its about choice not that he could smit us at a seconds notice he wants us to love him not to be affraid of him .
we are his children and we need to learn these lessons here .. to complete his plan ... if we never knew evil we would never appreciate good ... would you know wet with out water ?
had to add my two since ... you have great questions , find a good church you might just find some answers , and no I dont believe you need to attend everyday ... but when you need an answer its a great place to start ...

But that still presumes that the only reason God is in charge is because he’s ultimately in control of the bigger ‘army’ or forces. It still implies that God’s power rests in the numbers of his loyal servants.

Just like earthy Kings. The only thing that gives them power is their authority and the only thing that gives them authority is the fact that they have loyal servants who will defend their kingdom for them.

This basically implies that if Satan could have gotten 51% of the angels to follow him instead of only 33% he might have actually succeeded in overthrowing Gods position of authority.

To me this whole ideal is like Greek Mythology.

I don't believe that the creator of this universe could be ‘overthrown’ by a lesser entity that it created. That’s my whole point. Its power doesn’t stem from its authority. Its power stems from the simple fact that it is the magician and no one else has access to its magical powers without its permission.

To claim that a fallen angel could think he could overthrow God, would be to claim that he believes that he could somehow gain control of God’s magical abilities, and strip them from God to take control of them for himself.

To me, this is just beyond absurd.

So all the talk about armies and spiritual wars is totally beyond my conception of God.

In the Pantheistic view of God no one would even begin to imagine overthrowing God.

But then the Pantheistic view of God isn’t based on authoritarian power. God is just all-powerful because that’s the innate essence of what God is. It’s not something that can be fought over or conquered by some lesser being. The idea of an angel (or anyone else) challenging the power of God in Pantheism is simply a nonsensical idea.

Why else would Satan come to believe he could overthrow his creator? Yahweh says the master is not greater than the servant. Anything he expects he does himself. Yahshua said if you had the faith of a mustard seed you could say to this mountain move over here and it would. Spiritual powers. Why couldn't Satan knowing this about Yahweh believe if he believes it hard enough that he can over power him. Many battles are won not by numbers but by believing you are going to win and putting everything into it not doubting and you then have fullfilled your own prophecy of winning.Have 10 people come into a office for a management job interview who are you going hire with all experience the same? The one who comes with zeal knowing believing that nothing is impossible. So myself I can see satan as being an Arch Angel as Michael and Gabrael are that his position of authority in the Heavens it is just one more stepping stone for him to reach the top. Like the corporate world step on all you can without a heart and his goal is reached but very lonely. Blessings...Miles

Actually what you are suggesting here supports Jeanniebean’s idea that we create the world through our thoughts. And that we can achieve great things by simply thinking about them intently enough.

I’ve argued that this is what Jesus meant by the moving of the mountain too. I argue that he’s suggesting that we have the power of psychokinesis is we simply believe that we can do it.

Most Christian theologians I’ve talked with laugh at that notion. They claim that Jesus was using that as a metaphor meaning that we can achieve great things in life (and not literally move mountains). Even though the biblical text sure makes it sound like he’s speaking literally.

In fact, I’ve even argued that the same thing is mentioned in the Old Testament at the tower of Babel when God said, “The people is one, and now nothing will be restrained from them that they imagine to do”

To me this is pretty clear evidence that the bible implies that we create our own reality via our imagination. That’s psychokinesis (mind over matter). And it even makes sense in today’s physics where we have recognized that matter and energy are indeed the same stuff.

Anyway, even if that’s true,… I can’t see that being used to ‘overthrow’ God. Mainly because it seems that to be able to use this power of psychokinesis requires what we would refer to as ‘good feelings’.

In other words, the vibrations required to achieve psychokinesis requires good ‘vibrations’ and therefore it cannot be used for what we would think of as ‘bad’ things because it simple won’t work with those ‘vibrations’.

That’s the way God designed it to be. Like a built-in fail-safe mechanism. So that it can’t be used for what we would call ‘evil’ purposes.

The other thing too that I find interesting (I might have to go do some serious Bible Reading for this one). Why would God be upset that the people were trying to build a tower to heaven? Seems to me that if they were trying to get to God that would be a good thing right? Doesn’t God want people to try to seek him out?

I’ll have to go and read the story again, I don’t remember what the details were, or why they were trying to build the tower. That might make for an interesting read. I always enjoy reading these stories even if I do view them as mythology.

It can still be an entertaining read.

Thats true. I do believe anything is possible if we truely believe without doubt. As for Satan well he is pridefull and can not accept the fact that he can not over throw Yahweh many people in the world in our own families have this same problem for self estine as we are so programmed to believe these days. A me me me world. Success now is your wealth or your attempt to fool your nieghbor to be in the right social group. We are seeing what is happening with that now.Abel when killed by his brother cain over who's sacrafice was better still goes on. It says the earth cry's out over Rightous Abels Blood. We have control completely of our destiny. But will we accept it and not always believe the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Yea the Tower of babel with Nimrod is very interesting. But they were also getting supernatural help in thier knowledge increase. This was not from Yahweh.I will leave you with that as I know you know over time I have said what i know to be true. Blessings Abra...Miles

You will know him by his deeds.

JB

Oh yeh, Lucy Lawless, Xena the warrior Princess!! She kicks a$$!

well yea if she kicks a$$. then shes got the bucks to do it Blessings..Miles

Actually, in the pantheistic, many people view the ego as ‘Satan’. In other words, they believe that the biblical ‘Satan’ is actually just a metaphor for the ego of men. They don’t view it as an actual evil ‘deity’ in it’s own right.

I think in that metaphor I can easily believe in ‘Satan’. But this is not the typical interpretation that Christians get from the Bible. In fact, as the Bible progresses this Satan fellow becomes more and more of an independent entity in his own right.

The idea of ‘Satan’ as being nothing more than a metaphor for man’s ego, actually fits right in with the pantheistic view. However, in that context, once again, it’s absurd to think of Satan as an entity that’s trying to overthrow God. Egotistical men may think they are God, but they probably aren’t thinking in terms of overthrowing God. On the contrary they are probably atheists, or at best superficial followers of a religion (perhaps even Christianity), but even then they probably aren’t thinking in terms of overthrowing God. Instead they are probably actually using a belief in God to support their own egotistical views.

I would be the first to accept the bible as having a lot of legitimacy in certain interpretations of it.

However, if Satan is taken as a metaphor for the ego, that kind of diminished the need for a ‘Savior’. Because the ego of man is just an illusion. It’s not real. It’s just an attitude. The idea in pantheism is that once the physical world is over and the ‘soul’ returns to the ‘spirit’ world the individual wakes up and realizes his folly. It was all just a dream, and he thought he was getting away with something. The joke’s on him!!!

I think there are a lot of parallels, between some things in the Bible and the Pantheistic view, yet at the same time there are a lot of things that just aren’t compatible at all. Like Satan being an actual evil deity (or fallen angel).

If ‘Satan’ is taken as a metaphor for the ego, then we all have a bit of ‘Satan’ within us. It’s inherent to the human condition to be egotistical to at least some degree. That’s just innate in our very nature of being individual creatures. We try to embrace the world as one, but snakes still bite, bees still sting, and demented murders still threaten to rape and kill us and our loved ones. It’s the very nature of the physical condition that forces us to become egotistical at least to some level, even if only to protect our loved one.

But, then the other extreme, is to become the demented murderer who actually thrives on hurting and killing other human beings because it somehow makes him feel powerful to be able to take a life.

But there is no power in taking a life. The only power is in saving a live. Just goes to show how the ego can confuse the minds of men. In that sense it is indeed ‘evil’.

Oh, by the way, I just went to read about the tower of Babel. There isn't much to the story. It doesn't actually explain why the people were building the tower, nor does it actually suggest that God was angry about it, he merely broke it up because he didn't want them to do that I guess. That was a bit of a disppointment. Here I thought I was going to get into reading a good bedtime story.

No man knows when the end time is...

Guess all you like, research the Bible in four different places and you'll get four different answers...

Believe whichever one you like best...

"The Sinful One"

aw but if Yahweh is the same yesterday today and tommorrow. those who let the spirit guide them and do away with the traditions of men will know when it is close. They will even know days before it happens..Blessings..Miles

http://www.stempublishing.com/authors/fereday/ANTICHRS.html

is a site i found that describes scripture of the anti-christ

Abra.. I think we both believe alot closer than we have thought. The ones I practice what I belief with are just set aside as ones who are mixed up. But i am glad that i have seen us in some of the cult books and we given marks of being non violent and not to worry about which is true and I am glad these books recongize this..Shalom...Miles

I seen that movie. Do you believe in that ?

mirror...that there will be an anti-christ??? yes...psst that link isn't a movie lol

So when the man of sin is refered to as the lawless one. What does this mean to you. Shalom..Miles

YellowRose,...

Did you send those latest lyrics to Reverend Rabbit?

I meant I seen the movie about Sinman. He's kinda like Superman but evil

Does a person have to believe in "The Devil" to believe in "God" ?