Community > Posts By > Redykeulous
Topic:
What is in a definition?
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Let's talk about what constitutes being a proper definition. We ought keep something in mind here. Some things are created within our mind and some things are not. We define all of these things. Before I read through the rest of this thread I wanted to add what I think would help to create a proper definition. A proper definition is a cognitive construct which should include dominant characteristics or features of the word and address functionality. A proper definition may also include etymology, or the historical reference of the word’s common use through time, thus providing a broader framework within which the construct has developed. |
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Topic:
Is Truth Subjective?
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There is no such a thing as "true" for you, "true" for me "true" for him, or "true" for her... To finish it off: There are only one's own beliefs, and what it true for everyone. |
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Topic:
What is in a definition?
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Diet and exercise result in the constitution for proper definition. And people call me Webster, I have such definition. As my dad would "oh, a wise cracker are ya?" |
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Topic:
Is Truth Subjective?
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So we have witnessed two logical consequences of holding that truth is subjective. One led to admitting to not knowing what makes their claims true, and the other admitted to not believing that their own thoughts were true. What better reason can we find to know that holding that truth is subjective leads to unintelligible nonsense? Yes. So many times in these threads the 'semantics' card is played. A single word can have meanings that can totally change the concept of a claim. Often the problem arises when a less common definition is assigned to the word thus confusing everyone for whom the meaning is incorrect. In this thread we have been dealing with the words, truth, facts, and reality. I see now just how hung up I can get, myself, on a 'common' definition. Additionally I can see how 'consensus' of wrong thinking can more deeply ingrain that way of thinking, making it very difficult to change. (ie: subjective belief that that belief is truth) If I am asked to witness an event specifically to provide an accurate account of the event, I will be paying close attention and I will do my best to provide such an account. I, and probabaly a lot of other poeple, understand that my account is not truth but merely the claims I have made from my subjective memory of only the small part of the event I had witnessed. Do I believe I speak the truth - yes, I believe my account of the event is given with integrity and honesty so I believe, using one definition of the word truth, that I speak the truth. However,ODDLY, I know that my account is only partial and is purlty subjective and may not accurately and fully depict "the truth of the matter." I say that is odd because, even though I have that understanding, I had a very difficult time with this topic and it is all becuase I had an inaccurate understanding of what the words truth, facts, and reality encompass. I had to relax my mind in the same way you have to relax an injured arm or leg to give complete control of its movement to a doctor. Thanks Creative for making me relax my mind. I am sure I don't have quite the grasp of this subject as others might, but I have learned somethings about myself and I like that. |
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Topic:
Is Truth Subjective?
Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Fri 07/22/11 05:35 AM
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'The cup is on the table' IFF the cup is on the table.
Would you agree? Yes I would agree that the cup is on the table IFF the cup is on the table. Are you claiming that the cup IS on the table? Well, of course I am, there it is---------> Do we need more? Ok, we both began with a common understanding of what a cup and what a table are. You claimed the cup is on the table over there ----->, I looked over there and verified that I did see a cup on the table. Since we are not both standing directly in front of the cup that you claim is on the table, I would think that the next step would be to verify that we are both looking at the same cup and table. Perhaps we need to step up to the table together and verify that we are indeed seeing the same cup on the table. Also we need to verify that we are discussing an actual cup and table as you did not include any other characteristics in your claim I am looking for the actual cup & table complete with common functionality. For example, we could be looking at a card board cut out or a wall painting. Facsimilies of things are not the actual things being discussed - are they? |
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Topic:
Is Truth Subjective?
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Alright Di, I expect by now you're ready to talk about perception and what not. I'm ready to purse a different line of thought here, as the other has just ended by my asking what the difference was between a true belief and a false one. A subjective truth position cannot answer that question and remain coherent. Ok - I looked over there -------> and I verified that the claim "the cup is on the table" corresponds to the cup I see on the table. Next! |
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Topic:
Is Truth Subjective?
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Jb, Abra, Dragoness, or anyone else who holds that truth is subjective... What is the difference between a true belief and a false belief? Now we are talking on a philosophical level here though. Technically there is no false belief. If a person believes it it is their truth. Now your belief that smurfs really do exist may not be a true belief to me but for you it is true. So false beliefs are a personal judgement call. But if a person believes something it is their true belief. You don't believe that Smurfs exist? Why? |
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Topic:
Is Truth Subjective?
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'The cup is on the table' IFF the cup is on the table. Would you agree? Yes I would agree that the cup is on the table IFF the cup is no the table. Are yo claiming that the cup IS on the table? |
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yes, this is sad and scary heading down a road of being slaves to technology,, IM not real excited about it personally It however is not the 16th century. This is the natural progression, I applaud the beginning of the end of overpriced information. Ummmmm, the do sell more then books. They sell music, mp3 players, dvd's, software etc. Not to mention these new Electronic Books(like Kindle, which are a waste of money) are all technology. Major brick and mortar stores are failing becuase people find shopping online easier. I personally do not own a kindle, or any e-reader, not becuase I do not love reading, not becuase I do not want my books cheaper, but becuase I am too busy spending money on ammunition training for USPSA. In a few more months or if they drop the price again I will pick one up, they are awesome. Lighter, no more cramps in my hands from reading all night, they are faster, no more running around town wasting gas looking for a title, they are smarter, they can help me find books I may like based on what I have already downloaded. Sorry, the arguments for big book stores are thin. Lets donate to our local libraries instead. That is what I am doing. I donated a few hundred fiction novels, and gave a few dozen to a friends kid. I spent thousands of dollars on all those books, I did a little looking and NOT a single one could not be had on amazon for the kindle at a fraction of the cost. At least my money will help someone else who cant afford a kindle, or those books when they go to the library and check out a book I paid for. And we still Half Price Bookstore - but it's just not the same. The Library is not the same either - they need a cafe' and an outdoor deck for nice weather and place for browers to sit comfy cozy furniture. It was more than a book store, it was a place where people had words in common and through those words they met face-to-face and formed friendships and shared thier reading adventures. When the economy gets better, we really need to rethink the whole library idea - broaden its scope and make it a more attractive meeting and reading place. |
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If you are a corporation do you get to vote more than once?
If you are a corporation? Do you mean if YOU have incorporated would you get to vote more than once? Vote for what? I own stock in several corporations. Does that mean I should get extra votes or does it mean I should get no vote?
Explain what you THINK your ownership of corporate stock has to do with voting of any kind and show how that fits with reality. I feel that if you decide who you are going to vote for based only upon political advertisements you shouldn't be voting in the first place.
WHAT'S THAT YOU SAY????? - you seriously don't think that our mainstream media is capable of educating the masses on the few political candidates they would be asked to vote for? HOW SHOCKING. How do you determine who the best candidate for the job is? |
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Bad link... On the other, after clicking the play arrow, click on Citizens United vs. FEC 2011 found on the right side bar I've watched those, they are have been thoroughly debunked and they were made for kids. |
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Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Wed 07/20/11 08:32 PM
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OK - NEVER MIND I got excited and posted this before I had caught up with the thread. Creative already suggested reveiwing this link. But I'm going to leave it in case someone missed watching it. Also Go to http://storyofstuff.org/citizensunited/ It is SEASON 2: The Story of Citizens United v. FEC: Why Democracy Only Works When People Are in Charge: Annie Leonard
Director, the Story of Stuff Project Posted: March 1, 2011 11:15 AM http://www.huffingtonpost.com/annie-leonard/why-democracy-only-works-_b_829454.html SEASON 2 Why Democracy Only Works When People Are in Charge http://storyofstuff.org/citizensunited/ Democracy: government of the people, by the people, for the people. It's the platform where we work out our differences, dreams and desires and figure out how to move forward as a society. We can't have a healthy functioning democracy with corporations given legal status equal to real people. It just doesn't work. And we can't solve today's pressing environmental, economic and social problems without a healthy functioning democracy. Which is why we need to band together to do two things: get the corporations out of our democracy and get the people back in. (It's also why I decided to devote my latest film - launched today - to this very issue. Please watch The Story of Citizens United v FEC: Why Democracy Only Works when People are in Charge, and pass it on.) |
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Topic:
Is Truth Subjective?
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Whether or not a belief in god is true all depends upon whether or not it corresponds to and/or necessarily follows from fact/reality. I'm driving a wedge between a belief in something or other, and a belief that something or other. Something or other need be clearly defined prior to our being able to analyze either, a belief in or a belief that something or other exists. "God exists" and "possibility exists" are two entirely different animals.
Regarding the quote above, that would be the case IFF, a belief that it is possible is the entirety of the belief. That point is crucial to my thinking on the matter. If a belief is held that some sort of unknown entity may exist without any other conditions, without any properties or attributes being attached to this unknown entity, then a belief that a god may exist is true. It is an acknowledgment of the unknown, the ineffable. We ought be very careful in our parsing things out here, for the unknown realm is the birthplace of illusory thought/belief stemming from purely imaginary objects - those of which that always breach the ineffable condition of the unknown realm. This goes along, several posts, with your objection to using ( a ) or (the) to prefix the subject. What you refer to as ineffable, (e.g. the indescribable attributes of god), are necessarily ineffable because we are considering an unknown realm which we have both agreed is only a realm of ‘possible existence’ for which we cannot have pre-existing knowledge. To add anything more, (i.e. attributing characteristics to, or describing god in any way) would be “purely illusory thought/belief stemming from purely imaginary objects.” I think comprehend thus far. The possibility that there are things which exist completely unbeknownst to us is more than evident. We know that that possibility exists. Therefore, on my view, that is the intellectually self-honest position to hold. However, and this is also crucial to understand... it is an empty claim - void of all properties, void of all attributes, void of all distinction, and therefore void of all substantial meaning. It is completely meaningless... necessarily so, as all unknowns must be.
Yes, I agree 'God exists' IFF God exists.
The antecedent is a claim about the way things are. The predicate is a linguistic placemark for fact/reality(the way things are). So, in short claims about the way things are are true if and only if they match up to the way things are. This fairly recent linguistic tool and it actually works very well. However, in order to avoid the possibility of unnecessary confusion, for the time being let's avoid the meaninglessness inherent to 'God exists' and employ something a little more useful. I'll go back to a good example that I've adopted from another philosopher on another forum. It sets things out rather nicely, and very simply. 'The cup is on the table' IFF the cup is on the table. I'll pause here because I'm almost certain that you've a couple of questions for me already... Am I correct? Not at the moment – please proceed with your example. |
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Topic:
Is Truth Subjective?
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Been a long hot day. I'll be back tomorrow to reply. Thanks
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Topic:
Rise of atheism.
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fear is always real and often not apparent even if someone had not seen proof THEMSELF or verified THEMSELF that thieves have their hands cut off,, if it was TRUE, it would be justified to be fearful of it before having to experience it oneself if it wasnt true, than that person would just have a pleasant surprise should they ever decide to steal,,,, religion is only a documented set of beliefs and values,, in the end the ones that matter will matter, whether you adhered to them because of a religion or whatever other reason the religion doesnt cause you to perish, the real consequences do religion just has the capacity to be correct or incorrect about the circumstances which bring about such consequences,,, Do you think all humans fear death? What reasons do humans have to fear death? Do you think that a belief that eternal existence with loved ones relieves the fear of death? If the eternal existence is conditional based on an ambiguous set of behaviors does the fear of death increase? Would it not make sense that if a person believed he or she was following the ONLY acceptable behaviors for eternal life that fear of death would be relieved? It seems to be that all these beliefs are about relieving fear by creating more fear. Humans don't need religious beliefs, we are naturally equipped with psychological mechanisms that help us live day to day without the stress of constant fear. Unfortunately, it seems our own creativity is one of these mechanisms, and so people have created these intolerable religious belief systems. |
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Topic:
Something out of nothing.
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Aren't you quite the philosopher. You do understand the definition of nothing, right? So how did you dtermine that nothing is something? Can you please explain that to me. Amarii, I think Abracadabra just gave the answer before your post that answers your post. We assume there was a big bang, that started the universe. This necessitates the existence of nothing before the big bang. Therefore there was nothing before the big bang. But the big bang started somehow, whether it was a quantum resonation or not that caused it to start, and therefore nothing was something -- it was not physical of how we define things today as "physical", and non-phycical entities are not considered physcially "something"; therefore the physically nothing was something in a different aspect, because we also assume that the creation of the big bang was caused, not intentionally or by will necessarily, but by the necessity of "cause-effect" chain of events. Why does the big bang necessitate the existence of nothing before it happened? Universal expansion may indeed be intruding on a lot of something. Perhaps the expanding universe is a bubble within all that something and perhaps the something that the universe expands into becomes part of a matrix that creates the effects we attribute to string theory and quantum physics. Possible? |
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Topic:
Is Truth Subjective?
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Well, my favorite spider has scurried away... else I'd be playin' in the political section. It is close to Maddow time... She is pretty good, and funny. You'd like her. AH! Maddow - sigh! |
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Topic:
Is Truth Subjective?
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we interrupt this program for a momentary humour break you may continue ... |
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Topic:
Is Truth Subjective?
Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Tue 07/19/11 08:02 AM
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Creative wrote:
QUOTE: What it would take to make the statement true, in the absense of 'hard evidence', is plausibility. If the person believes he/she is speaking truth, then the spoken view need only be believed an accurate depiction that is plausible. I'd have to disagree with the first statement here Di. Plausibility does not make a claim true, rather it makes it believable. False claims are sometimes plausible, based upon the known facts of the time. Thunderstorms are a result of God's rage/anger. We did not know any better. Plausibility is the affect that demonstrable logical possibility grounded by objective fact(universal states of affairs) has on the mind. Correspondence to fact/reality(truth) is the only thing that makes a claim true, and we are limited in our innate and artificial abilities to detect certain aspects of the universe. There are certain states of universal affairs that happen beyond our detection capability. Therefore, we know that we are limited in our ability to become aware of the correspondence between certain scientific theories(M-Theory) and the universal states of affairs that they aim to describe and predict. YES - wonderful. Thanks for keeping with my example and expanding it to the concept of God. The concept of God was born out of the realm of logical possibility and still resides there.
So as I read the quote above I thought of you saying "What would it take for a 'belief' in a god to be true" It takes only the belief in the possibility of a god to make the belief true. God's existence cannot be corresponded to (truth). It is possible that gods exist Therefore, to believe in god is to believe in its possibility Regarding the second claim...
What is "speaking truth" other than a speaker who is making statements about the way things are/were that s/he believes? You see how the (mis)treatment regarding the objectification of "truth" conflates one's own belief, which they believe to be true, with that which makes it so? Much clearer now. I have to continue to watch for this though so I will try to use your prase "what would it take for 'the' claim to be true". Thanks |
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