention of dark, negative, demonic beings that are not desirable to draw the attention of. I had learned a valuable lesson: make peaceful offering if any offering at all. So, I concur with modern Druids and Wiccans on that. Spiritual beings can be good and evil, light and dark. I say, always know what you are dealing with beforehand. It can not be stated enough that knowledge is power. It is. However, everything has a light and dark side.

Difference II: Terminology -

1. In Druidry the terms for things are based on centuries of druidic tradition, and have a celtic phrasing to them. For instance, the Otherworld is what Druids call the afterlife, for the most part.
Much of Druidic philosophy regarding this derives more from ancient Gaul than Ireland or Scotland.

2. In Wicca, Otherworld can be used as a term but Underworld or Netherworld is just as acceptable. Sometimes Heaven, Heavens, Hell, or Hells are all terms you'll hear used in Wicca, but in Druidry it's often just Otherworld or Annwynn (Pronounced as Anuvin). So, that is another major difference.

My Thoughts: There are many realities and levels of reality in the Multiverse that are beyond our physical peceptions. Even time is infinite, so it is humbling to consider the afterlife. I believe, as I said, in reincarnation but I also believe in infinite possibilities. No two fates are the same so one must experience, and decide, for oneself.
Me, I have glimpsed some pretty heavy things. And I have NEVER drank, taken drugs, or done anything that could affect my mind. So, what I've seen I know to have been real. But, reality is honestly one part truth and one part illusion, so I always bear in mind that we can only "see" so much truth.
Even I have had moments when I saw too much. So, I say use caution when opening your inner eye. ;)

Difference III: Where Power Comes From -

1. In Druidry, power is said to derive from both the gods and from Nature but not so much from the person per se. The person more channels forces... rather than generates the forces... so to speak.

2. In Wicca, however, power can come as much from a person's willpower as from gods, nature, or all manner of outside forces. Concentration is every bit as important as invocation and supplication.

My Thoughts: Human willpower is important, but it has limitations. Sometimes, we all need some help from a higher power. It need not perhaps be "God" per se, but a god or a goddess, an angel, even a saint, can be of tremendous help in matters that are just beyond our ability to deal with. It can and does vary from person to person, however. Not everyone has the same level of willpower and / or concentration. Not everyone can establish direct connections with divine beings. That is why there are, in every religion, practitioners and plain worshippers. I've been both, in my time, and one thing I've learned is that one should never seek power. One should seek peace. True power comes with peace, wisdom, knowledge, and enlightenment.

Difference IV: Rituals and Customs -

1. Druidic Rituals, today, are mostly symbolic in nature and are designed to focus the mind towards a oneness with nature and divinity. Philosophy is perhaps the best term to describe the Druidic way.
But there is a bit more than philosophy at work.

2. Modern Wiccan Rituals also are symbolic and are designed to focus one's mind, but the focus in this case is achieve a desired result. This aspect is to the lay person best termed Magic, or Mysticism. But it is truly something far deeper.

My Thoughts: I've always thought on too high of a plane, so to speak, to content myself merely with revering nature. While I do have a great love for the natural world, and a deep reverence for it, I realize there *are* higher things that sometimes are more worth a person's time and energy to deal with. I won't say I have practiced "Magic" since it is SO archaic a word but I have bent my will to achieve specific goals in life, and to aid me in those goals I have sought divine aid. It was sometimes successful and sometimes not so much so.
Everyone pays a certain price, even Christians, when dealing with God / Goddess or any other such being. My advice is, make certain you don't seek after something you have to pay *too* dearly for.

All these bits, of course, are based upon my own personal experiences and opinions. You may find it best to formulate your own, but if you happen to find any of it useful, I am happy to have been of assistance to you in that regard. Farewell! :)