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| Topic: is a person mean if... | |
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Tact can be useful, but there are some who go out of their way looking for something they can take as offensive -- even if they have to stretch meanings and intentions uncomfortably in order to do so. When I never said anything of the kind. It's quite frequent and extremely frustrating on here. I'm with you all the way in this one Hicker. I once said that I was not interested in meaningless sex with a stranger and I was told that I was being judgmental? Hello? |
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Tact can be useful, but there are some who go out of their way looking for something they can take as offensive -- even if they have to stretch meanings and intentions uncomfortably in order to do so. When I never said anything of the kind. It's quite frequent and extremely frustrating on here. I'm with you all the way in this one Hicker. I once said that I was not interested in meaningless sex with a stranger and I was told that I was being judgmental? Hello?  u r OK. don't pay attention to the meaningless.
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Edited by
angelindarkness
on
Sat 06/21/08 08:03 AM
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so, if it's true that the truth is always going to hurt somebody. wouldn't it be just because that we are scared of facing the truth as it is? No, I do not agree. Even as a helping professional with many years experience working with many, many different people of all biopsychosocial backgrounds, I can never know another person's inner truth and experience. I can never make decisions for anyone. How can one speculate and have the ego to think they can read another person's mind; that they know what their life experiences have been like, or current situation is. How does one have the cajones to think they know best for another person? Are they the ones who have to live in that person's shoes? Do they have to live by the consequences of that decision for the rest of THEIR lives? No. We can listen, empathise, give examples from our life experiences and what we know from others and our education - but I am emphatically AGAINST telling anyone what they should do. I will provide information about the possible consequences of someone's taking or not taking a certain action - both the positives and the negatives. BUT, it is NOT my place to dictate or to tell another what to do. It is their life to live, afterall. That being said, when we see someone is in imminent danger of doing permanent harm to themselves or another, we can be more direct, more forceful. I still believe you really need to know the person you are talking to FIRST - their vulnerabilities, their strengths, what they are capable of. To say something willy nilly could be dangerous, not only for them, but for oneself. Educate yourself about the person and about what you are dealing with before you deign to give advice. And, always remember that someday, it is possible that your words may come back to bite you in the butt. I personally prefer to avoid that kind of risk, except when it is mandated by my profession. |
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hmmm I'll have to think on that LW. I suppose one could argue intent here. Perhaps some don't choose their words as carefully as others, but there is no intent of malice. If the words aren't selected carefully, and it comes from a place of ill will, I would say that is mean. well dear, I'm posting the question considering that ill feelings and any intention to offend are out of the picture. No intent behind just telling the naked truth. There is always the high likelihood of BIAS in the "naked truth" and advice given by anyone outside of a psychiatrist, psychotherapist, counselor that you have hired to help you work out life issues and/or mood disorders....and EVEN THEN, there is still the likelihood that they are not being completely objective. Look up the word "countertransference". "Naked truth"? I THINK NOT. To say otherwise is to be uninformed or dishonest with oneself and others. |
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so, if it's true that the truth is always going to hurt somebody. wouldn't it be just because that we are scared of facing the truth as it is? No, I do not agree. Even as a helping professional with many years experience working with many, many different people of all biopsychosocial backgrounds, I can never know another person's inner truth and experience. I can never make decisions for anyone. How can one speculate and have the ego to think they can read another person's mind; that they know what their life experiences have been like, or current situation is. How does one have the cajones to think they know best for another person? Are they the ones who have to live in that person's shoes? Do they have to live by the consequences of that decision for the rest of THEIR lives? No. We can listen, empathise, give examples from our life experiences and what we know from others and our education - but I am emphatically AGAINST telling anyone what they should do. I will provide information about the possible consequences of someone's taking or not taking a certain action - both the positives and the negatives. BUT, it is NOT my place to dictate or to tell another what to do. It is their life to live, afterall. That being said, when we see someone is in imminent danger of doing permanent harm to themselves or another, we can be more direct, more forceful. I still believe you really need to know the person you are talking to FIRST - their vulnerabilities, their strengths, what they are capable of. To say something willy nilly could be dangerous, not only for them, but for oneself. Educate yourself about the person and about what you are dealing with before you deign to give advice. And, always remember that someday, it is possible that your words may come back to bite you in the butt. I personally prefer to avoid that kind of risk, except when it is mandated by my profession. my post was never about giving advice. which i don't do. what i do is suggest ideas from a different perspective. |
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Edited by
angelindarkness
on
Sat 06/21/08 08:48 AM
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Please clarify what you mean by "suggest ideas". Thank you.
suggest |sə(g)ˈjest| verb [ reporting verb ] put forward for consideration : [with clause ] I suggest that we wait a day or two | [with direct speech ] “Maybe you ought to get an expert,” she suggested | [ trans. ] Ruth suggested a vacation. • [ trans. ] cause one to think that (something) exists or is the case : finds of lead coffins suggested a cemetery north of the river | [with clause ] the temperature wasn't as tropical as the bright sunlight may have suggested • state or express indirectly : [with clause ] are you suggesting that I should ignore her? | [ trans. ] the seduction scenes suggest his guilt and her loneliness. *** Again, here we are placing our own BIAS when we "suggest", unless we are stating something we know to be a PROVEN fact. |
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Maybe insensitive, the truth can be told without being mean, it takes a little finnese.
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Truth can ALWAYS be couched in kindness
 No reason to mow a person down .. |
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Please clarify what you mean by "suggest ideas". Thank you. when a person is within a situation in which he/she is not able to see things clearly. he/she cannot see things objectively. so when ideas are suggested from a different perspective. a person would just offering an objective point of view which the person within the "situation" cannot see. In this way this individual have other options from where he/she can choose. however, at the very end the person being suggested is the one who can choose his/her path, and nobody else. for me that is the difference between saying "you should do" (advicing) and suggesting a variety of different ideas from where the person can choose. |
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How do you KNOW for sure they cannot see clearly. What PROOF do you have - hypothetically speaking.
And, every one is subject to BIAS of one kind or another. Hardly anyone can be completely objective. There is always a motive of one kind or another, be it benign or otherwise; be it known to the "suggestor" or not known. To think so and state so is to be ignorant or to delude oneself. Please note that I am not referring to the OP here, merely speaking in the general. |
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in very simple words. in order to do such thing we have to talk about individual cases which is not the point if this thread.
the intention of this thread was never to discuss how to advice or not to advice an individual. I'm not a qualified individual, so i cannot argue with you about technicallities. however, what can i say is that truth is relative to the observer as Mr. Einstein suggested (obviously his work was applied in physics, but for me (at least) has applications in other life's issues. therefore, it follows that everyone has a part of the truth, and nobody owns the universal truth, thus there is always the risk of bias. |
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Thank you.
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...he or she just says the raw truth without editing or censoring? in other words is it ok to say the naked truth as it is regardless the fact that other person may feel offended or hurt by it? You won't make many friends for sure as the world is full of imperfect . |
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...he or she just says the raw truth without editing or censoring? in other words is it ok to say the naked truth as it is regardless the fact that other person may feel offended or hurt by it? You won't make many friends for sure as the world is full of imperfect . I don't have many friends actually. I have a lot of known people, but from there to call them friends it's a long way to go. |
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...he or she just says the raw truth without editing or censoring? in other words is it ok to say the naked truth as it is regardless the fact that other person may feel offended or hurt by it? I told someone last month that he was a f*** up, not to be insulting, but rather to let him know where he was. On a positive note, he hasn't touched a drop of alcohol or drugs in a month, which doesn't say too much, but it's progress. A real friend will tell you what time it is, if need be. |
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A real friend will tell you what time it is, if need be. You are right. And the key point being you were. A. Real. Friend. He trusts you and respects, knows you have his best intentions at heart. Most likely knows the reasons (amongst many others, I'm sure) you want him to make the healthiest choices for himself is because you do not want to lose him to death or misfortune and that he matters to you. Because he trusts you and respects you, he probably realizes that you know him and his life ENOUGH to know when he is in danger of messing up dangerously AND permanently. Bravo for you. |
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