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| Topic: Can you believe in a Heaven? | |
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If Heaven isn't a fantasy then please explain why. thank you
If you talk to a Christian about heaven, you can clearly understand that the notion of heaven and everlasting life is imaginary. Each conversation will be different, but a typical conversation might go something like this: Chris: Jesus transcends death and promises eternal life to all who believe in him! Lift up your heart to the Lord Jesus Christ and he will give you eternal life! Norm: How will he do that? Chris: Have you ever read the book called "Left Behind?" Norm: No. Chris: You should! They have sold over 20 million copies of the book, because it is the truth! It describes exactly what will happen. One day the Lord Jesus calls his children home, and they are carried straight to heaven! Airplanes crash because their pilots have vanished. Cars run into phone poles. This is exactly what is described in the Bible. Norm: The people completely vanish? Chris: Yes. All that is left behind is their clothes, their jewelry and their hearing aids! The believers are transported directly to heaven! Norm: Their naked bodies are transported to heaven? Chris: Yes! Norm: There are six billion people on the planet. They each weigh about 150 pounds or so. Are you telling me that God lifts a trillion pounds of human flesh off the planet in an instant? Chris: Absolutely not! Only the believers are transported! Norm: OK, half a trillion pounds? Chris: Yes! Norm: And where does this half a trillion pounds of flesh go? Chris: To heaven! Norm: To heaven... where is that? Chris: It is in another dimension, of course! God lives in heaven! Norm: How do all the bodies get to this "other dimension" called "heaven"? Do they float up into the sky and then travel through the vacuum of space? Chris: No, silly! They are dematerialized and then rematerialize in heaven! Norm: So you are saying that half a trillion pounds of naked human flesh are somehow "dematerialized" out of our universe, and then they "rematerialize" in "another dimension" called "heaven?" And the "dematerializing" process somehow distinguishes between natural human flesh and unnatural things like clothing and hearing aids? Chris: Yes! Norm: So... what if the person has artificial heart valves, a couple of stents and two titanium hip joints? Are those ripped out of his body and left behind with his jewelry? Chris: Yes! Norm: And what happens to that poor person, whose heart collapses and whose legs are now flopping around detached from his pelvis? Chris: The book doesn't really talk about that... I imagine God would fix them up! Norm: And what about all the people whose bodies are wracked with cancer and AIDS and emphysema? Chris: God fixes them all up too! Norm: And what about all the decrepit 80-year-old bodies? Chris: God gives them new, young, beautiful bodies! Norm: And what about all the people whose bodies have died and decomposed? Chris: God gives them young, new, beautiful bodies too! Norm: So why bother transporting the bodies of the believers to heaven? Why not just give everyone a new, young, beautiful body and leave their old bodies on earth? Chris: The Bible says that your body is transported to heaven! It is right there in black and white in the "Left Behind" books! That is God's will! Norm: OK, so heaven is full of people whose bodies or corpses or whatever have been "dematerialized" from earth, and then "rematerialized" in "heaven." And then the dematerialized/rematerialized bodies are discarded, and they are replaced with new, young, beautiful bodies? Chris: Yes! Now you understand the power of the Lord Jesus Christ! Norm: What happens next? Chris: The believers all live in heaven in peace, harmony and joy for eternity! Norm: What is heaven like? Chris: We get to reunite with all of our dead friends and family members! We get to meet our ancestors for the first time! Norm: Really? Chris: Absolutely! Norm: What about people like George Washington and Benjamin Franklin? Chris: Everyone is there! You can talk to anyone all through history! Plus you get to meet God and Jesus. I can't wait to meet Jesus! Norm: That sounds like fun. What else? Chris: Well, the streets are paved in gold! It says so in the Bible! And everyone has a big house! And you can eat whatever you want and not get fat! And really, you just do anything that makes you happy! Everyone is always happy! And so on. After listening to a conversation like this, it should be obvious to all of us: Heaven is imaginary. It is all completely imaginary. Simply talk to Christians about heaven. Ask them to describe what heaven is like, and how they will get there. You will be able to feel the absurdity of this notion in two different ways: There is the direct absurdity as in the dialog above, where the creation of entirely new and completely imaginary "dimensions" and "materialization processes" tells you everything you need to know about how delusional things can get. There is also the absurdity that comes when you compare any two people's views of heaven. Everyone's fabrication of heaven is different. For some it involves harps and clouds and halos. For others it involves hot and cold running virgins. For some people, the actual body is transported magically to heaven as described in the "Left Behind" books. For others, your "soul" floats out of the body and makes it way to St. Peter. And so on. People make up anything they like, because heaven is a completely imaginary place. Heaven is a fairy tale invented by human imagination. And each person's fairy tale is different. We imagine that we have "souls," fabricate the concept of "eternal life" and then fantasize a place called "heaven," complete with streets of gold, calorie-free foods, frolicking virgins and whatever else we can come up with. Christians imagine it so vividly and repeat the fantasy so often that they actually believe it to be reality. How bizarre can the fantasies get? Fly to Cairo and take a look at the Great Pyramid. There is the pyramid itself -- still one of the largest man-made objects on earth. In addition there is the whole mummification process, the disassembled boats, the sacred artwork and so on. All of this was designed to help the pharaoh reach the afterlife. We look at it now and we all know, with absolute certainty, that it was a complete and total waste of time. The Egyptian notion of the afterlife was a fantasy. The Christian notion of the afterlife is a fantasy in exactly the same way. Heaven is completely imaginary, just like God. |
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I agree my friend! No we are gonna build a latter to heaven!
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hey smiless how about u read a book called the Bible
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I offer that Heaven (and Hell) are internal states not places, across the spectrum of all religion, not just Christianity.
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I read the bible many times its a fantastic fiction book with great short stories in it!
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I see this time you put a capital "G" on God.
Are you getting worried?? "FAITH" is a strong word. |
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FAITH IS KEY! But still GOD is a LIE! Think about it has he answered any of ur prayers?
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FAITH IS KEY! But still GOD is a LIE! Think about it has he answered any of ur prayers? I'm sorry for you. To answer your Q. Yes. Many. From small(That looks nasty, I hope it tastes good) To, large. The large one is between me and God. I will say that I am alive today because of God answering mine and my family plus friends prayers. |
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If Heaven isn't a fantasy then please explain why. thank you If you talk to a Christian about heaven, you can clearly understand that the notion of heaven and everlasting life is imaginary. Each conversation will be different, but a typical conversation might go something like this: Chris: Jesus transcends death and promises eternal life to all who believe in him! Lift up your heart to the Lord Jesus Christ and he will give you eternal life! Norm: How will he do that? Chris: Have you ever read the book called "Left Behind?" Norm: No. Chris: You should! They have sold over 20 million copies of the book, because it is the truth! It describes exactly what will happen. One day the Lord Jesus calls his children home, and they are carried straight to heaven! Airplanes crash because their pilots have vanished. Cars run into phone poles. This is exactly what is described in the Bible. Norm: The people completely vanish? Chris: Yes. All that is left behind is their clothes, their jewelry and their hearing aids! The believers are transported directly to heaven! Norm: Their naked bodies are transported to heaven? Chris: Yes! Norm: There are six billion people on the planet. They each weigh about 150 pounds or so. Are you telling me that God lifts a trillion pounds of human flesh off the planet in an instant? Chris: Absolutely not! Only the believers are transported! Norm: OK, half a trillion pounds? Chris: Yes! Norm: And where does this half a trillion pounds of flesh go? Chris: To heaven! Norm: To heaven... where is that? Chris: It is in another dimension, of course! God lives in heaven! Norm: How do all the bodies get to this "other dimension" called "heaven"? Do they float up into the sky and then travel through the vacuum of space? Chris: No, silly! They are dematerialized and then rematerialize in heaven! Norm: So you are saying that half a trillion pounds of naked human flesh are somehow "dematerialized" out of our universe, and then they "rematerialize" in "another dimension" called "heaven?" And the "dematerializing" process somehow distinguishes between natural human flesh and unnatural things like clothing and hearing aids? Chris: Yes! Norm: So... what if the person has artificial heart valves, a couple of stents and two titanium hip joints? Are those ripped out of his body and left behind with his jewelry? Chris: Yes! Norm: And what happens to that poor person, whose heart collapses and whose legs are now flopping around detached from his pelvis? Chris: The book doesn't really talk about that... I imagine God would fix them up! Norm: And what about all the people whose bodies are wracked with cancer and AIDS and emphysema? Chris: God fixes them all up too! Norm: And what about all the decrepit 80-year-old bodies? Chris: God gives them new, young, beautiful bodies! Norm: And what about all the people whose bodies have died and decomposed? Chris: God gives them young, new, beautiful bodies too! Norm: So why bother transporting the bodies of the believers to heaven? Why not just give everyone a new, young, beautiful body and leave their old bodies on earth? Chris: The Bible says that your body is transported to heaven! It is right there in black and white in the "Left Behind" books! That is God's will! Norm: OK, so heaven is full of people whose bodies or corpses or whatever have been "dematerialized" from earth, and then "rematerialized" in "heaven." And then the dematerialized/rematerialized bodies are discarded, and they are replaced with new, young, beautiful bodies? Chris: Yes! Now you understand the power of the Lord Jesus Christ! Norm: What happens next? Chris: The believers all live in heaven in peace, harmony and joy for eternity! Norm: What is heaven like? Chris: We get to reunite with all of our dead friends and family members! We get to meet our ancestors for the first time! Norm: Really? Chris: Absolutely! Norm: What about people like George Washington and Benjamin Franklin? Chris: Everyone is there! You can talk to anyone all through history! Plus you get to meet God and Jesus. I can't wait to meet Jesus! Norm: That sounds like fun. What else? Chris: Well, the streets are paved in gold! It says so in the Bible! And everyone has a big house! And you can eat whatever you want and not get fat! And really, you just do anything that makes you happy! Everyone is always happy! And so on. After listening to a conversation like this, it should be obvious to all of us: Heaven is imaginary. It is all completely imaginary. Simply talk to Christians about heaven. Ask them to describe what heaven is like, and how they will get there. You will be able to feel the absurdity of this notion in two different ways: There is the direct absurdity as in the dialog above, where the creation of entirely new and completely imaginary "dimensions" and "materialization processes" tells you everything you need to know about how delusional things can get. There is also the absurdity that comes when you compare any two people's views of heaven. Everyone's fabrication of heaven is different. For some it involves harps and clouds and halos. For others it involves hot and cold running virgins. For some people, the actual body is transported magically to heaven as described in the "Left Behind" books. For others, your "soul" floats out of the body and makes it way to St. Peter. And so on. People make up anything they like, because heaven is a completely imaginary place. Heaven is a fairy tale invented by human imagination. And each person's fairy tale is different. We imagine that we have "souls," fabricate the concept of "eternal life" and then fantasize a place called "heaven," complete with streets of gold, calorie-free foods, frolicking virgins and whatever else we can come up with. Christians imagine it so vividly and repeat the fantasy so often that they actually believe it to be reality. How bizarre can the fantasies get? Fly to Cairo and take a look at the Great Pyramid. There is the pyramid itself -- still one of the largest man-made objects on earth. In addition there is the whole mummification process, the disassembled boats, the sacred artwork and so on. All of this was designed to help the pharaoh reach the afterlife. We look at it now and we all know, with absolute certainty, that it was a complete and total waste of time. The Egyptian notion of the afterlife was a fantasy. The Christian notion of the afterlife is a fantasy in exactly the same way. Heaven is completely imaginary, just like God. You have not talked to me about heaven. What you have presented here is just a distorted fundamentalistic postion.l Not mine at all. |
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If Heaven isn't a fantasy then please explain why. thank you If you talk to a Christian about heaven, you can clearly understand that the notion of heaven and everlasting life is imaginary. Each conversation will be different, but a typical conversation might go something like this: Chris: Jesus transcends death and promises eternal life to all who believe in him! Lift up your heart to the Lord Jesus Christ and he will give you eternal life! Norm: How will he do that? Chris: Have you ever read the book called "Left Behind?" Norm: No. Chris: You should! They have sold over 20 million copies of the book, because it is the truth! It describes exactly what will happen. One day the Lord Jesus calls his children home, and they are carried straight to heaven! Airplanes crash because their pilots have vanished. Cars run into phone poles. This is exactly what is described in the Bible. Norm: The people completely vanish? Chris: Yes. All that is left behind is their clothes, their jewelry and their hearing aids! The believers are transported directly to heaven! Norm: Their naked bodies are transported to heaven? Chris: Yes! Norm: There are six billion people on the planet. They each weigh about 150 pounds or so. Are you telling me that God lifts a trillion pounds of human flesh off the planet in an instant? Chris: Absolutely not! Only the believers are transported! Norm: OK, half a trillion pounds? Chris: Yes! Norm: And where does this half a trillion pounds of flesh go? Chris: To heaven! Norm: To heaven... where is that? Chris: It is in another dimension, of course! God lives in heaven! Norm: How do all the bodies get to this "other dimension" called "heaven"? Do they float up into the sky and then travel through the vacuum of space? Chris: No, silly! They are dematerialized and then rematerialize in heaven! Norm: So you are saying that half a trillion pounds of naked human flesh are somehow "dematerialized" out of our universe, and then they "rematerialize" in "another dimension" called "heaven?" And the "dematerializing" process somehow distinguishes between natural human flesh and unnatural things like clothing and hearing aids? Chris: Yes! Norm: So... what if the person has artificial heart valves, a couple of stents and two titanium hip joints? Are those ripped out of his body and left behind with his jewelry? Chris: Yes! Norm: And what happens to that poor person, whose heart collapses and whose legs are now flopping around detached from his pelvis? Chris: The book doesn't really talk about that... I imagine God would fix them up! Norm: And what about all the people whose bodies are wracked with cancer and AIDS and emphysema? Chris: God fixes them all up too! Norm: And what about all the decrepit 80-year-old bodies? Chris: God gives them new, young, beautiful bodies! Norm: And what about all the people whose bodies have died and decomposed? Chris: God gives them young, new, beautiful bodies too! Norm: So why bother transporting the bodies of the believers to heaven? Why not just give everyone a new, young, beautiful body and leave their old bodies on earth? Chris: The Bible says that your body is transported to heaven! It is right there in black and white in the "Left Behind" books! That is God's will! Norm: OK, so heaven is full of people whose bodies or corpses or whatever have been "dematerialized" from earth, and then "rematerialized" in "heaven." And then the dematerialized/rematerialized bodies are discarded, and they are replaced with new, young, beautiful bodies? Chris: Yes! Now you understand the power of the Lord Jesus Christ! Norm: What happens next? Chris: The believers all live in heaven in peace, harmony and joy for eternity! Norm: What is heaven like? Chris: We get to reunite with all of our dead friends and family members! We get to meet our ancestors for the first time! Norm: Really? Chris: Absolutely! Norm: What about people like George Washington and Benjamin Franklin? Chris: Everyone is there! You can talk to anyone all through history! Plus you get to meet God and Jesus. I can't wait to meet Jesus! Norm: That sounds like fun. What else? Chris: Well, the streets are paved in gold! It says so in the Bible! And everyone has a big house! And you can eat whatever you want and not get fat! And really, you just do anything that makes you happy! Everyone is always happy! And so on. After listening to a conversation like this, it should be obvious to all of us: Heaven is imaginary. It is all completely imaginary. Simply talk to Christians about heaven. Ask them to describe what heaven is like, and how they will get there. You will be able to feel the absurdity of this notion in two different ways: There is the direct absurdity as in the dialog above, where the creation of entirely new and completely imaginary "dimensions" and "materialization processes" tells you everything you need to know about how delusional things can get. There is also the absurdity that comes when you compare any two people's views of heaven. Everyone's fabrication of heaven is different. For some it involves harps and clouds and halos. For others it involves hot and cold running virgins. For some people, the actual body is transported magically to heaven as described in the "Left Behind" books. For others, your "soul" floats out of the body and makes it way to St. Peter. And so on. People make up anything they like, because heaven is a completely imaginary place. Heaven is a fairy tale invented by human imagination. And each person's fairy tale is different. We imagine that we have "souls," fabricate the concept of "eternal life" and then fantasize a place called "heaven," complete with streets of gold, calorie-free foods, frolicking virgins and whatever else we can come up with. Christians imagine it so vividly and repeat the fantasy so often that they actually believe it to be reality. How bizarre can the fantasies get? Fly to Cairo and take a look at the Great Pyramid. There is the pyramid itself -- still one of the largest man-made objects on earth. In addition there is the whole mummification process, the disassembled boats, the sacred artwork and so on. All of this was designed to help the pharaoh reach the afterlife. We look at it now and we all know, with absolute certainty, that it was a complete and total waste of time. The Egyptian notion of the afterlife was a fantasy. The Christian notion of the afterlife is a fantasy in exactly the same way. Heaven is completely imaginary, just like God. You have not talked to me about heaven. What you have presented here is just a distorted fundamentalistic postion.l Not mine at all. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. I wouldn't be surprised if you absolutely believe there is a heaven. If that is your bliss then enjoy it. Just have in mind not everyone shares your view as you don't mine. |
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that is perfectly clear. People can believe in flying pigs if they want. I usually don't care.
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FAITH IS KEY! But still GOD is a LIE! Think about it has he answered any of ur prayers? many many prayers of mine have been answered and if they weren't then it wasn't in God's plan for me...the thing is why would God answer the prayer of someone who doesn't believe in him...so are you really praying or just wishing for things...you say God is a lie so you must be wishing and not praying and that's why you aren't getting answered |
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I was there when my heart stop after having my daughter. Amazing experience so yes I can say I have been to heaven and back. But I have went to hell and back and dealt with the devil himself he was call my daughters father.
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hey smiless how about u read a book called the Bible :) I agree... silly notions is what happens when people DON't READ what is said. It wouldn't matter...they would twist it anyway... they would react the same way if they tripped over a miracle. Then they wonder why nothing happens for them. These attempts to make God out to be something horrible makes those people look very bitter in deed. LOL |
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I have read the bible as of many other books! They are interesting and I am also interested on Atheists views.
Here is a explanation of why I posted hard atheists views. http://www.justsayhi.com/topic/show/138983 I wish everyone a great day including those who read and believe the bible. |
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hey smiless how about u read a book called the Bible :) I agree... silly notions is what happens when people DON't READ what is said. It wouldn't matter...they would twist it anyway... they would react the same way if they tripped over a miracle. Then they wonder why nothing happens for them. These attempts to make God out to be something horrible makes those people look very bitter in deed. LOL There you go with the bitter again! Why dont you take a look at how you respond and take some responsibility for why people turn against what you are trying to share???? Maybe it is how you represent your faith. I wouldn't want to share a cup of coffee with you, let alone your faith. |
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hey smiless how about u read a book called the Bible :) I agree... silly notions is what happens when people DON't READ what is said. It wouldn't matter...they would twist it anyway... they would react the same way if they tripped over a miracle. Then they wonder why nothing happens for them. These attempts to make God out to be something horrible makes those people look very bitter in deed. LOL There you go with the bitter again! Why dont you take a look at how you respond and take some responsibility for why people turn against what you are trying to share???? Maybe it is how you represent your faith. I wouldn't want to share a cup of coffee with you, let alone your faith. People who don't get it usually are very bitter toward God. Like yourself... you want to blame God for all your wrong choices. That is a problem I see with many who want to force their new age "religions" (how's that for "dogma") down other people's throats, not because God failed them, but because they made bad choices. You want to make it up as you go along then don't blame God or Christians for pointing out the obvious. Like I say, you can destroy your own life but don't take others down with you. |
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Quickstepper, I think the point Buffry is trying to get across is.....
(and I have to agree with Buffry) it is not about the DELIVERANCE of the message , that is the problem...... it is about HOW the Message is being Delivered. Are we Christians Condescending? Laughing ? Cocky? Do we give the appearance that we are " better than they"? If so....can we blame the non christians for being "turned off" with us Christians?? We have to remember..... we were Non christians too at one time, and didn't "Get it" either  |
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Edited by
Quikstepper
on
Mon 06/30/08 03:12 AM
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Quickstepper, I think the point Buffry is trying to get across is..... (and I have to agree with Buffry) it is not about the DELIVERANCE of the message , that is the problem...... it is about HOW the Message is being Delivered. Are we Christians Condescending? Laughing ? Cocky? Do we give the appearance that we are " better than they"? If so....can we blame the non christians for being "turned off" with us Christians?? We have to remember..... we were Non christians too at one time, and didn't "Get it" either I understand what you are saying. I was addressing how they talk about people of faith when they address EACHOTHER. I'm pointing out an observation. They accuse us of thumbing our noses when all we are doing is sharing our experiences. They are the ones who are doing the name calling because they have nothing else to say in response. It's so cowardly. We are just pointing out what we know is God's will from His word plus our experiences that back it up. Frankly this little game they play hurts them more than us. I am not responsible for their decisions I can only point the way. I will challenge them & refuse to be silenced by cop out excuses they use...terms like fundamentist..."blind" faith?" etc etc. Those are cop out excuses & we all know it too. There is no shame in pointing that out. Just sayin'... but You have a good day...God bless... :) |
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