Warmachine starts every thread as an opportunity, there is no such thing as hijacking one of my threads, as long as it leads to intelligent conversation and not a bunch of mouthing off/attack posts.

http://www.factcheck.org/article447.html

This ought to deal with the Soc. Sec. story.

However the welfare issue is more of a state by state thing, some are way more lenient than others.

yes i understand that thought process

and have used it many times

but like i said they know they are breaking the law and i also said repeat offenders

first timers maybe should get a little more compassion

but if they were deported already then i am not running to there defense

now if i am in the middle of it then it may be i would say something but as i am blind to the event i will not go looking for it


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http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/11051.html

Some other noncitizens who may be eligible for SSI payments are:

* Active duty members of the U.S. armed forces;
* Noncitizen members of federally recognized Indian tribes;
* Certain noncitizens admitted as Amerasian immigrants; and
* Cuban/Haitian entrants under the Refugee Education Assistance Act.

There are other noncitizens who may be eligible for payments. If you are a noncitizen and want to apply for SSI benefits, it is best to contact us to see if you are eligible.

----------------

does say in other parts illegals not eligible for food stamps

but false papers can change from illegal to legal illegally

to war machine
this is a very hot, and emotional issue,
illegals are here because corporate america wants them here,
and corporate government allows it,
I work on hi end homes and commecial buildings,
illegals now do, the drywall, framing, tile, roofing, painting, landscape, and more,
guess what? those use to be good paying trade jobs that were out-sourced in our own country by greedy developers and contractors!!!
i'm not mad at the illegals
this country is going to $hit and theres nothing your going to say in this forum thats going to stop it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by the way try going to there country illegally and getting a job!
what do you think would happen to you???????

You've got me all wrong, you'll not find a stronger advocate for getting our borders under control and giving those who would seek to cut in line and get freebies the boot.

My problem is when our Government feels they have the right to violate international law, nevermind basic human rights and treat people, any people, like cattle.

In fact, I personally think we are straight up under attack from the southern border, wanna know why?
--------------------------------------------------

Congressmen Highlight Mexican Commando Incursions Into U.S.
Urge action on U.S.-trained Mexican security personnel carrying out cartel killings

Two representatives have urged Congress to take action to address the worsening situation on the southern border which has been described by reporters and activist groups as "an all out war."

Rep. Ted Poe, R-Humble, has urged the Congress to take action regarding the frequent incursions of military style Mexican commandos into the U.S. that has seen over 6000 deaths in the past two and a half years according to conservative estimates.

The Houston-area Republican told the House Foreign Affairs Committee that members of Mexico's elite counter-narcotics teams, trained at Fort Benning, Ga., have defected and are now in the pay of drug cartels.

Poe highlighted the fact that the guerrilla-style commandos are regularly crossing the border into the U.S. and have been involved in violence and killings as far north as Dallas.

The San Francisco Chronicle has picked up the story:

He said the Department of Homeland Security had documented "over 250 incursions by suspected military forces" into the United States over the past decade.

"I was surprised to hear that the United States has trained Mexican forces and some of those have deserted and become the reason for these attacks," Poe said.

Congressman Poe criticized the lack of oversight on current programs to assist law enforcement in Mexico and central America:

"It seems as though the United States has a history in some cases of giving support (to Mexico) and that support turns around and is used against the very people we're trying to protect, in this case, us," Poe said. "We have no assurance that the equipment we're sending to Mexico won't be turned over to the drug cartels and used against us."

Another Congressman, Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Austin, called border drug violence "an imminent security threat right on our doorstep" and compared the urgency of situation to that of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In March, award winning National Security and Pentagon reporter for the Washington Times, Sara A. Carter, detailed the national media blackout on the Mexican incursions and the border war:

"There's a lot of people who don't realize how serious the situation is on the southern border." Ms. Carter told the Alex Jones show. "Even to the extent when sometimes some of our own government officials choose to ignore it, even though they know it's going on."

"It is a huge story. It is bigger than most of us even know, and people are afraid of covering the story. We hear reports but we don't see in depth detail." Carter said.

Aside from Carter herself it has been left entirely to the alternative media to expose the reality of the situation on the border.
-------------------------------------------------
To me, if we aren't protecting our ports and borders, then the war on terror and the drug war are just big jokes on the American people.

This issue is yet another reason why I'll be voting for Dr.Paul and not the fake McCain, while McCain is seeking to deliver amnsety, no other candidate for President has presented anything that would be as effective at ending Illegal immigration than the Doc's plan:


Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.


http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/border-security-and-immigration-reform/

Involuntary Drugging of Detainees

STEPHEN SOLDZ
Friday, May 16, 2008

In Soviet Russia, psychiatrists sometimes collaborated with the repressive regime by locking up dissidents in mental hospitals and injecting them with powerful psychotropic drugs, "antipsychotics" designed to treat schizophrenia. The Soviet psychiatrists were rightly condemned for their misuse of medicine for the un-therapeutic purpose of social control.

American health personnel are not immune from cooperating with efforts to misuse psychiatric drugs for social control purposes having no connection with those drugs' intended uses. The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency (ICE) has been systematically administering psychotropic drugs to immigrants in the process of being deported as the Washington Post reported this week. Deportees who in the past had resisted deportation were injected with drugs, often a three drug "cocktail," in order to keep them pliant during deportation. These drugs included the powerful antipsychotic drug Haldol, as well as the antianxiety drug Ativan, and Cogentin, a drug used to treat the often severe Parkinsons illness like side effects of Haldol.

These drugs were prescribed by psychiatrists and administered by specially selected nurse "medical escorts." The drugs were administered in extremely high doses, sometimes rendering the deportees unable to speak. It sometimes took deportees days or even weeks to get the drugs out of their system. Thus Michael Shango was injected with 32.5 milligrams (mg) of Haldol, as well as 8.5 mg of Ativan and some Cogentin over 11 hours. His initial Haldol dose was 10 mg. Compare this with a usual Haldol dose of 2 to 5 mg repeated in 4 to 6 hours for "control of the acutely agitated schizophrenic patient with moderately severe to very severe symptoms" and 2 to 6 mg of Ativan daily for patients whose bodies have already adapted to the medication; lower doses of these drugs are recommended for new patients as people need time to adjust to them.

These drugs, especially Haldol are extremely powerful and are almost never utilized in individuals not diagnosed as actively psychotic. They can be extremely uncomfortable, especially if first administered in high doses and can disorient an individual for days. When Shango was imprisoned upon his return to the Congo, he was so disoriented that he didn't know where he was fortunately, friends helped him escape. It was weeks before he fully recovered from the drugs.

This use of powerful medications to control detainees is likely illegal. In fact, the Clinton administration had concluded:

"Regarding detainees who are not mentally ill, involuntary medication of such persons for the sole purpose of subduing them during deportation, without a court order, is not supported by any legal authority and raises ethical issues as well."

Regardless of whether this use of drugs is legal, it violates the professional ethics of most health professions and constitutes a profound threat to the role of healer. Doctors, nurses, and other health professionals rely upon trust between healing professional and patient, trust that the interests of the patient are forefront in the doctors mind. We incorporate recognition of the importance of trust in the crucial importance given to patients' informed consent in medical decision-making. Except in the most extreme of circumstances, drugs and other medical interventions should be administered only with the consent of, and in the interests of, the person receiving the intervention.

The ethics of most medical professions do allow for involuntary intervention in extreme circumstances to protect the patient or public from imminent harm. Further, in order for a medical treatment to be used involuntarily, the treatment must be, as the Supreme Court stated in considering involuntary drugging of prisoners, "in the inmate’s medical interest." Thus, the American Psychiatric Nurses Association, in a position statement on Mandatory Outpatient Treatment (MOT), endorses mandatory treatment, but insists that it is a last resort:

All patients have the right to make their own decisions and MOT should be used as a last resort. … If MOT needs to be implemented, measures must be taken to ensure that each patient is treated with respect and dignity, and that full consideration is given to the patient's rights, civil liberties, and confidentiality issues.

The criterion of "use as a last resort" and treatment "with respect and dignity… and that full consideration is given to the patient's rights [and] civil liberties" is clearly not met in the ICE use of these powerful drugs. The psychiatrists and nurse escorts are serving only the interests of the ICE and are oblivious to the interests or the wishes of those receiving drugs, who, because they manifest no medical need, are not in any meaningful sense "patients." These drugs are being used to control the deportees as they attempt to assert their rights. These drugs thus are in fact often a way of destroying the deportees' ability to resist disturbing and often questionable deportations. What could be more disrespectful of a person's dignity than to chemically destroy his or her ability to resist?

The ICE has recently amended thepolicy that allowed involuntary drugging of deportees. Unfortunately, as Physicians for Human Rights pointed out in a January 28th 2008 letter to the ICE, the new rules are still inadequate and open to abuse:

The new policy, in fact, largely ratifies ICE’s past practice, allowing court-ordered forced sedation “to effectuate removal” when a detainee’s resistance is deemed “dangerous.” The Amended Policy also requires evidence from a medical doctor that the drug or drugs to be forcibly administered are “medically appropriate.”

While we welcome this recognition of medical concerns, the Amended Policy offers no criteria for the vague standard of “appropriateness,” providing far too little guidance and presenting far too great a risk that ICE’s sole interest in removal will subvert the physician’s obligation to the patient’s health.

The use of drugs by ICE is, unfortunately, part of a pattern by the Bush administration of the misuse of the health professions for non-therapeutic purposes. I and others have written extensively about the role of psychologists in aiding national security interrogations, interrogations that often cross the line into torture. Recently the Washington Post and CQ reported on likely involuntary drugging of detainees.

It is beginning to look as if there is a pattern of inappropriate use of psychopharmacological agents for overcoming resistances of various types.

So far Congress and the health professions have failed to systematically confront the abuses of these professions by the current administration. The failures, until recently, of Congress to stop or actively expose administration abuses are well known. While at times making strong statements against certain abuses, none of the health professions has taken active steps to investigate abuses or to expose or discipline members participating in abuses. All too often, good sounding words have been a substitute for action. Bioethicist Steven Miles, author of Oath Betrayed: Torture, Medical Complicity, and the War on Terror, said in response to these latest revelations:

Governments do not inject people with antipsychotics, medical personnel do.

In 35 years of practice, I have never had to give such high doses of antipsychotics to any person with any mental illness as is described in this story.

Again, we have an utter breakdown of the accountability of health professionals. As with the behavior of nurses and doctors in the war on terror prisons and the use of drugs for the CIA-State Department's rendition flights, we have a failure of understanding of professional ethics and complete passivity of the AMA and the American Nurses Association.

It is time for both Congress and the health professions themselves to investigate. Recently Senators Levin, Biden and Hagel wrote the Defense Department Inspector General requesting an investigation of the reports of involuntary detainee drugging. This new report of involuntary drugging may be investigated as well.

We need a mechanism, however, for a detailed examination of the perversions of the health professions by the current administration. I have previously called for a Truth and Reconciliation process to deal with the shameful cowardice of the health professions in actively and/or passively aiding the administrations' detention and interrogation abuses. Perhaps this process needs to be expanded to confront the broad range of health profession failures to actively oppose their professions' perversion by the forces of the state.

Stephen Soldz is a psychoanalyst, psychologist, public health researcher, and faculty member at the Boston Graduate School of Psychoanalysis. He maintains the Psychoanalysts for Peace and Justice web site and the Psyche, Science, and Society blog. He is a founder of the Coalition for an Ethical Psychology, one of the organizations leading the struggle to change American Psychological Association policy on participation in abusive interrogations.

That was a good read, informative. It's good to know that there is some resistance to this in the medical community.

i say dunk the pentagon


or blow it up.... oh sorry they tried that already...lmao...


well if at first you don't succeed???? lmao

Warmachine, contrary to what the nick suggests, advocates nonviolent resolutions.
The really bad, sick SOB's are only tens of thousands strong, while the rest of us are millions upon millions. They can't get us all, as long as we don't act like sheep following a Judas Goat.

the operative word here being sheep....last i looked the flock was all over the place....they be on the loose!!! lol

i started a thread way back in the day called weapons.....boy did that expose the idiots quickly....

learning to camouflage.....can be an asset....but i have decided not to throw pearls to swine...and just walk my walk...words are cheap and easy to cut and paste....

i instigated so much "attitude" that people were becoming polarized...this seems to be a phenomena of the internet...people get very charged up over storms in teacups...over react..take things out of context , too personally, you name it....


i found this to be counter productive, and i also didn't have time to 'expound' my ideas and sell them online to people that were too lame to get the point...


some people will just argue because they are locked into their belief system...(no blame)...but i don't want to dialogue with them!! in fact it's impossible to dialogue with them!


so i will plant my seeds where they have a chance to grow.... and indeed i do also throw seeds into the wind to land where they will and grow and thrive if they can...but as i get older i am more inclined to act with deliberation and am more invested in the long lasting tangible result...than the quick flash in the pan of solidarity for a concept/idea and no concrete work to make it happen.

I feel you! I've learned that, with proper technique, you can irrigate even the most inhospitable soil to be fruitful and those crops tend to be the most enjoyable in the long run.

Some people are very locked into their belief systems and that can be irritating, but all it takes is for the right topic, the right sentence or the right incident in their own lives to remove the "wool" from their eyes, those people tend to be the most grateful and the hardest fighters for liberty. Plus, I love my fellow citizen and I want everyone here to enjoy freedom and to be prosperous, but until we, as a people, reach that 100th Monkey ( thats a theory on social change, look it up!) we will continue to find evil people doing their best to manipulate the populous into accepting and even defending their evil... Not unlike this story about the treatment of deportees.

if i had 5 cents for every time i asked someone to look up the hundred monkey syndrome i would be a billionaire!!!...preachin to the choir beauty!!!


and well ...you can have the floor here and i'll do what i'm doin


we be irie...it's all good!

It's rare to run into anyone who has heard of the "100th monkey".

I'll keep spreadin' the word!