Topic: my point of view...
TheLonelyWalker's photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:06 AM

(note to Miguel: I appologize for chopping your post into bit-sized quotes. I did this solely for the sake of clarity in addressing each point directly, and for no other ulterior motive.) flowerforyou

how do you do it? I tried when I answered ur post and I miserable failed.

no photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:08 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Fri 05/09/08 09:08 AM
When worlds are destroyed new worlds will be available and are being be made.

All beings inhabiting bodies in these worlds being destroyed will be taken up and held safely until they can incarnate into new worlds.

Personalities are maintained although with simultaneous incarnates life memory is withheld from incarnates.

There is no death. The worst thing that can happen to a personality or soul is to be recycled. They loose their personality and all their memories and start over as a new being.

There is no death. There is no separation from God.

JB


Abracadabra's photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:12 AM


jeez, I don't know how to use the quotations
so frustrating


Scroll down to the bottom and type below them.flowerforyou

I have taken college science courses. I have a born-again Aunt.
She was concerned that I would get too involved with the sciences and become a non-believer.

When I was taking Anatomy and Physiology I and II, I learned how the body manufactures urine, etc. It is all so very complicated.

My faith became stronger. It is amazing how the body works. It is a true miracle. And it is no accident.

Somebody, God to me, designed us.


I'm in total agreement with you. I also believe in "Intelligent Design" and that implies a God.

I am not an atheist. I am a pantheist. To me, pantheism is not so much a religion but rather a world view that explains how God created the universe, and it describes the essence of our true nature and our place in the world.

So while I am in agreement with you that there is definitely a God, I still hold that the biblical picture of God is totally incredulous and highly unlikely to be true. flowerforyou

I’m not trying to sway your thoughts. I’m merely pointing out that what you’ve stated here does not support the biblical picture of God in the least. You are merely saying that there must be a God, and I am in total agreement with you on that point. flowerforyou

Chazster's photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:12 AM

...of yesterday and today's events in these forums.

1) Yesterday I saw a post which basically said that it's ok for people to have beliefs as long as these beliefs are not publicly expressed. Furthermore, if for any reason these beliefs are expressed people who express them must be ready to show with reason why those beliefs should be truth.

My answer:
First of all, and just from a simple basic natural law. If I'm being forced not to express my beliefs this just go against my basic right of self expression which is just wrong.
Second of all, if I'm an atheist and if I'm walking down the street and I pass by a church ofcourse I won't get in. The same applies in this forum. All of us know who is who. So if I'm an atheist and I see TLW who is crazy fanatic posting something ofcourse I'm not even going to read.
Third of all, how am I going to give a reasonable explanation with regard of my beliefs if certain nonbeliever does not have the open mind to read and respect my explanations rather he/she always is in a defensive mode trying to diminish every single reason I gave about what I believe.
Therefore, let's not claim innocense if inherently we are attacking other's beliefs (not just christianity.)

2) Today, a thread claiming that the debates held in this forum are not being held in an adult manner.

My answer:
It works both ways. Believers and nonbelievers are guilty in the same amount.
I don't say more about this because each one knows each one.

A final conclusion:
As long as the dialogue is just exchange of ideas why I think a belief system is correct or not I will debate.
However, I have stated too many times (and I won't get tired) whenever I see a derogatory or a ridicule agenda I will say something.

TLW


Again another good point. I thought spiders was good too, but it was apparent that people took it the wrong way. I think people had the impression he was attacking the atheist side and I think he meant both sides.

Both sides should express their opinions, have respect for each others believes, promote the sharing of ideas, and try and hold back any intolerant remarks.

TheLonelyWalker's photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:13 AM
Edited by TheLonelyWalker on Fri 05/09/08 09:14 AM


With all due respect to you Miguel I do not believe that I am making any mistake here whatsoever.


I apologize If I said you were in a mistake. Each one of us hold a truth and it must be valid and respected. What I tried to say is: "the point where we disagree."

I have been thinking about this for decades Miguel. To try to pin the blame on Satan and his followers for the imperfections of a world created by an all-perfect being is fully of logical contradictions and inconsistencies that are beyond reasonable.


I have not studied or thought too many years. However, in the few years I have been educating myself. I find the idea of free will in men and angels very logic. Cause and effect as i understand it. I make a decision which will have a consequence.


TheLonelyWalker's photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:14 AM
i keep failing. grumble grumble grumble grumble

no photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:14 AM
Upon physical death, you are free to return to your higher self and all your memories of all your lives on the lower space time worlds will be available for review.

All your personalities from all your lives will remain intact within the body of your higher self and information will be shared. One of your personalities will be the dominant one but all others will remain in tact within the body of you true being.

You will now ascend to other worlds for new adventures.

JB


no photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:18 AM

i keep failing. grumble grumble grumble grumble



{quote}

Make a quote sign only use the strait bracket not the one used here.

{/quote}

When you hit the quote button you will see how to do it. It gets confusing if you break it up, but start with just one or two. The slash / ends the quote.

JB

yzrabbit1's photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:19 AM


...of yesterday and today's events in these forums.

1) Yesterday I saw a post which basically said that it's ok for people to have beliefs as long as these beliefs are not publicly expressed. Furthermore, if for any reason these beliefs are expressed people who express them must be ready to show with reason why those beliefs should be truth.

My answer:
First of all, and just from a simple basic natural law. If I'm being forced not to express my beliefs this just go against my basic right of self expression which is just wrong.
Second of all, if I'm an atheist and if I'm walking down the street and I pass by a church ofcourse I won't get in. The same applies in this forum. All of us know who is who. So if I'm an atheist and I see TLW who is crazy fanatic posting something ofcourse I'm not even going to read.
Third of all, how am I going to give a reasonable explanation with regard of my beliefs if certain nonbeliever does not have the open mind to read and respect my explanations rather he/she always is in a defensive mode trying to diminish every single reason I gave about what I believe.
Therefore, let's not claim innocense if inherently we are attacking other's beliefs (not just christianity.)

2) Today, a thread claiming that the debates held in this forum are not being held in an adult manner.

My answer:
It works both ways. Believers and nonbelievers are guilty in the same amount.
I don't say more about this because each one knows each one.

A final conclusion:
As long as the dialogue is just exchange of ideas why I think a belief system is correct or not I will debate.
However, I have stated too many times (and I won't get tired) whenever I see a derogatory or a ridicule agenda I will say something.

TLW


Again another good point. I thought spiders was good too, but it was apparent that people took it the wrong way. I think people had the impression he was attacking the atheist side and I think he meant both sides.

Both sides should express their opinions, have respect for each others believes, promote the sharing of ideas, and try and hold back any intolerant remarks.


Your living in a dream world then Chaz cause he named names and they were all on one side. There was nothig equal about it.

no photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:24 AM

Upon physical death, you are free to return to your higher self and all your memories of all your lives on the lower space time worlds will be available for review.

All your personalities from all your lives will remain intact within the body of your higher self and information will be shared. One of your personalities will be the dominant one but all others will remain in tact within the body of you true being.

You will now ascend to other worlds for new adventures.

JB


I forgot to mention that you will not normally return to your higher self until the end of the game when you are ready to ascend to other worlds.

If you are still incarnating you will simply continue your incarnations. Although they can go from past to future in this time space world, from your perspective they are one after another. Every light being (higher self) has their own space-time reality.

Winx's photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:32 AM


(note to Miguel: I appologize for chopping your post into bit-sized quotes. I did this solely for the sake of clarity in addressing each point directly, and for no other ulterior motive.) flowerforyou

how do you do it? I tried when I answered ur post and I miserable failed.


I can't figure out how to take exerpts out of the posts either.

Winx's photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:33 AM
Edited by Winx on Fri 05/09/08 09:55 AM


any man that tells me god is not real i will believe if he can at least make one single blade of grass himself....until then i cannot believe that everything NOT man made was by happenstance



I can do you one better. My ancestors made your God.


YZRabbit, Your ancestors? I don't get it.




no photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:33 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Fri 05/09/08 09:39 AM
The earth experiences is viewed as a game by the light beings. Light beings are personalities who love to play games and explore.

There are many challenges in doing the earth game and only the boldest beings will do it because to incarnate as a human you have to loose the memory of yourself temporarily. That is why we humans seek answers so desperately.

Galaxy aliens don't loose their personal life memories with each incarnation, but they can only do one incarnation at a time in one time line. They evolve very slowly spiritually, but they retain memories and culture and technology. That is where humans learned many of these things. From the aliens who retained it and taught them.


Winx's photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:34 AM



jeez, I don't know how to use the quotations
so frustrating


Scroll down to the bottom and type below them.flowerforyou

I have taken college science courses. I have a born-again Aunt.
She was concerned that I would get too involved with the sciences and become a non-believer.

When I was taking Anatomy and Physiology I and II, I learned how the body manufactures urine, etc. It is all so very complicated.

My faith became stronger. It is amazing how the body works. It is a true miracle. And it is no accident.

Somebody, God to me, designed us.


I'm in total agreement with you. I also believe in "Intelligent Design" and that implies a God.

I am not an atheist. I am a pantheist. To me, pantheism is not so much a religion but rather a world view that explains how God created the universe, and it describes the essence of our true nature and our place in the world.

So while I am in agreement with you that there is definitely a God, I still hold that the biblical picture of God is totally incredulous and highly unlikely to be true. flowerforyou

I’m not trying to sway your thoughts. I’m merely pointing out that what you’ve stated here does not support the biblical picture of God in the least. You are merely saying that there must be a God, and I am in total agreement with you on that point. flowerforyou



I soo understand what you are saying.flowerforyou

no photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:38 AM
To argue the belief in God is silly and a waste of time. What you want to do is forget about that argument and worship life.

You have been put here to experience life, to learn and grow. If you don't believe in a God, it does not matter. You are alive! That is all you really know. You exist, and that alone is a great miracle!

Use this life the best you can and look around you. You can see and touch and feel and taste! You can choose what you will do with your time.

That is the most precious thing. The time and the life and how you spend it.

JB

yzrabbit1's photo
Fri 05/09/08 09:47 AM

To argue the belief in God is silly and a waste of time. What you want to do is forget about that argument and worship life.

You have been put here to experience life, to learn and grow. If you don't believe in a God, it does not matter. You are alive! That is all you really know. You exist, and that alone is a great miracle!

Use this life the best you can and look around you. You can see and touch and feel and taste! You can choose what you will do with your time.

That is the most precious thing. The time and the life and how you spend it.

JB



They will never comprehend a simple truth like that.

Abracadabra's photo
Fri 05/09/08 10:00 AM
Edited by Abracadabra on Fri 05/09/08 10:13 AM

To argue the belief in God is silly and a waste of time. What you want to do is forget about that argument and worship life.

You have been put here to experience life, to learn and grow. If you don't believe in a God, it does not matter. You are alive! That is all you really know. You exist, and that alone is a great miracle!

Use this life the best you can and look around you. You can see and touch and feel and taste! You can choose what you will do with your time.

That is the most precious thing. The time and the life and how you spend it.

JB


I fully understand what you are saying here Jeannie. But at the same time, I think individuals have differnet emotional and cerebral needs.

Some people simply must believe that there is a God. For them the idea that there is no God is a very cold and empty feeling. In fact, I believe that I am one of these people. I can’t accept that everything just came into being happenstance. There is far too much order in things for that to have been the case.

However, I’m not the least bit interested in engaging in that particular philosophical argument. It cannot be resolved and truly is a matter of personal choice.

What I have found to be true for me, is that the pantheistic view of life can be either atheistic or theistic. It fits both ideologies. It isn’t ‘proof’ of God. For that one must still have faith. However, it is in perfect alignment with a belief in a God, if one chooses to view it in this way. It actually reveals how God created the universe. It doesn’t solve the problem of where God came from in the first place. But it explains how God created the universe and why the universe is the way that it is.

However, even without having faith in an “Intelligent Creator” I think pantheism is still a very useful concept for atheists as well. I think it will help them to understand the world better too and why it is the way it is. Although, it seems to me that the more they understand the pantheistic picture the more they will be convinced that God does indeed exist. But not at all in the way that the biblical stories would have us believe.

The true nature of God is so far superior to that picture that it genuinely brings tears of awe and joy to one’s eyes. :cry:

I wish everyone could at least truly understand the pantheist picture. It seems to me that once they truly understand it they would not be able to deny it’s beauty and perfection, and they would genuinely appreciate the true wisdom of a truly all-wise God.

A God they would bow down to and worship, not out of fear, or because the God is demanding to be worshipped, but simply because they are in total awe of God’s utter perfection and magnificence. flowerforyou

Chazster's photo
Fri 05/09/08 10:06 AM



...of yesterday and today's events in these forums.

1) Yesterday I saw a post which basically said that it's ok for people to have beliefs as long as these beliefs are not publicly expressed. Furthermore, if for any reason these beliefs are expressed people who express them must be ready to show with reason why those beliefs should be truth.

My answer:
First of all, and just from a simple basic natural law. If I'm being forced not to express my beliefs this just go against my basic right of self expression which is just wrong.
Second of all, if I'm an atheist and if I'm walking down the street and I pass by a church ofcourse I won't get in. The same applies in this forum. All of us know who is who. So if I'm an atheist and I see TLW who is crazy fanatic posting something ofcourse I'm not even going to read.
Third of all, how am I going to give a reasonable explanation with regard of my beliefs if certain nonbeliever does not have the open mind to read and respect my explanations rather he/she always is in a defensive mode trying to diminish every single reason I gave about what I believe.
Therefore, let's not claim innocense if inherently we are attacking other's beliefs (not just christianity.)

2) Today, a thread claiming that the debates held in this forum are not being held in an adult manner.

My answer:
It works both ways. Believers and nonbelievers are guilty in the same amount.
I don't say more about this because each one knows each one.

A final conclusion:
As long as the dialogue is just exchange of ideas why I think a belief system is correct or not I will debate.
However, I have stated too many times (and I won't get tired) whenever I see a derogatory or a ridicule agenda I will say something.

TLW


Again another good point. I thought spiders was good too, but it was apparent that people took it the wrong way. I think people had the impression he was attacking the atheist side and I think he meant both sides.

Both sides should express their opinions, have respect for each others believes, promote the sharing of ideas, and try and hold back any intolerant remarks.


Your living in a dream world then Chaz cause he named names and they were all on one side. There was nothig equal about it.

He named names, yes. He however, didn't state that those were the only people involved. If you want to assume that you know everything thats going through another persons mind that is fine. I don't like to pretend I know what others are thinking so I give them the benefit of the doubt.

yzrabbit1's photo
Fri 05/09/08 10:10 AM




...of yesterday and today's events in these forums.

1) Yesterday I saw a post which basically said that it's ok for people to have beliefs as long as these beliefs are not publicly expressed. Furthermore, if for any reason these beliefs are expressed people who express them must be ready to show with reason why those beliefs should be truth.

My answer:
First of all, and just from a simple basic natural law. If I'm being forced not to express my beliefs this just go against my basic right of self expression which is just wrong.
Second of all, if I'm an atheist and if I'm walking down the street and I pass by a church ofcourse I won't get in. The same applies in this forum. All of us know who is who. So if I'm an atheist and I see TLW who is crazy fanatic posting something ofcourse I'm not even going to read.
Third of all, how am I going to give a reasonable explanation with regard of my beliefs if certain nonbeliever does not have the open mind to read and respect my explanations rather he/she always is in a defensive mode trying to diminish every single reason I gave about what I believe.
Therefore, let's not claim innocense if inherently we are attacking other's beliefs (not just christianity.)

2) Today, a thread claiming that the debates held in this forum are not being held in an adult manner.

My answer:
It works both ways. Believers and nonbelievers are guilty in the same amount.
I don't say more about this because each one knows each one.

A final conclusion:
As long as the dialogue is just exchange of ideas why I think a belief system is correct or not I will debate.
However, I have stated too many times (and I won't get tired) whenever I see a derogatory or a ridicule agenda I will say something.

TLW


Again another good point. I thought spiders was good too, but it was apparent that people took it the wrong way. I think people had the impression he was attacking the atheist side and I think he meant both sides.

Both sides should express their opinions, have respect for each others believes, promote the sharing of ideas, and try and hold back any intolerant remarks.


Your living in a dream world then Chaz cause he named names and they were all on one side. There was nothig equal about it.

He named names, yes. He however, didn't state that those were the only people involved. If you want to assume that you know everything thats going through another persons mind that is fine. I don't like to pretend I know what others are thinking so I give them the benefit of the doubt.


I didn't have to pretend. He wrote it out.

Abracadabra's photo
Fri 05/09/08 10:12 AM

They will never comprehend a simple truth like that.


A lot of people need God Reverend Rabbit.

They need to know that there is something more than just what they see around them.

They seek to know that they are something more than just a bag of atoms that came together by pure happenstance.

And if they have a creator, then want to worship it, not because it is demanding that they do so, but to simply honor it and show it that they truly appreciate what it has created for them.

To ask people who need to know their creator to become total atheists is like trying to ask someone who is a great romantic and has a deep-seated need to love and interact with others to spend their entire life in solitary confinement.

Some people need to know God. And that’s admirable.

It doesn’t need to come down to a decision of whether or not to be an theist or atheist.

The real question is,… Can those who need to be theists genuinely come to know God? And do ancient pictures of gods have any validity? Or are they are all grossly mistaken? And if they are, then what is the true nature of God?

I have pondered all of these questions in great depth, and I have found my answer in pantheism. I would love to share this picture with the world. But it’s quite difficult in light of the vehement resistance of those who would perpetuation ancient mythologies at all cost. Sad really. frown