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Topic: Is there really an everlasting sin?
tribo's photo
Sat 05/31/08 06:41 PM



tribo:

You really should read the definition that Feral Posted. It proves my point.

Religious doctrine has taken ownership of that word. I will you will not have much luck using it in your own way.

JB


No, it just proves a religious point, a definition within religious dogma, as i stated i will try to find the "missing the mark" meaning again as i have time, and dont hold your breath- it is certainly not on my short list of things to do.laugh


Well it does prove that religious doctrine has taken ownership of the idea of "sin."

They are even a little jealous when someone like Oprah or some other 'guru' comes along preaching love and compassion and spiritual enlightenment, but they don't own those ideas although they would like to.

They do take a dim view of anyone outside of religious doctrine using the term "sin" unless it related to their God.

JB


i'll grant you that it is normally used in context with religious belief's.

feralcatlady's photo
Sun 06/01/08 06:35 AM






"Sin" is religious doctrine and includes disobedience to god as being "sin." JB

Sin is a word period - in the greek it meant - to miss the mark - meaning as example - if you were shooting at a target and you did not hit the bullseye - you "missed the mark. A "mistake is no more or no less than the same meaning - you donot hit the bullseye - ooops!!



Of course it is a word. But it has its roots and meaning steeped in religious dogma. It is associated with disobedience and shame etc.

Words evolve in meaning to fit current understanding and use. What it used to mean in greek is a moot point. Where it came from is a moot point. We don't speak greek anymore.

I have found that what is a "sin" differs in accordance to the Church you are attending. One church I used to go to claimed that dancing was a sin. Unmarried sex is a sin. Blah Blah Blah. The word is ambiguous and to me, completely meaningless.

JB






ahh then we cannot continue JB - if the meaning of words cannot have any concept except for the meanings you believe then all communication is mute.



I don't know what you could say to me that would convince me that "sin" is not a word that is connected to religious dogma, judgment, god, etc.

People in general for the most part are steeped in religious dogma and have been since the dawn of time.

Words only represent ideas and things etc. Their meanings are interpreted. Anyone who speaks to me of "sin" is automatically speaking about judgment of what they consider to be morally right or wrong and are 99% apt to be speaking from a religious belief system of some kind.

If you want to use the word differently and understand it differently that is your choice. I have explained to you merely what it means to me. Now explain to me what it means to you.

JB






I have not ever heard of your version of this word. either in greek or latin to greek or latin to greek to english.

Sin

is "any want of conformity unto or transgression of the law of God" (1 John 3:4; Rom. 4:15), in the inward state and habit of the soul, as well as in the outward conduct of the life, whether by omission or commission (Rom. 6:12-17; 7:5-24). It is "not a mere violation of the law of our constitution, nor of the system of things, but an offence against a personal lawgiver and moral governor who vindicates his law with penalties. The soul that sins is always conscious that his sin is (1) intrinsically vile and polluting, and (2) that it justly deserves punishment, and calls down the righteous wrath of God. Hence sin carries with it two inalienable characters, (1) ill-desert, guilt (reatus); and (2) pollution (macula).", Hodge's Outlines. The moral character of a man's actions is determined by the moral state of his heart. The disposition to sin, or the habit of the soul that leads to the sinful act, is itself also sin (Rom. 6:12-17; Gal. 5:17; James 1:14, 15). The origin of sin is a mystery, and must for ever remain such to us. It is plain that for some reason God has permitted sin to enter this world, and that is all we know. His permitting it, however, in no way makes God the author of sin. Adam's sin (Gen. 3:1-6) consisted in his yielding to the assaults of temptation and eating the forbidden fruit. It involved in it, (1) the sin of unbelief, virtually making God a liar; and (2) the guilt of disobedience to a positive command. By this sin he became an apostate from God, a rebel in arms against his Creator. He lost the favour of God and communion with him; his whole nature became depraved, and he incurred the penalty involved in the covenant of works. Original sin. "Our first parents being the root of all mankind, the guilt of their sin was imputed, and the same death in sin and corrupted nature were conveyed to all their posterity, descending from them by ordinary generation." Adam was constituted by God the federal head and representative of all his posterity, as he was also their natural head, and therefore when he fell they fell with him (Rom. 5:12-21; 1 Cor. 15:22-45). His probation was their probation, and his fall their fall. Because of Adam's first sin all his posterity came into the world in a state of sin and condemnation, i.e., (1) a state of moral corruption, and (2) of guilt, as having judicially imputed to them the guilt of Adam's first sin. "Original sin" is frequently and properly used to denote only the moral corruption of their whole nature inherited by all men from Adam. This inherited moral corruption consists in, (1) the loss of original righteousness; and (2) the presence of a constant proneness to evil, which is the root and origin of all actual sin. It is called "sin" (Rom. 6:12, 14, 17; 7:5-17), the "flesh" (Gal. 5:17, 24), "lust" (James 1:14, 15), the "body of sin" (Rom. 6:6), "ignorance," "blindness of heart," "alienation from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18, 19). It influences and depraves the whole man, and its tendency is still downward to deeper and deeper corruption, there remaining no recuperative element in the soul. It is a total depravity, and it is also universally inherited by all the natural descendants of Adam (Rom. 3:10-23; 5:12-21; 8:7). Pelagians deny original sin, and regard man as by nature morally and spiritually well; semi-Pelagians regard him as morally sick; Augustinians, or, as they are also called, Calvinists, regard man as described above, spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1; 1 John 3:14). The doctrine of original sin is proved, (1.) From the fact of the universal sinfulness of men. "There is no man that sinneth not" (1 Kings 8:46; Isa. 53:6; Ps. 130:3; Rom. 3:19, 22, 23; Gal. 3:22).



you have me at a disadvantage F, it has not been since the 70's when i was involved in this so as i have time i will try my best to find the missing the mark definition i speak of ok?

ps: your post only states what the meaning of sin, sinner, etc., means in those religious dogma's held by religious sects. you donot define the word "sin" as to greek or other text of the time when it was written.Maybe you can find the answer quicker than i if you have a greek lexicon or two i used to have 4 but they are long gone.



If you guys want to look at sin is being off the mark....well your choice...again you can make it anything you want but what it is......it is. And if it is off the mark then I guess I will add mine to it....

sin: off the mark, not at one with God....hmmmmm ok sounds good.

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