adj

Thomas Jefferson

Oh, and I meant, "myself" not my self in my original thread. For some reason I'm not able to edit the word.

OK, I think there is another reason why debate has become so vitriolic over the past ten years. The wide use now of the WWW has allowed us access to a huge library of ideas, writings and information. I am a fan of the Web and I use it often but something else has happened as well. Today if I want to make the argument that Oswald was not the shooter that day in Dallas I can go find information that supports my belief. Again, today we can hold a belief and then go find information that supports it. It does not mean that the information is correct it means only that it agrees with our views.

I'm not aiming that fact at anyone. I've done it (though today I try very hard to debate the philosophy of an idea, the root of the thinking and not necessarily the act itself because I believe war is a symptom of a set of beliefs not the cause of them) and I've noticed that many other engage in it as well.

There is nothing wrong with going to a source to mine information. I am actually impressed with how many people on this forum alone read and search out information as much as they do. But where I see it as a problem is when there is no investigation or skepticism directed at the information. Think that Lipitor is really bad for you, there are sites out there that will tell you that Lipitor will kill you tonight as you sleep. But if you look just to the right of the main article on some of those pages you'll see that they indeed have a solution in the form of a product of their own. This alone does not make their product bad or Lipitor good but there is an ulterior motive to some extent and it simply cannot be ignored.

The same holds true (sorry about the Lipitor reference, I just got back from my doctor's office today and take the medicine to lower cholesterol) for politics. There are conservative sites out there that will rip everything that even leans left. Likewise there are left leaning sites that will trash everything that leans to the right.

What I find interesting is that most of it is in some way (this goes for both sides) in money or some form of institutional power.) If you run a liberal e-magazine obviously you are targeting like-minded individuals. If you were to run ads for National Review you might see your subscription base dry up as they headed for the your competition. The same holds true for conservative publications.

I am truly an independent when it comes to politics. Some have called me a fence sitter, others have said I lack conviction in that I don't take a stand for one set of ideas over another. Those who believe that don't know me and have never read anything I've written but hell, why let facts get in the way. What I do is look at issues as individual issues. I am liberal on some issues and more conservative on others. I am disappointed a great deal with how Republicans have become as "Big Government" as the Democrats they once blasted for the same. And I am disappointed that a number of Democrats view health insurance as a constitutional right.

But above all, I'm an American and I love (and have served) my country. I don't think that entitles me to fly a bigger patriotism banner than the next guy (and many people serve their country with esteem and honor without serving in the military) but I do love my country.

I guess the point of this long rambling post is that we would all probably do a lot better if we looked for truth and found and adopted ideals that were not based so much in blasting what others believe but rather contained within them a modicum of bridge building and cooperation.

I don't own glasses with a rose colored hue. And I don't think for one moment that my opinions are more important or of greater impact than the next person. But I do believe that if we reduced the rancor and hatefulness by even 10% we'd have a few more issues we could discuss and find compromise with. Compromise is not always a good thing. I won't compromise with the guy who breaks in to my house at 2:00 AM. I will protect myself to the fullest. But compromise when it comes to ideals is what we must have if we are to progress not only in realms political but in all realms human.

-Drew

"He that always gives way to others will end in having no principles of his own." Aesop


Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory.
Leonardo DaVinci

"The fellow that agrees with everything you say is either a fool or he is getting ready to skin you." Kin Hubbard

"It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it." Joseph Joubert

People,
people on here,
like to argue and get heated.

Remember the party clubs?
You could have went in there
and discussed the issues
with like minded persons.

No name calling,
no *****ing, and
the Bushies could have set
up an alter to worship
ole' king George!!

The one that was most visited
was the Independent room.
However, they are all
several pages in
the past now!

Admit it,
you love the argueing, disagreeing,
all that!!


Independent Thinker!!!

a debate should not include insults or personal attacks...any one that does this is in the wrong. but I know some believe that a disagreement to beliefs and that person speaking their arguements isn't a personal attack. it's a part of debating

there is right and there is wrong. the cop out answer is that there is a lot of gray areas and people should throw hugs around and except the wrong with a smile.

I dont mind being on the wrong side of an issue politically. I could even care less when someone would try to tak my freedom to express that right (cause they aint stopping doc from talking) the thing that gets me all damn fired up more than anything.

Not mad man, or dragoon lady, or even symbelmyne- they at least show honesty about we're they are coming from. no what gets me are the fake people...the ones that for civility sake will just throw out their beliefs... reminds me of the peter in the bible story. I can not stand a coward.

fake a$$ people want to be nicey nicey to make people like them, nope, not buyin that wormed block of cheese. be real be your self and if someone dont like it and wants to argue with you and your belief, hey screw them- they're not enriching my life.

neenerneenerneeneer

doc...I'm really not saying that. Hope that wasn't directed to me.

I'm stubborn about what I believe in and nothing will change me. won't be childish with the name calling though. And I can respect others opinions too...just well rounded that way

btw neener neener neener back at ya and YES I support the military...AF brat here...and no jokes about the AF.

all our service men our heros in my eyes

sry if u feel i was one of them, no hard intended.

Can anyone say "persecution complex"?

rose that was intended for the group and not shot at you personally.


af huh? well yep no jokes here, its good to be nice to the people that give you a ride, right? haha just kidding. they do more than that.



doc

doc...wanna fight about it

KIDDING

pppuuuurrrrrrzzz ah ccuuuee sson comiplexxx


is that close enough

Civil debate..is that like civil war??

no civil debate is putting live bait in a live catch trap

so the trapper doe none of the killing

I hear what you are saying and won't take your comment personally. My point was simply that sometimes digging a little deeper when dealing with a subject isn't a bad thing. That and I don't think anyone here will accuse me of not expressing an opinion or taking a side.

-Drew

HHmm..and this from the person who stated the following from a different forum


Dragon - you are probably the one who does the most 'inflaming' in the Current Events section than anyone else I have seen here. And when I post an opposing opinion - you refer to me as uncouth and uncivilized, as if you are even *remotely* qualified to do so.

Sorry - you lost any all credibility and respect from my point of view with your constant negative propaganda pushing. You won't even bother trying to see things from a perspective other than your own Camelot.

I love it

I left de bait in the bucket, next to my fishing line...