Is that a a peyote flower you trying to give me? You really should stop that stuff... seriously. Have you read anything that I've written? *sighs*

It doesn't make what Abra said any less true.

*gets out the bug spray*

Damn pesky spiders!

I have already found what I've been looking for. Just because one studies many different religions doesn't mean one hasn't found what they are looking for. Studying just means studying. I'm practicing within the spiritual realm that I've been called to practice in. I'm quite content more so now than I ever was playing Churchianity.

Even if I was a LaVeyan Satanist they do NOT sacrifice animals or humans, as it is stated in the beginning of this thread. However, it's interesting to note that the Judeo/Christian religions require blood sacrifices both animal (Judaiam) and human (Christian).

Thank you very much. I'm happy that you realize that I'm not proselytizing. I will keep your son in my thoughts and prayers. I hope he gets to feeling better soon.

I repeat once again... I'm not a Satanist. I find LaVeyan Satanism interesting. I also find Buddhism, Native American Spirituality, Psychic Vampirism, and Tantric Vampirism very interesting. I'm a Christian Pagan Witch. I worship Father God, Mother Goddess (The Holy Spirit) and their son Jesus the Christ. I study the Holy Bible, The Lost Books of the Bible, The Pistis Sophia, The Nag Hammadi Library, and The Apocrypha. Before I became a Pagan and a Witch I was a pentecostal Christian for 10 years. Please do not treat me as though I'm a lost soul in need of saving. Please stop proselytizing.

Then why did you bother to click on the thread and bother to post a comment?

They are not "my" rules. I'm not a Satanist. I simply find LaVeyan Satanism interesting. I share in this community what I find interesting in hopes to find others with the same interests to converse with within these forums. It's something that every single person who posts threads in these forums do. I'm not doing anything that everyone else hasn't already done before. I don't find my post long at all. But if you find it too long you, no one is forcing you to read it.

Being new to this site I didn't realize til just recently that we the people can vote threads to be deleted. All a thread needs to be deleted is 7 votes. What happened to the Satanism thread? A certain group of people got together and decided to get the "devil" off of "their" forums.

Let's try this again. Please respect this thread. Do not come here to proselytize. This is a Religion forum. This is not a forum for one particular religious group. With that said, let's try this again.

I've been studying (not necessarily practicing) Satanism as of late. I've found it very interesting. Just to clarify, I've been studying about the beliefs and practices of The Official Church of Satan founded by Anton Szandor LaVey back in 1966. LaVeyan Satanists do not believe there is a God. They do not believe there is a Satan. To LaVeyan Satanists Satan is an abstract symbol of how man should live by his carnal desires. From my understanding, LaVey built a religion around all the so called "sins" of Christianity. Most everything that Christians considered good and holy (Jesus, the Ten Commandments, The Crucifixion, ect.) was deemed as man made moral dogma according to LaVey and must be put into question. Of course he felt that way about all religions however it was quite evident that he was mainly biased against Christianity.

A side note, there are a small religious sect of Satanists called Luciferian Satanists, who are similar to LaVeyan Satanists except in one very important way. Luciferian Satanists believe Lucifer (Satan) is a real entity and is to be worshipped and the Christian God is their enemy. Just so everyone is clear, when I'm referring to Satanists here I'm referring to LaVeyan Satanists and NOT Luciferian Satanists.

Here are some beliefs of LaVeyan Satanists.



The Nine Satanic Statements from The Satanic Bible by Anton Szandor LaVey

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!



The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth by Anton Szandor LaVey

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.



The Nine Satanic Sins by Anton Szandor LaVey

1. Stupidity—The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.

2. Pretentiousness—Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn’t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone’s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.

3. Solipsism—Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won’t. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of “Do unto others as they do unto you.” It’s work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.

4. Self-deceit—It’s in the “Nine Satanic Statements” but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it’s fun, and with awareness. But then, it’s not self-deceit!

5. Herd Conformity—That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.

6. Lack of Perspective—Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.

7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies—Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it’s something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.

8. Counterproductive Pride—That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.

9. Lack of Aesthetics—This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It’s not what’s supposed to be pleasing—it’s what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one’s own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied.



PENTAGONAL REVISIONISM: A FIVE-POINT PROGRAM by Anton Szandor LaVey

In recent years, we’ve wasted far too much time explaining that Satanism has nothing to do with kidnapping, drug abuse, child molestation, animal or child sacrifice, or any number of other acts that idiots, hysterics or opportunists would like to credit us with. Satanism is a life-loving, rational philosophy that millions of people adhere to. Now we’re ready for something that goes quite a few steps beyond just explaining our principles. Every revisionist movement needs a set of goals/guidelines that are clear, concrete, and that will effect significant changes.

The following Five-Point Program reflects attitudes which allow others to decide whether they wish to align themselves with Satanism or not. Each is necessary for Satanic change to take place. When asked what we’re “doing,” here’s the answer:

1. Stratification—The point on which all the others ultimately rest. There can be no more myth of “equality” for all—it only translates to “mediocrity” and supports the weak at the expense of the strong. Water must be allowed to seek its own level without interference from apologists for incompetence. No one should be protected from the effects of his own stupidity.

2. Strict taxation of all churches—If churches were taxed for all their income and property, they’d crumble overnight of their own obsolescence, and the National Debt would be wiped out as quickly. The productive, the creative, the resourceful should be subsidized. So long as the useless and incompetent are getting paid, they should be heavily taxed.

3. No tolerance for religious beliefs secularized and incorporated into law and order issues—to re-establish “Lex Talionis” would require a complete overturning of the present in-justice system based on Judeo-Christian ideals, where the victim/defender has been made the criminal. Amnesty should be considered for anyone in prison because of his alleged “influence” upon the actual perpetrator of the crime. Everyone is influenced in what he or she does. Scapegoating has become a way of life, a means of survival for the unfit. As an extension of the Judeo-Christian cop-out of blaming the Devil for everything, criminals can gain leniency, even praise, by placing the blame on a convenient villain. Following the Satanic creed of “Responsibility to the responsible,” in a Satanic society, everyone must experience the consequences of his own actions—for good or ill.

4. Development and production of artificial human companions—The forbidden industry. An economic “godsend” which will allow everyone “power” over someone else. Polite, sophisticated, technologically feasible slavery. And the most profitable industry since T.V. and the computer.

5. The opportunity for anyone to live within a total environment of his or her choice, with mandatory adherence to the aesthetic and behavioral standards of same—Privately owned, operated and controlled environments as an alternative to homogenized and polyglot ones. The freedom to insularize oneself within a social milieu of personal well-being. An opportunity to feel, see, and hear that which is most aesthetically pleasing, without interference from those who would pollute or detract from that option.

This is the encapsulated version of the current thrust of Satanic advocacy. So when someone asks you, “Well, what do Satanists do?”, you will be qualified to tell him.



From "The Satanic Bible" by Anton LaVey

(FIRE)
THE BOOK OF SATAN
THE INFERNAL DIATRIBE

The first book of the Satanic Bible is not an attempt to blaspheme as much as it is a statement of what might be termed "diabolical indignation." The Devil has been attacked by men of God relentlessly and without reservation. Never has there been an opportunity, short of fiction, for the Dark Prince to speak out in the same manner as the spokesman of the Lord of the Righteous. The pulpit pounders of the past have been free to define "good" and "evil" as they see fit, and have gladly smashed into oblivion any who disagree with their lies, both verbally and at times, physically. Their talk of "charity," when applied to His Infernal Majesty, becomes an empty sham, and most unfairly, too, considering the obvious fact that without their Satanic foe their very religions would collapse... (snipped)


THE BOOK OF SATAN

I.
1. In this arid wilderness of steel and stone I raise up my voice that you may hear. To the East and to the West I beckon. To the North and to the South I show a sign proclaiming: Death to the weakling, wealth to the strong!

2. Open your eyes that you may see, Oh men of mildewed minds, and listen to me ye bewildered millions!

3. For I stand forth to challenge the wisdom of the world; to interrogate the "laws" of man and of "God!"

4. I request reasons for your golden rule and ask the why and wherefore of your ten commands.

5. Before none of your printed idols do I bend in aquiescence, and he who saith "thou shalt" to me is my mortal foe!

6. I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of you impotent mad redeemer, and write over his thorn-torn brow: The TRUE prince of evil, the king of the slaves!

7. No hoary falsehood shall be truth to me; no stifling dogma shall encramp my pen!

8. I break away from all conventions that do not lead to my earthly success and hapiness.

9. I raise up in stern invasion the standard of the strong!

10. I gaze into the glassy eye of your Jehovah, and pluck him by the beard; I uplift a broad-axe, and split open his worm eaten skull!

11. I blast out the ghastly contents of philosophically whitted sepulchers and laugh with sardonic wrath!


II.
1. Behold the crucifix; what does it symbolize? Pallid incompetence hanging on a tree.

2. I question all things. As I stand before the festering and vanished facades of your haughtiest moral dogmas, I write thereon in letters of blazing scorn: Lo and behold; all this is fraud!

3. Gather around me, Oh! Ye death-defiant, and the earth itself shall be thine, to have and to hold!

4. Too long the dead hand has been permitted to sterlize living thought!

5. Too long right and wrong, good and evil have been inverted by false prophets!

6. No creed must be accepted by authority of a “divine” nature. Religions must be put to the question. No moral dogma must be taken for granted -- no standard of measurement defied. There is nothing inherently sacred about moral codes. Like the wooden idols of long ago, they are the work of human hands, and what man has made, man can destroy!

7. He that is slow to believe anything and everything is of great understanding, for beliefe in one false principle is the beginning of all unwisdom.

8. The chief duty of every new age is to upraise new men to determine its liberties, to lead it towards material success -- to rend the rusty padlocks and chains of dead custom that always prevent healthy expansion. Theories and ideas that may have meant life and hope and freedom for our ancestors may now mean destruction, slavery, and dishonor to us!

9. As environments change, no human ideal standeth sure!

10. Whenever, therefore, a lie has built unto itself a throne, let it be assailed without pity and without regret, for under the domination of an inconvenient falsehood, no one can prosper.

11. Let established sophisms be dethroned, rooted out, burnt and destroyed, for they are a standing menace to all true nobility of thought and action!

12. Whatever alleged “truth” is proven by results to be but an empty fiction, let it be unceremoniously flung into the outer darkness, among the dead gods, dead empires, dead philosophies, and other useless lumber and wreckage!

13. The most dangerous of all enthroned lies is the holy, the sanctified, the privileged lie -- the lie everyone believes to be a model truth. It is the fruitful mother of all other popular errors and delusions. It is a hydra-headed tree of unreason with a thousand roots. It is a social cancer!

14. The lie that is known to be a lie is half eradicated, but the lie that even intelligent persons accept as fact -- the lie that has been inculcated in a little child at its mother’s knee -- is more dangerous to contend against then a creeping pestilence!

15. Popular lies have ever been the most potent enemies of personal liberty. There is only one way to deal with them: Cut them out, to the very core, just as cancers. Exterminate them root and branch. Annihalate them, or they will us!


III.
1. “Love one another” it has been said is the supreme law, but what power made it so? Upon what rational authority does the gospel of love rest? Why should I not hate mine enemies -- if I “love” them does that not place me at their mercy?

2. Is it natural for enemies to do good unto each other -- and WHAT IS GOOD?

3. Can the torn and bloody victom “love” the blood splashed jaws that rend him limb from limb?

4. Are we not all predatory animals by instinct> If humans ceased wholly from preying upon each other, could they continue to exist?

5. Is not “lust and carnal desire” a more truthful term to describe “love” when applied to the continuance of the race? Is not the “love” of the fawning scriptures simply a euphemism for sexual activity, or was the “great teacher” a glorifier or eunuchs?

6. Love your enemies and do good to them that hate and use you -- is this not the despicable philophy of the spaniel that rolls upon its back when kicked?

7. Hate your enemies with a whole heart, and if a man smite you on one cheek, SMASH him on the other!; smite him hip and thigh, for self-preservation is the highest law!

8. He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog!

9. Give blow for blow, scorn for scorn, doom for doom -- with compound interest liberally added thereunto! Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, aye four-fold, a hundred-fold! Make yourself a Terror to your adversary, and when he goeth his way, he will posses much additional wisdom to ruminate over. Thus shall you make yourself respected in all the walks of life, and your spirit -- your immortal spirit -- shall live, not in an intangible paradise, but in the brains and sinews of those whose respect you have gained.


IV.
1. Life is the great indulgence -- death, the great abstinence. Therefore, make the most of life -- HERE AND NOW!

2. There is no heaven of glory bright, and no hell where sinners roast. Here and now is our day of torment! Here and now is our day of joy! Here and now is our opportunity! Choose ye this day, this hour, for no redeemer liveth!

3. Say unto thine own heart, “I am mine own redeemer.”

4. Stop the way of them that would persecute you. Let those who devise thine undoing be hurled back to confusion and infamy. Let them be as chaff before the cyclone and after they have fallen rejoice in thine own salvation.

5. Then all they bones shall say pridefully, “Who is like unto me? Have I not been too strong for mine adversaries? Have I not delivered MYSELF by mine own brain and body?”


V.
1. Blessed are the strong, for they shall possess the earth -- Cursed are the weak, for they shall inherit the yoke!

2. Blessed are the powerful, for they shall be reverenced among men -- Cursed are the feeble, for they shall be blotted out!

3. Blessed are the bold, for they shall be masters of the world -- Cursed are the righteously humble, for they shall be trodden under hoofs!

4. Blessed are the victorious, for victory is the basis of right -- Cursed are the vanquished, for they shall be vassals forever!

5. Blessed are the iron-handed, for the unfit shall flee before them -- Cursed are the poor in spirit, for they shall be spat upon.

6. Blessed are the death-defiant, for their days shall be long in the land -- Cursed are the gazers towards a richer life beyond the grave, for they shall perish amidst plenty!

7. Blessed are the destroyers of false hope, for they are the true Messiahs -- Cursed are the god-adorers, for they shall be shorn sheep!

8. Blessed are the valiant, for they shall obtain great treasure -- Cursed are the believers in good and evil, for they are frightened by shadows!

9. Blessed are those that believe in what is best for them, for never shall their minds be terrorized -- Cursed are the “lambs of God,” for they shall be bled whiter than snow!

10. Blessed is the man who has a sprinkling of enemies, for they shall make him a hero -- Cursed is he who doeth good unto others who sneer upon him in return, for he shall be despised!

11. Blessed are the mighty-minded, for they shall ride the whirlwinds -- Cursed are they who teach lies for truth and truth for lies, for they are an abomination.

12. Thrice cursed are the weak whose insecurity makes them vile, for they shall serve and suffer!

13. The angel of self-deceit is camped in the souls of the “righteous” -- The eternal flame of power through joy dwelleth within the flesh of the Satanist!

The Buddhist Teachings of Jesus

The sublime promises of the Sermon on the Mount have always been the crowning moment and the heart of the Christian message. But now, scholars have accepted the Sermon on the Mount message as the teachings of the Buddha spoken some 500 years before the birth of Christ.

A beatitude is a declaration of happiness or promised blessing resulting from an individuals virtue or good deeds. They describe the qualities of perfection and the promise of future blessings rather than current material or physical rewards.

The Beatitudes of Christ represent eight upward steps toward attaining the blessedness of a divine Life. They are expressed in Matthew 5 in the New Testament, and Lection XXV of the Gospel of the Nazarenes, as an important part of His Sermon on the Mount.

These are the words as spoken by Jesus in Matthew Ch.5, v.3-12.

Blessed in spirit are the poor: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

"Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."

These teachings were also used in the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs. It was a great favorite among the early Christians and is much used and quoted by St Paul. The Gospels also quote liberally from this source.


Origins of the Beatitudes
The original beatitudes were actually spoken by the Buddha some five centuries before Christ, when the Buddha delivered the first "sermon on a mountain."

The heart of man, Buddha said, was a burning fire, and so were the objects in the three worlds, the objects that could be seen, felt, heard, or touched. This fire was the fire of lust, of anger and of ignorance. It was due to the shortcomings of a life posed to rebirth, sickness, old age and mortal anxieties.

Only disciples of Buddha could escape the torments of this fiery furnace. Freed from lust and human passion, they had acquired the wisdom that leads to the Perfect Man.

This sermon was delivered on Elephant's Head Mountain near Buddha Gayâ. The Suffanspita, U. Sutra reads as follows:

The Blessed One was once living at the monastery of Anithapic ika in Jeta's grove, near Savatthi. Now when the night was far advanced, a certain deity, whose surpassing splendour illuminated the entire Jeta Grove, came into the presence of the Blessed One, and, drawing near, respectfully saluted Him and stood on one side. Standing thus, he addressed the Blessed One in verse:

(The Deity)
Many angels and men have held various things a blessing when they were yearning for inner wisdom. Lord Buddha, do declare to us the greatest blessing.

(Buddha)
Not to serve the foolish, But to serve the spiritual;
To honour those worthy of honour,— This is the greatest blessing.

To dwell in a spot that befits one's condition, To think of the effect of one's deeds, To guide the behaviour aright,— This is the greatest blessing.

Much insight and education, Self-control and pleasant speech,
And whatever word be well spoken,— This is the greatest blessing.

To support father and mother, To cherish wife and child,
To follow a peaceful calling,— This is the greatest blessing.

To bestow alms and live righteously, To give help to kindred,
Deeds which cannot be blamed, These are the greatest blessing.

To abhor and cease from sin, Abstinence from strong drink,
Not to be weary in well-doing, These are the greatest blessing.

Reverence and lowliness, Contentment and gratitude,
The hearing of the Law at due seasons,— This is the greatest blessing.

To be long suffering and meek, To associate with the tranquil,
Religious talk at due seasons,— This is the greatest blessing.

Self-restraint and purity, The knowledge of the noble truths,
The attainment of Nirvana, This is the greatest blessing.

In the midst of the eight world miseries, Like the man of pure life,
Be calm and unconcerned,— This is the greatest blessing.

Listener, if you keep this Law, The Law of the spiritual world,
You will know its ineffable joy,— This is the greatest blessing.

When we begin to compare the literatures contemporaneous with the New Testament, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Nag Hammadi Codices, and Early Christian and Jewish Pseudepigraphical materials and compare them with other spiritual or mystical traditions, we begin to find much to digest, much to ponder, and discover the understanding of universal truth.


http://www.thenazareneway.com/beatitudes_of_christ.htm

I'd go watch this movie... would you?

Jesus in India
Film based on Aquarian Gospel to cover years left out of New Testament
by Randeep Ramesh in New Delhi

Hollywood is to fill in the Bible's "missing years" with a story about Jesus as a wandering mystic who travelled across India, living in Buddhist monasteries and speaking out against the iniquities of the country's caste system.

Film producers have delved deep into revisionist scholarship to piece together what they say was Jesus's life between the ages of 13 and 30, a period untouched by the recognised gospels.

The result is the Aquarian Gospel, a $20m movie, which portrays Jesus as a holy man and teacher inspired by a myriad of eastern religions in India. The Aquarian Gospel takes its name from a century-old book that examined Christianity's eastern roots and is in its 53rd reprint.

The film's producers say the movie will be shot using actors and computer animation like 300, the retelling of the Battle of Thermopylae, and will follow the travels of Yeshua, believed to be the name for Jesus in Aramaic, from the Middle East to India. Casting for suitable Hollywood actors has begun.

"The Bible devotes just seven words to the most formative years of Yeshua's life saying: 'The boy grew in wisdom and stature'. The film will follow Christ's journey to the east where he encounters other traditions, and discovers the principles that are the bedrock of all the world's great religions," said Drew Heriot, the film's director, whose credits include the hit movie The Secret.

The film, which is due for release in 2009, sets out to be an account of Jesus's life with the three wise men as his mentors. Although the producers say the film will feature a "young and beautiful" princess, it is not clear whether Jesus is to have a love interest.

The producers say they are hoping for commercial and spiritual gains. "We think that Indian religions and Buddhism, especially with the idea of meditation, played a big part in Christ's thinking. In the film we are looking beyond the canonised gospels to the 'lost' gospels," said William Sees Keenan, the producer.

"We are looking at new themes. In our story Jesus was loyal to the untouchables [in India] and he defended them with his life by saying that everyone could read the Vedas [Hindu holy books]," said Mr Keenan.

The theory that Jesus's teachings had roots in Indian traditions has been around for more than a century.

In 1894 a Russian doctor, Nicholas Notovitch, published a book called The Unknown Life of Christ, in which he claimed that while recovering from a broken leg in a Tibetan monastery in the Ladakh region, close to Kashmir, he had been shown evidence of Christ's Indian wanderings.

He said he was shown a scroll recording a visit by Jesus to India and Tibet as a young man. Indian experts claim that documentary proof remains of this Himalayan visit.

"I have seen the scrolls which show Buddhist monks talking about Jesus's visits. There are also coins from that period which show Yuzu or have the legend Issa on them, referring to Jesus from that period," said Fida Hassnain, former director of archaeology at the University of Srinagar.

Hassnain, who has written books on the legend of Jesus in India, points out that there was extensive traffic between the Mediterranean and India around the time of Jesus's life. The academic pointed out that in Srinagar a tomb of Issa is still venerated. "It is the Catholic church which has closed its mind on the subject. Historians have not."

More dramatic are the claims that Buddhism had prompted the move from the "eye for an eye" ideology of the Old Testament to "love thy neighbour" in the New Testament.

In 1995 a German religious expert, Holger Kersten, claimed that Jesus had been schooled by Buddhist monks to believe in non-violence and to challenge the priesthood. Kersten's book remains a bestseller in India.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2213056,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12

As I was saying...

My daughter came to me when she was 12 and said she wanted to become a vegetarian. I told her that before I gave my blessing she had to do some research and write a report on how her very young and still growing body could get the proper nutrition it needs on a vegetarian diet. She agreed to my terms. As she did that, I did my own research and consulted family doctors. When she presented her report to me she concluded that it was in her best interest if she became a lacto-ovo-vegetarian because she was still so young and still growing. I agreed. She was a lacto-ovo-vegetarian for about 6 -7 months. She realized how expensive it was becoming and how much work it was for me to basically make two seperate meals most times, she decided to give up the lifestyle... at least that was the reasons she gave. The night she gave up that lifestyle she asked to be taken to her favorite family sit down resteraunt and she ordered the biggest and greasiest bacon cheese burger on the menu. I was LMAO on the inside.

In going through this with my daughter I was forced to research the vegetarian and vegan lifestyle. I find it very interesting even if it's not for me personally. I respect anyone who is that disciplined and strong willed to live those particular lifestyles, especially in a world full of people who think you're a freak for what you believe.

I detest people who are anal about HTML codes on message boards and other things like grammar, spelling, and ALL CAPS. I detest those who have to point such things out in "public." Just send a little message with the corrections and leave it at that. With that said, I guess I could send this via private message... NAW...SCREW IT!

I guess that's one way to look at Pierre Teilhard de Chardin statement. However, I don't believe that his statement is specific to any one Diety, but rather just acknowledges that we are spiritual beings.

Abra, no need to apologize. I enjoyed reading about your sister's vegetarian to vegan journey. I'll post more later. Right now I have to check on dinner.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5309288.html

So what do ya'll think? Was it murder or self defense?

Sweet! Thanks Jess! I appreciate you taking the time to figure that out.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Teilhard_de_Chardin
Fr. Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, S.J. (IPA: [pjɛʀ tejaʀ də ʃaʀdɛ̃]; May 1, 1881 – April 10, 1955) was a French Jesuit priest trained as a paleontologist and a philosopher, and was present at the discovery of Peking Man. Teilhard conceived such ideas as the Omega Point and the Noosphere.

And here is The American Teilhard Association homepage... http://www.teilharddechardin.org/

Very interesting... at least I think so.