Been there and done that.

What I've learned is that the Bible is full of lies, and that praying to the Holy Spirit doesn't change what's in the book.

You speak about wanting to know truth, but are you even aware that the story of Jesus was actually copied from previously existing Mediterranean myths.

If you're interested in learning about truth, the truth is that the bible can't possible have anything to do with the creator of this universe.

Surely you don't believe that the creator of this unviverse actually asked people to stone their unruly children to death?

Why would you want to be believe that God is like that?

You define God by which picture you chose to believe in.

If you choose to believe in the biblical picture of God then you are demanding that God be like that picture. You're not allowing God to be anything other than that. You've stripped God of his Free Will and boxed him into an ancient mythology.

A mythology that has so much in common with all the other mythologies of the Mediterranean region.

http://www.pocm.info/index.html

I don't denounce my creator in the slightest.

But I do denounce horrific stories that claim that God has many human frailties and an ego bigger than any mortal man could possible muster.

If you're seeking truth, the Bible is the last book you want to read.

"YamilethJ" if you claim to have studied the bible and have an understanding of God then it is in your hands to give the knowledge and not laid the blame on God to do it ..because isn't that what God expect his followers to do

so why would you expect a non-believer to run to the bible or pray to the Holy spirit to get an answer when you surely must have done the same thing but yet you can't answer the questions

Why would you waste your time?

There are passages in the bible that defy rational thought. Miracles, absurdities, moral inconsistencies.

Some things just don't make sense... "My god, my god, why hast thou forsaken me." I have never seen a good explanation of that.

And when Jesus tries to weasel out of the crucifixion, by saying in the Garden of Gethsemane: "Father, if it be possible to let this cup pass from me..."

If he was god, and he knew everything, this just does not make sense.

And in the nineteenth chapter of Matthew: "And behold, one came and said unto him: 'Good master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?' And he said unto him, 'Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God."

No one has EVER explained that one. You want to take a stab at it??


So Isa is saying he isnt good.

The issue is not that simple at all .
What is said here is non sense .
The real thought is : how can something starting from nothing ( zero ) create mega trillions of things ?!. It does not make sense at all .
.

for the first part, I buy you a beer, shake you warmly by the hand . It is nonsense. the whole god theory is nonsense ... but

The second part, however I don't believe everything came from nothing.

If you think so, you are in need of a science lesson. As far as we know, energy/matter is eternal.

It may be that space is infinite. It may be that energy is eternal.

But does that imply the possibility of a god that is also eternal? I think not.

It is is a far cry from matter and energy to a sentient, omnipotent, omnicient, omnibenevolent, male-gender, nonphysical, non-aging, non-ingesting being who is interested in the personal lives of 6 billion human beings on a small planet orbiting one star out of billions of trillions of other stars in the vast emptiness of space, who delights in the smell of burning goat flesh, who specified that entering the holy place without wearing bells can result in death (EX 28:34-35), and who killed 50,000 people for merely looking at the box that contained the tablets of the 10 commandments.

People keep talking about a supernatural god, yet no one has ever seen him, there's just someone's diary, allegedly from 2000 years ago, and we don't know if it's real, because it's full of silly miracles that no one on earth can verify.

It sounds just like every other primitive god story from a hundred other cultures. The people who believe in this god deny the existence of all the other gods, yet can produce no good evidence that their god is any more real than any other.

In the name of this god, his followers have tortured and killed those who did not believe in the existence of gods, or thought his hair was brown instead of black, or believed in a different god, all the while claiming moral superiority for themselves.

They don't even read the bible to realize it is the farthest thing from a moral ideal as can be imagined. God's own book paints him as a bloodthirsty monster with neither compassion nor mercy, yet his followers rationalize and ignore the obvious, still claiming a monopoly on morality, and think that no one else can be moral without believing, and go around telling nonbelievers of their future damnation.

The believers to this day still persecute those who don't believe, both physically and nonphysically. They claim they are the ones who don't get religious freedom, yet they attempt to force their belief into the lives of everyone else, through legislature and constant indoctrination.

.. and all this came from "nothing"?

Mr Belushi :

All I know is that I was created since I did not create myself by myself .
I have no idea how life started .
I have no idea who created this universe .
Religion for me is a hoax .
Science did not offer me an understanding of how all this universe and beyond were found .
As far as a god or gods , who created whom from point zero until now is a mystery too .
Since you are in Egypt , try to enjoy all the belly dancers for me : nice music and nice bodies too . .

Unfortunately, I live in an area that doesnt do belly dancing.

My local Egyptians are Bedou, and as such would rather sleep with their camels than their wives!

You could go to a doctor and have him snip a few things in your brain and you would never again feel any physical pain.

A friend of mine who had to live with horrible back pain was given this option. He refused.

If you don't feel the pain you cannot know if what you are doing is going to cause you more injury.

There is a good reason for pain and suffering in this world and a good reason for joy and happiness.

Stop complaining and just accept what is and make the best of it.

Whimps!!

JB

Pain and suffering is not really a reason to question god in my eyes. I believe we feel pain to learn and if we did not have pain we would not learn many of the greatest lessons we have to learn in life.

I don't believe in a greater creature than ourselves who created man to torture him with a devil and cause prejudice and superiority in the masses by saying "there are only a chosen few", etc....

rest my case because god is first God is last
I must repeat this prase again over and over again until there's understanding
To understand and have answers for what you are asking for....We must learn who is god, what he wants from us, why things happen, and why we go through, If you really looking for the true and wants to have answers, Pray the holy spirit for his wisdom and study the bible,,,,I can not explain to you in a small parragraph what is God, it will take years and years to learn the whole concept....the answers are in the bible from the beginning to the end, If you really wanted to know ...at least by curiosity....read it ...and find out...is not in our hands as humans give you that knowledge it is only you who has those doubts it is something betwee God and you ....and it is soul by soul, person by person who has to understand their own answers.
god Bless

For you FUNCHIS

You just want life be the way you want it ...you are looking for answers on your own way....confront god he will give it to you exactly the way you need to hear it
I am not God......It must be a relationship between you and him I am just being part of the invitation for you to deal with him.

I could get the same invitation from someone in the Klan ..oh Funches I can't tell you anything about the Grand Dragon so first you have to go to a Klan meeting and then pray to the Grand dragon and have a personal relationship with him ...all you are doing is introducing others into something you lack the knowledge about yourself

I will pray for you
God Bless

that phrase shows your indifference to others ..so instead of being able to answer questions you instead resort to forcing your religious blessings upon others .. now what if I say may Satan bless you and send his legion of demons to watch over you ..do you also wish Jews a Merry Christmas

YamilethJ,

Repeating a phrase again and over and over again is not so that it will be "understood." This, my friend, is a glaring teaching and brainwashing tool.

If a thing is repeated over and over again and again, the subconscious mind accepts it as truth because the subconscious mind does not discriminate truth from falsehoods. It is simply a tool that, like a computer, processes information.

This is a VERY IMPORTANT FACT about the subconscious mind that not many people are aware of except people who study the mind and teaching and brain washing techniques.

It is also a fact I talk about having to do with the law of Attraction and manifesting or creating your personal reality.
The subconscious mind does not discriminate false from true. To it, everything is just information and it is accepted as truth.

If you think about a thing and speak about it constantly, and put your attention on it consistently, it will manifest (become apparent) in your reality.

Know that what you may believe is truth may be something that you have repeated over and over and is what you have programed you subconscious mind to accept as truth.

I post this for others, not for you, because I suspect that it will fall on deft ears and be rejected by you.


JB

That is your opinion,,,,,thanks so much for being part of this discussion
What i think, what you think, what others think it is what makes this subjects pretty interesting
I also gave my opinion but there's no way I want to impose anything on no one, God has to be a conviction something you decided to follow, I am repeating the phrase because for myself there's no others explanations, God is only one and God is my life....whatever comments I respect we are just giving our opinions ...at the end we will see who is right, but I am not gaining enemies through this via, I am explaining my point of view only,
i live on a country where there's all religions but there's something universal call love and God is love, muslims, jewish, even atheists know how to respect each other so I would not say Merry Christmas to jewish but they are so wonderful that they come to my home to wish us Merry Christmas ...just showing respect for my religion, because they believe in God and they know that God loves not hates so what bad he can be when he is only asking to forgive your brother, to love enemies as your love yourself to etc.
but that is why i will always say....read the bible and you will understand
Once more God Bless

The notion of a 'God' allowing pain and suffering presupposes that 'God' has the ability to intervene and change the course of events that will come, but has willfully chosen to not intervene for some reason.

The metaphor of the barber adds additional "understanding" to this by allowing the fault to be assumed by the one who is suffering. It is expressed that as a result of their not choosing to go into 'God's' barber shop for help, 'God' has allowed this suffering to exist.

This has several implications which are troublesome to one such as myself.

It refutes the story of Job who did ask, believe, and maintained his hope throughout the unjust and continual suffering which was supposedly allowed by 'God'.

If we were to infer this concept of the barber with everyday life, then actuality would support it if it were true.

So then, is everyone who suffers the blame of their own suffering as a result of not asking 'God' for help?

That would be to say that all who suffer have not asked.

It would also be to say that all who ask do not suffer.

Furthermore, if this were true, then we could also infer that all who are not suffering have asked 'God' for help?

Actual reality says otherwise.

These extreme polarizations of pain and suffering vs. happily existing without represent the same measuring rod. Neither exist without the presence of the other.

Absolutely. The analogy given in the OP is actually anti-biblical. It flies in the face of the teachings of the Bible. Anyone who believes that everyone who is suffering is bringing it on themselves by being a non-believer clearly has no clue what the Bible even says.

The story of Job explains perfectly well that God will give Satan his permission and therefore his approval to inflict pain and misery even upon his most devout followers and believers.

In fact, when you think about the book of Job, Satan actually did not not even make a move on Job untill he cleared it with God. Satan went to God and asked for permission to inflict great pain and tragedy upon Job. So here we even have Satan himself asking God for permission to do bad things.

Moreover, since God actually GAVE Satan permission that implies that Satan was actually doing the will of God! He certainly wasn't going against God's will if he had God's permission!

You can't be disobeying God if God gave you permission to do something!

In fact, the book of Job brings in to question the whole concept of Satan going against the will of God. If Satan was asking for God's permission in the case of Job, then he probably asks for God's permission for everything thing he does. After all, why make an exception in the case of Job?

Clearly there's a huge probably with the whole story here.

I'm personally totally convinced that the vast majority of the stories in the Bible were written by shamans who, at the time were trying to make some specific point. I think in the book of Job the point that was trying to be made is that no matter how miserable your life is you shouldn't give up faith in God because there must be an explanation for it and we just don't know what he explanation is.

The book of Job is actually a perfect example of teaching people to have blind faith. No matter how impossible or absurd the biblical stories may seem, you must continue to believe in them anyway. Don't question them, just believe. The idea being that there must be a rational explanation out there somewhere and we just don't yet know it.

But why should we be asked to believe in the biblical stories without asking questions? Why not believe in Greek Mythology and not ask any questions? Or any other religion for that matter.

Just believe in Pantheism and don't ask questions.

That mentality could be applied to anything including atheism!

If a person is going to believe something on pure faith, why choose the bibilcal picture? It's not a good picture at all. Lots of loosers in that picture.

If we're going to put our faith in a belief system without asking question about it why not choose to believe in Pantheism where everyone wins. There are no losers in Pantheism. Everyone came from God and everyone returns to God in pantheism. There is no hell or eternal damnation in Pantheism.

Pantheism is the only philosophy that truly offers genuine unconditional love.

Clearly the biblical God's love is extremely conditional.

It cannot be said or claimed that the biblical God has unconditional love to offer. That flies in the face of what the bible teaches. The bible clearly places more conditions on the love of God than can be easily kept track of.

In fact, even Jesus himself said that he will reject many of those who claim to know him. So lots of people are going to be rejected by God. In fact, for those who claim that God never rejects anyone, they better think again, because to claim such a thing would be to claim that Jesus is a liar. Jesus himself said that he will refuse to acknowledge many who claim to know him. That's rejection.

So the Bible teaches that God does indeed reject people. Yet this flies in the face of what so many Christians claim that God doesn't reject anyone.

I don't think these people actually read their bibles at all.

They make claims about God that simply fly in the face of what the bible actually has to say about God.

Absolutely agree!