Hi Workin4it:

First, I am not a Democrat or a liberal, so I am not sure where you are going with your first statement.

Second, I am not sure what you are crediting as a "success". Foreign policy can't be the success you mean: Allies like Germany and Britain pissed off at us, Russians demonstrating that they can make our president dance at a summit? Oh, begging a third-world dictator to meet with us, not getting anything out of the deal except a photo op, while giving them a demonstration that we will pull our troops out of their way?
Or is "success" the economy? McCain or Obama, I knew either one when elected would have a tough go of righting the tough economy they inherited. If you don't look at the R or D at the end of the presedency before Dear Leader and just look at the results in the market, the market in the past 2 years has continued pretty much in the straight line it was going for the past 8 years. If you take out the big climb right after the election (attributed to the known factor that when the house, senate and executive branch are all under same-party rule, this always happens), Dear leader is riding the previous administration's vector, one can draw a straight line on it.

The debt? Not a success, in fact, the Orange one is getting us more in debt (Up from 17T to 20T?) Who is buying this debt? Chinese? Knowing this guy's love of bankruptcy in business, is he planning on making the US the next Trump U and walking away?

Healthcare? Remember, the "Obamacare" the country saw was the "Romneycare" that Massachusetts was saddled with for years before. Romney came into the MA governorship saying he was going to fix insurance, but got killed by the insurance lobby. Same happened to the US when it got rolled out nationwide. However, as far as US healthcare, the standards Obama put in for hospitals and healthcare infrastructure under ARRA totally revamped how hospitals can care for folks. Massachusetts has the best healthcare infrastructure in the country, and after ARRA, I am not as scared to get sick in other parts of the country. (Trust me, I consulted with hospitals during ARRA, and it was scary how thin the healthcare line was in some areas of the country.)

I am trying to find where this little orange man has had any success.

But your line about "Or is it because you democrats can't cope without the government telling you what to believe" has me most perplexed. Like I said to Moe previously in the thread, it seems that most folks in this country today are too lazy to think for themselves, and are begging for someone to do their thinking for them. I mean, Trump ran a campaign the equivalent of a high school president's election, yelling "free ice cream in the cafeteria". Me, I can THINK, and I have a well-developed BS detector. For instance, how can someone honestly BELIEVE that a wall will stop illegals? China tried that 2000 years ago, it took 100 years to complete the project, and it never kept anyone out. If illegals are the source of our problems, what country did Tim McVeigh, Adam Lanza, Stephen Paddock, Richard Reid, Ted Kazinsky(et al) come from? I think it is YOU, rather than me, who is not able to cope without someone telling you what to believe.

Is this country in trouble? Big time.

I don't know about 8 years of outright lies, but I would agree that the last 2 years of outright lies have been pretty tough to swallow.

You never did answer me: How did the Senator's driver see anything in her briefcase? This is not deflecting, this is your claim, I figured you could back it up

Like I say, logic is the key. And once you use logic, you can't be brainwashed by either side.

This country's current problem is that no one thinks anymore, and are just too lazy to question the lies being served to them. That is how the Russians influenced the election: get enough people saying stupid stuff on social media, and the lazy unthinking folks eventually absorb it from one another, and then they are brainwashed (even the ones too stupid to figure out how to use social media). Make the US people elect a president who is easily outthought by a real politician, and you will get a summit where the US president (who is too clueless to believe he didn't need outside help to win the election) denies his own intelligence agency and publicly kisses your president's ***.

The US is in serious trouble, and only the most brainwashed Kool-aid drinkers still believe Dear leader has an inkling of what he is doing.

Moe,

To believe FoxNews never lies is juvenile. They are as much biased to one side as other news outlets are to other sides. I mean, Hannity for one is full of it, since his lawyer Cohen is under a microscope right now.

My last line using Dear Leader as an example is to show you how your LOGIC is faulty. But since you mention the Russia connection is made up, how to you explain the documented meetings at Trump Tower, and the changes of tune that the White House seems to keep on doing on the topic? There was something shady going on... was it collusion? I for one don't know yet, but there is already EVIDENCE enough to say something shady was going on.

This is about logic. Putting aside your brainwashed attitude that Dems always lie, I will ask you again: how did a DRIVER get a hold of documents? Think it through.

EVERYBODY (Dems, Reps, Independents, etc) needs to start THINKING. We had two crap candidates in the last election, and people are pulling the lever because they hate the other candidate, not because they truly believe in the person they are voting for.

You truly cannot believe that the Republicans are the party of truth... all politicians lie. Of course, egotistical spoiled brat businessmen lie even more than that, but you will say that is deflecting again.

"did the Democrats tell you he never got any sensitive information? How do you know he didn't?"

Dems didn't have to tell me, FoxNews said it in the article, so we know it MUST be true! I mean, FoxNews NEVER tells a lie.

Again, the guy was a DRIVER. Do you think he gassed his passenger, microfilmed the contents of her briefcase, then dropped her off and no one noticed? Did Feinstein even have sensitive intel in the car he was DRIVING?

Let's turn that around:
"Did Trump tell you he never colluded with Russia before the election? How do you know he didn't?"

See how this stupid stuff works?

Wow, I read the article, and that is quite a jump there to say that Feinstein, Obama, and Muller "covered it up".
1) the guy was a DRIVER
2) he was dismissed as soon as they found a link
3) they couldn't prosecute him because he never got any intelligence information

As far as Obama covering it up, where does it say he was even made aware of it? I mean, if I am fired from my job, do you think that the CEO is even aware that I even worked for the company, much less dismissed? Do you think the president knows the dealings of every single senate member's staff?

And was Muller even conducting investigations 5 years ago? Is it in his current assignment of looking into known collusion on an election? Is Muller supposed to look at every personnel change in the past 5 years trying to find a needle in a haystack?

I get it, the guy in the White House is your boy. But when you make such crazy leaps from a staffer being fired after investigation to saying this is a cover-up, you weaken your argument severely. This is the basis of what opponents to Trump dislike, that he and his blind supporters make these wild-*** jumps in logic from a single isolated fact to a full-blown conspiracy.

Look at it this way: If Pro-Trumpers can take one single incident of a staff member being dismissed and create a grand conspiracy out of it, then taking a few isolated incidents that point to Russian meddling should lead (by the same method of jumping) into Trump being executed for treason. Flawed logic works both ways.