I love the writings of ~ Chief Seattle ~


~ the letter he wrote to President Pierce

called ~


" Where is the Eagle Gone " ~

Chief Seattle was the Native American

for whom Seattle, Washington is named.

Here is his most famous speech,
truly a masterpiece of art with words.

How Can You Buy or Sell the Sky?

How can you buy or sell the sky, the warmth of the land?
That idea is strange to us.
If we do not own the freshness of the air
and the sparkle of the water,
how can you buy them?

Every part of this earth is sacred to my people.
Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore,
every mist in the dark woods, every
clearing and humming insect is holy
in the memory and experience of my people.
The sap which courses through the trees
carries the memory of the red man.

The white man's dead forget the country of their birth
when they go to walk among the stars.

Our dead never forget this beautiful earth,
for it is the mother of the red man.
We are part of the earth and it is part of us.

The perfumed flowers are our sisters,
the deer, the horse, the great eagle,
these are our brothers.

The rocky crests,
the juices in the meadows,
the body heat of the pony, and man
- all belong to the same family.

So, when the Great Chief in Washington
sends word that he wishes to buy our land,
he asks much of us.
The Great Chief sends word he will reserve us a place
so that we can live comfortably to ourselves.
He will be our father and we will be his children.

So we will consider your offer to buy our land.

But it will not be easy.
For this land is sacred to us.
This shining water that moves in the streams and rivers
is not just water but the blood of our ancestors.

If we sell you land,
you must remember that it is sacred,
and you must teach your children that it is sacred
and that the ghostly reflection in the clear water
of the lakes tells us events
and memories in the life of my people.

The water's murmur is the voice of my father's father.
The rivers are our brothers,
they quench our thirst.
The rivers carry our canoes, feed our children.

If we sell our land, you must learn,
and teach your children, that the rivers are our brothers,
and yours, and you must henceforth
give the rivers the kindness you would give any brother.

We know that the white man
does not understand our ways.

One portion of the land is the
same to him as the next, for he is a stranger
who comes in the night and takes from the land
whatever he needs.
The earth is not his brother, but his enemy,
and when he has conquered it, he moves on.

He leaves his father's grave behind,
and he does not care.
He kidnaps the earth from his children,
and he does not care.
His father's grave
and his children's birthright are forgotten.

He treats his mother, the earth, and his brother,
the sky, as things to be bought, plundered, sold
like sheep or bright beads.
His appetite will devour the earth
and leave behind only a desert.

I do not know.
Our ways are different than yours.

The sight of your cities
pains the eyes of the red man.
But perhaps because the red man is a savage
and does not understand.

There is no quiet place in the white man's cities.
No place to hear the unfurling leaves in spring,
or the rustle of an insect's wings.

But perhaps it is because I am a savage
and do not understand.

The clatter only seems to insult the ears.

And what is there to life
if man cannot hear the lonely cry of the whippoorwill
or the arguments of the frogs around a pond at night?

I am red man and do not understand.

The Indian prefers the soft sound of
the wind darting over the face of a pond,

and the smell of the wind itself,
cleaned by a mid-day rain, or scented by the pinon pine.
The air is precious to the red man,
for all things share the same breath
- the beast, the tree, the man,
they all share the same breath.

The white man does not seem to notice
the air he breathes.
Like a man dying for many days is numb to the stench.
But if we sell you our land,
you must remember that the air is precious to us,
that the air shares its spirit
with all the life it supports.

The wind that gave our grandfather
his first breath also receives his last sigh.
And if we sell you our land,
you must keep it apart and sacred,
as a place where even the white man can go
to taste the wind that is sweetened by the meadow's flowers.

So we will consider your offer to buy our land.
If we decide to accept,
I'll make one condition,
the white man must treat the beasts of this
land as his brothers.
I am a savage and I do not understand any other way.

I have seen a thousand rotting buffalos on the prairie,
left by the white man who shot them from a passing train.
I am a savage and I do not understand
how the smoking iron horse can be more important
than the buffalo that we kill only to stay alive.

What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
man would die from a great loneliness of spirit.
For whatever happens to the beasts,
soon happens to man.
All things are connected.

You must teach the children that the ground
beneath their feet is the ashes of your grandfathers.
So that they will respect the land,
tell your children that the earth is rich
with the lives of our kin.
Teach your children what we have taught our children,
that the earth is our mother.

Whatever befalls the earth, befalls the sons of the earth.

If men spit upon the ground, they spit upon themselves.

This we know, the earth does not belong to man,

man belongs to the earth. This we know.

All things are connected like the
blood which unites one family.
All things are connected.
Whatever befalls the earth,
befalls the sons of the earth.
Man did not weave the web of life,
he is merely a strand in it.
Whatever he does to the web,
he does to himself.

Even the white man, whose God walks
and talks with him as friend to friend,
cannot be exempt from the common destiny.

We may be brothers after all.
We shall see. One thing we know,
which the white man may discover one
day - our God is the same God.

You may think you know that you own
Him as you wish to own our land,
but you cannot. He is the God of man,
and His compassion is equal
for the red man and the white.
This earth is precious to him,
and to harm the earth
is to heap contempt on its Creator.

The whites too shall pass, perhaps
sooner than all other tribes.
Contaminate your bed,
and you will one night suffocate in your own waste.
But in your perishing you will shine brightly,
fired by the strength of the God
who brought you to this land
and for some special purpose
gave you dominion over this land
and over the red man.

That destiny is a mystery to us,
for we do not understand
when the buffalo are all slaughtered,
the wild horses are tamed,
the secret corners of the forest
heavy with the scent of many men,
and the view of the ripe hills
blotted by talking wires.

Where is the thicket? Gone.
Where is the eagle? Gone.
The end of living
and beginning of survival. --

Chief Sealth (Seattle)

they were a warlike, backwards culture. Sorry to tell you but had they just put their differences aside, and fought together they would have driven the white man back into the ocean.




....
Ironically when Lieutenant Custer disobeyed his orders
And attacked instead of favoring peace
And sealed the fate of the Indian race
He made "The Little Big Horn" his last disaster
Outnumbered by the combined Indian Nation
Bent on revenge for the many Indian deaths
And protecting the tens of thousands in their camp
Two Thousand plus warriors came from every side
There was no stopping Crazy Horse and Chief Hunkapa
Leading the Cheyenne, plus Sans Arcs, Miniconjoux
Oglala Sioux, Blackfeet and the Sioux,
It took twenty minutes to annihilate "Yellow Hairs" Cavalry....

Albert Gazeley



Tecumseh - Shawnee 1927
"The white people who are trying to make us over into their image, they want us to be what they call assimilated, bringing the Indians into the mainstream and destroying our own way of life and our own cultural patterns. They believe we should be contented like those whose concept of happiness is materialistic and greedy, which is very different from our way.We want freedom from the white man rather than to be integrated. We don't want any part of the establishment, we want to be free to raise our children in our religion, in our ways, to be able to hunt and fish and to live in peace. We don't want power, we don't want to be congressmen, bankers, we want to be ourselves. We want to have our heritage, because we are the owners of this land and because we belong here.The white man says there is freedom and justice for all. We have had "freedom and justice," and that is why we have been almost exterminated. We shall not forget this."

...We were told, if any white people mean to harm you, hold up these flags and you will then be safe from all danger. We did this in good faith. But what happened? Our beloved chief Moluntha stood with the American flag in front of him and that very peace treaty in his hand, but his head was chopped by a American officer, and that American officer was never punished...

...here is how the Americans have treated us well: They have killed many Shawnee, many Winnebagoes, many Miamis, many Delawares, and have taken land from them. When they killed them, no American ever was punished, not one.It is you, the Americans, by such bad deeds, who push the red men to do mischief. You do not want unity among the tribes, and you destroy it. You try to make differences between them. We, their leaders, wish them to unite and consider their land the common property of all, but you try to keep them from this. You separate the tribes and deal with them that way, one by one, and advise them not to come into this union. Your states have set an example of forming a union among all the Fires, why should you censure the Indians for following that example?








One Apache chief made the following statements

"Yigaquu osaniyu adanvto adadoligi
nigohilvi nasquv utloyasdi nihi"
"May the Great Spirit always give you blessings"

"Ho! Mitakuye Oyasin"
"We Are All Related -our Earthly meeting is surly fated"

"Under the sky - all living things are one"

"God meant us all to be the same" -

"There is one God looking down on all"

The Apache Chief ?
Geronimo

Kill ANY mans wife, then child and see if he doesn't go "wild"






The Onondaga -Iroquois- councel opening (part of the Iroquois constitution) which was posted on our family wall for as long as my great great grandfather could remember, in part reads;
...open each council by greeting their cousin lords, and expressing their gratitude to them. And they shall offer thanks to the earth where all people dwell - To the streams of water, the pools, the springs, and the lakes; to the maize and the fruits - To the medicinal herbs and the trees, to the forest trees for their usefulness, to the animals that serve as food and who offer their pelts as clothing - To the great winds and the lesser wind; to the Thunderers; and the sun, the mighty warrior; to the moon - To the messengers of the Great Spirit who dwells in the skies above, who gives all thing useful to men, who is the source and the ruler of health and life. Then shall the Onondaga lords declare the council open.

That was just to open the council.






Try to do something for your people - something difficult. Have pity on your people and love them. If a man is poor, help him. Give him and his family food, give them whatever they ask for. If there is discord among your people, intercede.Take your sacred pipe and walk into their midst. Die if necessary in your attempt to bring about reconciliation. Then, when order has been restored and they see you lying dead on the ground, still holding in you hand the sacred pipe, the symbol of peace and reconciliation, then assuredly will they know that you have been a real chief.

Winnebago lesson





"Wakan Tankan Nici Un" in Cherokee
Means - May the Great Spirit walk with thee



Yup sounds like "backwards culture" to me

thank you so very much



I applaud you for your interest here


and for...


sticking up for what is righteous & just

I was so busy at first, I overlooked this part...


Sorry, Queene...


Here is to Geronima Hawks

they were a warlike, backwards culture. Sorry to tell you but had they just put their differences aside, and fought together they would have driven the white man back into the ocean.




....
Ironically when Lieutenant Custer disobeyed his orders
And attacked instead of favoring peace
And sealed the fate of the Indian race
He made "The Little Big Horn" his last disaster
Outnumbered by the combined Indian Nation
Bent on revenge for the many Indian deaths
And protecting the tens of thousands in their camp
Two Thousand plus warriors came from every side
There was no stopping Crazy Horse and Chief Hunkapa
Leading the Cheyenne, plus Sans Arcs, Miniconjoux
Oglala Sioux, Blackfeet and the Sioux,
It took twenty minutes to annihilate "Yellow Hairs" Cavalry....

Albert Gazeley



Tecumseh - Shawnee 1927
"The white people who are trying to make us over into their image, they want us to be what they call assimilated, bringing the Indians into the mainstream and destroying our own way of life and our own cultural patterns. They believe we should be contented like those whose concept of happiness is materialistic and greedy, which is very different from our way.We want freedom from the white man rather than to be integrated. We don't want any part of the establishment, we want to be free to raise our children in our religion, in our ways, to be able to hunt and fish and to live in peace. We don't want power, we don't want to be congressmen, bankers, we want to be ourselves. We want to have our heritage, because we are the owners of this land and because we belong here.The white man says there is freedom and justice for all. We have had "freedom and justice," and that is why we have been almost exterminated. We shall not forget this."

...We were told, if any white people mean to harm you, hold up these flags and you will then be safe from all danger. We did this in good faith. But what happened? Our beloved chief Moluntha stood with the American flag in front of him and that very peace treaty in his hand, but his head was chopped by a American officer, and that American officer was never punished...

...here is how the Americans have treated us well: They have killed many Shawnee, many Winnebagoes, many Miamis, many Delawares, and have taken land from them. When they killed them, no American ever was punished, not one.It is you, the Americans, by such bad deeds, who push the red men to do mischief. You do not want unity among the tribes, and you destroy it. You try to make differences between them. We, their leaders, wish them to unite and consider their land the common property of all, but you try to keep them from this. You separate the tribes and deal with them that way, one by one, and advise them not to come into this union. Your states have set an example of forming a union among all the Fires, why should you censure the Indians for following that example?








One Apache chief made the following statements

"Yigaquu osaniyu adanvto adadoligi
nigohilvi nasquv utloyasdi nihi"
"May the Great Spirit always give you blessings"

"Ho! Mitakuye Oyasin"
"We Are All Related -our Earthly meeting is surly fated"

"Under the sky - all living things are one"

"God meant us all to be the same" -

"There is one God looking down on all"

The Apache Chief ?
Geronimo

Kill ANY mans wife, then child and see if he doesn't go "wild"






The Onondaga -Iroquois- councel opening (part of the Iroquois constitution) which was posted on our family wall for as long as my great great grandfather could remember, in part reads;
...open each council by greeting their cousin lords, and expressing their gratitude to them. And they shall offer thanks to the earth where all people dwell - To the streams of water, the pools, the springs, and the lakes; to the maize and the fruits - To the medicinal herbs and the trees, to the forest trees for their usefulness, to the animals that serve as food and who offer their pelts as clothing - To the great winds and the lesser wind; to the Thunderers; and the sun, the mighty warrior; to the moon - To the messengers of the Great Spirit who dwells in the skies above, who gives all thing useful to men, who is the source and the ruler of health and life. Then shall the Onondaga lords declare the council open.

That was just to open the council.






Try to do something for your people - something difficult. Have pity on your people and love them. If a man is poor, help him. Give him and his family food, give them whatever they ask for. If there is discord among your people, intercede.Take your sacred pipe and walk into their midst. Die if necessary in your attempt to bring about reconciliation. Then, when order has been restored and they see you lying dead on the ground, still holding in you hand the sacred pipe, the symbol of peace and reconciliation, then assuredly will they know that you have been a real chief.

Winnebago lesson





"Wakan Tankan Nici Un" in Cherokee
Means - May the Great Spirit walk with thee



Yup sounds like "backwards culture" to me



I am getting ready to go to bed. I am too tred to debate this now. i will however come back tomorrow and blow this thread up. I stayed out out of respect, but you want to try to make me eat your words, I will make you eat your own tomorrow. Sleep well.

http://www.ohiou.edu/~glass/vol/1/14.htm
Let us start with the Iroquois
Sounds pretty peaceful, and cosmopolitan to me

Now on to the comanche
http://www.odessahistory.com/comanche.htm

both of those are from reputable websites, and describe in pretty good detail the peaceful nature of those tribes. This is not to say that some were not more cultured than others, but they were a diverse people living in their own societies. You can google every american indian tribe and come up with similar results as I did for these two. Please do not make this culture out to be one of only peace, and simply protecting it's race from the white man. they warred aganst each other as much as the settlers, and that was their downfall. I will post link after link if that is what you would like me to do? Good can be found in all cultures.

try this link and read on all the tribes yourself.
http://www.42explore2.com/native4.htm

rapunzel,

very nice thread
some good reading here

thank you

Hi folks,

Just a reminder to please debate these topics in a civil manner. This is one of the better threads on the board, please discuss peacefully.

Thanks,
Mark

You are right Mark. I am sorry Rupenzul

Dear KC0003...you are very very welcome


Thank you for your compliments


and for stopping by !

I forgive you Rob

but i am upset that it took Mark to come in here

to mediate, before your acknowledgment of this..

This is one of the most beautiful writings i have ever read



I was told that a Native American Elder,
who was inviting another
to stand with him together in life,
wrote this.

It doesn't interest me what you do for a living.
I want to know what you ache for,
and if you dare to dream of your heart's longing.

It doesn't interest me how old you are.
I want to know if you will risk looking like a fool for love,
for your dreams, for the adventure of being alive.

It doesn't interest me what planets are squaring your moon.
I want to know if you have touched
the center of your own sorrow,
if you have been opened by life's betrayals,
or have become shriveled and closed from fear of further pain.

It doesn't interest me if the story you're telling me is true.
I want to know if you can disappoint another
to be true to yourself;
if you can bear the accusation of betrayal
and not betray your own soul.

I want to know if you can be faithful
and therefore be trustworthy.

I want to know if you can see beauty
even when it is not pretty every day,
and if you can source your life from God's presence.

I want to know if you can live with failure,
yours or mine,
and still stand on the edge of a lake
and shout to the silver of the full moon, "Yes"!

It doesn't interest me where you live
or how much money you have.

I want to know if you can get up
after the night of grief and despair,
weary and bruised to the bone,
and do what needs to be done
for the children, for another.

It doesn't interest me who you are,
how you came to be here.

I want to know if you will stand in the center
of the fire with me and not shrink back.

It doesn't interest me where or what
or with whom you have studied.

I want to know what sustains you
from the inside when all else falls away.

I want to know if you can be alone with yourself,
and if you truly like the company
you keep in the empty moments.



(Oriah Mountain Dreamer, 1994)

Awwww...Captain ...

Thank you Sweetheart





Love to you Big Guy and Lady Eileen

A message to single_rob...


I wanted to say that we have had a misunderstanding

and last night i realized fully what it was...


I was reading the first link you wrote ...


I stopped there
it was so rough and very hard to read as it was,
i didn't even finish it all....

i was soo tired,
plus it was so painful to even read


I have never been a history major by any means...

but my question is ...
who is to say that these accounts are accurate anyway?

From what i gathered in the text,

who you asked to tell you what happened ,

would determine what story you received...

and if these people were as ruthless as depicted,

i find it hard to think that anyone

could have survived and escaped....

but , the thing is,. whether it was true or not...

the topic of this thread is:

<<< Native American Indians Words of Wisdom >>>


it wasn't <who did what to who way back when>

I was all enthralled with the beauty of the writings

and you came in with that initial message,

which really didn't have anything

to do with their literature...

so, that is what threw me a huge curve ball...

you know.,...can you see my point???

if you want to do a thorough historical search
as to the behavior of these various tribes,
we would have to spend a lifetime unraveling mysteries,
i think...for the accounts of what actually happened
vary so much & i am sure that each tribe was different...

so, I thank you in one way for opening my eyes

to the harsh reality ...

although i knew it wasn't a pleasant walk in the park

if in fact these accounts are actually accurate

of the things that went on way back when....


but yet i still have to wonder ,

if they were all such savages,

then where

did all of this incredibly beautiful literature come from ?

I am not a history major by any means ~
i am just speaking from speculation....
I don't think many of us here in the States ,
except Our Soldiers & MIA and POW's

( and for those poor unfortunate souls
who have been victimized by ruthless human predators,
the jeffrey dahmers and ted bundys of the world)

have ever ever experienced such hunger or such freezing cold
or such repeated pain...searing heat ( such heartless torture )
to be compared with the conditions these people had to endure...

So, it is impoosible for me to say

either nay or yay

to what you have brought up here in this thread...


but if you really want to debate this...

it truly should be saved for a thread

that you initially post & title appropriately ///


understand my position now???

oh, and also ...the first sentence of mt topic says..


"an Indian Nation at peace and at war..."

,so i wasn't doubting the unrest there by any means

Your right that is sooo beautiful...

being native american,,,its hard to understand what it means to be,,,its just something in side you,,,like some one said here to be come one with,,,when you understand what it means to be come one with all beings,,,then you fully know what we are talking about