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Topic: does it really matter
damnitscloudy's photo
Thu 03/20/08 02:49 PM
I don't vote because whoever is put in office is already bought and paid for by bribes to keep things just the way they are; with rich people getting richer and poor people being screwed up the ass laugh

IndianaJoans's photo
Thu 03/20/08 02:58 PM

what kind a democracy is this when the people has no choice, but the delegates?

This is not a democracy. It is a representative republic as mentioned in the pledge of allegiance. A true democracy would not be wanted by anyone.

damnitscloudy's photo
Thu 03/20/08 03:01 PM


what kind a democracy is this when the people has no choice, but the delegates?

This is not a democracy. It is a representative republic as mentioned in the pledge of allegiance. A true democracy would not be wanted by anyone.


Than why is voting considered great and holy? If it means less than cat poop than theres no reason to vote for any wolf in sheep's clothes O_o

IndianaJoans's photo
Thu 03/20/08 03:11 PM
Edited by IndianaJoans on Thu 03/20/08 03:13 PM



what kind a democracy is this when the people has no choice, but the delegates?

This is not a democracy. It is a representative republic as mentioned in the pledge of allegiance. A true democracy would not be wanted by anyone.


Than why is voting considered great and holy? If it means less than cat poop than theres no reason to vote for any wolf in sheep's clothes O_o

That is a question that I can't answer but wish that I could. As I understand it if we did away with the electoral college we would be using the popular vote and the most populated areas are largely democratic. The lemming factor? So there would be no hope for any other party to gain office. A bit confusing trying to find a better way. The question of why vote if our votes don't count is still there for me but I will vote as always.

cutelildevilsmom's photo
Thu 03/20/08 03:14 PM
well while you people are sitting on your asses and not voting think about this:voter apathy is why we have the losers representing us we do.The presidency requires delegates but you also vote in your representatives,your senator,your governor.there are usually referendums on the ballot also.so get off your asses and vote!!voting creates change !Excercise your right to vote!!it takes 5 minutes so out down the playstation!!

cutelildevilsmom's photo
Thu 03/20/08 03:16 PM




what kind a democracy is this when the people has no choice, but the delegates?

This is not a democracy. It is a representative republic as mentioned in the pledge of allegiance. A true democracy would not be wanted by anyone.


Than why is voting considered great and holy? If it means less than cat poop than theres no reason to vote for any wolf in sheep's clothes O_o

That is a question that I can't answer but wish that I could. As I understand it if we did away with the electoral college we would be using the popular vote and the most populated areas are largely democratic. The lemming factor? So there would be no hope for any other party to gain office. A bit confusing trying to find a better way. The question of why vote if our votes don't count is still there for me but I will vote as always.

The electoral college is the great equalizer as some of my friends here have explained.This way Californians aren't always choosing the president bigsmile

IndianaJoans's photo
Thu 03/20/08 03:18 PM

well while you people are sitting on your asses and not voting think about this:voter apathy is why we have the losers representing us we do.The presidency requires delegates but you also vote in your representatives,your senator,your governor.there are usually referendums on the ballot also.so get off your asses and vote!!voting creates change !Excercise your right to vote!!it takes 5 minutes so out down the playstation!!


I am too old for play station and too busy working but my question is why vote in the general election even though I always have if the popular vote doesn't matter?

IndianaJoans's photo
Thu 03/20/08 03:20 PM
So you are saying that if I live in Montana my vte counts for three because of the electoral college? Or does the popular vote count for nothing more than statistical data?

cutelildevilsmom's photo
Thu 03/20/08 03:22 PM
Because it is a right not had in 90 percent of the world and as a woman I can't let the women who fought for us gals to have the right to vote down.
Besides,it makes me feel so patriotic!!flowerforyou

Dragoness's photo
Thu 03/20/08 03:30 PM
Voting is important, all american citizens should exercise this right to speak out one time about what they want. If they are not politically active at any other time then voting they should make sure they participate in our processes here at least that far.

Our government has not been for the people by the people for a long time because PEOPLE DO NOT VOTE!!!!

IndianaJoans's photo
Thu 03/20/08 03:32 PM
Amen!

Dragoness's photo
Thu 03/20/08 03:39 PM
Here is some background on the electoral college and how it works. State popular vote does matter, not national.

Does my vote count? Understanding the electoral college
by David Walbert

No, the electoral college is not the worst team in the ACC. It's the group of people who actually elect the president of the United States. How the electoral college works is one of the more complicated parts of the American electoral process — or can be, at least, when things don't go smoothly. This guide will explain how the electoral college works; discuss the origins and development of the electoral college as some controversial elections; and examine how much your vote actually "weighs" in an election.

Table of contents:
How the electoral college works
Why not a popular vote? (an historical perspective)
The people vs. the electors (more historical perspectives)
Does my vote count?
Notes
I. How the electoral college works
The people of the United States elect a president every four years, but not directly. Here's how it works.

In November of a presidential election year, each state holds an election for president in which all eligible citizens may vote. Citizens vote for a "ticket" of candidates that includes a candidate for president and a candidate for vice president.
The outcome of the vote in each state determines a slate of electors who then, in turn, make the actual choice of president and vice president. Each state has as many electors as it has senators and members of the House of Representatives, for a total of 538. (The District of Columbia gets three electors even though it has no representation in Congress.)
In December, the electors meet in their respective state capitols to cast their ballots for president and vice president. States may or may not require their electors to vote with the popular majority, and they may or may not give all of their electors to the winner of the statewide popular vote. (See "A Work in Progress," below.)
These ballots are opened, counted, and certified by a joint session of Congress in January.
If no candidate wins a majority of the electoral votes or if the top two candidates are tied, the House of Representatives selects a president from among the five candidates with the most votes. Each state's delegation has a single vote. The Senate selects a vice president by the same process. (This hasn't happened since 1876, but it almost happened in 2000.)
What does this mean in practice? It means, as everyone learned or was reminded in 2000, that the candidate who receives the most votes nationwide does not necessarily become president. There is no national election for president, only separate state elections. For a candidate to become president, he or she must win enough state elections to garner a majority of electoral votes. presidential campaigns, therefore, focus on winning states, not on winning a national majority.

It also means that — at least in theory — electors can thwart the popular will and vote for a candidate not supported by the voters of their state. In practice, however, electors are pledged to cast their votes in accordance with the popular vote, and "faithless electors" who go against the popular vote are extremely rare. Had there been a faithless elector in 2000, however, Al Gore might have become president! (See the historical perspective below for more about this.)



I cut this short because it goes on and on about the history and stuff. But electoral vote goes by state popular vote so YOUR VOTE DOES MATTER!!!

Vote people!!!!!


damnitscloudy's photo
Thu 03/20/08 03:51 PM
Ok so say I vote for Snowball for pres (who is an immortal cat). If snowball gets the popular vote in the state than the electoral people vote for her?

Than whats a super delegate and why is hillary and obama sleeping with them!?

Dragoness's photo
Thu 03/20/08 03:56 PM

Ok so say I vote for Snowball for pres (who is an immortal cat). If snowball gets the popular vote in the state than the electoral people vote for her?

Than whats a super delegate and why is hillary and obama sleeping with them!?


My understanding is super delegates only play a role in the primaries. Not the actual general election.

Who is sleeping with them?noway huh laugh

Dragoness's photo
Thu 03/20/08 04:02 PM
"Superdelegate" is an informal term for some of the delegates to the Democratic National Convention, the presidential nominating convention of the United States Democratic Party.

Unlike most convention delegates, the superdelegates are not selected based on the party primaries and caucuses in each U.S. state, in which voters choose among candidates for the party's presidential nomination. Instead, most of the superdelegates are seated automatically, based solely on their status as current or former elected officeholders and party officials. Others are chosen during the primary season. All the superdelegates are free to support any candidate for the nomination.

The Democratic Party rules do not use the term "superdelegate". This article follows the most common media practice in using the term "superdelegate" to refer to unpledged delegates, who fall into two categories:

delegates seated based on other positions they hold, who are formally described (in Rule 9.A) as "unpledged party leader and elected official delegates"[1] (unpledged PLEO delegates); and
additional unpledged delegates selected by each state party, who are formally described (in Rule 9.B) as "unpledged add-on delegates" and who need not hold any party or elected position before their selection as delegates.[1]
Unpledged PLEO delegates should not be confused with pledged PLEOs. Under Rule 9.C, the pledged PLEO slots are allocated to candidates based on the results of the primaries and caucuses.[1] Pledged PLEO delegates are not generally considered superdelegates.

The Republican Party also seats some party officials as delegates without regard to primary or caucus results (see Republican delegate selection), but the term "superdelegate" is most commonly applied only in the Democratic Party.

At the 2008 Democratic National Convention the superdelegates will make up approximately one-fifth of the total number of delegates. The closeness of the race between the leading contenders, Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama, has increased the chance that the superdelegates will play a decisive role in selecting the nominee, a prospect that has caused unease among some Democratic Party leaders.[2]

Contents [hide]
1 Comparison to pledged delegates
2 History
3 In 2008
4 Criticism
5 References
6 External links



[edit] Comparison to pledged delegates
Democratic Party rules distinguish pledged and unpledged delegates. Pledged delegates are selected based on their announced preferences in the contest for the presidential nomination.[1] In the party primary elections and caucuses in each U.S. state, voters express their preference among the contenders for the party’s nomination for President of the United States. Pledged delegates supporting each candidate are chosen in approximate ratio to their candidate’s share of the vote. The party rules state (Rule 12.J): "Delegates elected to the national convention pledged to a presidential candidate shall in all good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them."[1]

By contrast, the unpledged PLEO delegates are seated without regard to their presidential preferences, just by virtue of being current or former elected officeholders and party officials. Many of them have chosen to announce endorsements, but they are not bound in any way. They may support any candidate they wish, including one who has dropped out of the presidential race.[3] The unpledged add-on delegates, who need not be PLEOs, are selected by the state parties after some of the pledged delegates are chosen,[1] but they resemble the unpledged PLEO delegates in being free to vote as they wish.

The process of selecting Democratic Party delegates is described here and here. These delegates fall into these categories:

District-level pledged delegates
At-large pledged delegates
Unpledged PLEO delegates
Unpledged add-on delegates
Pledged PLEO delegates
In both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party, there are a number of state-level unpledged delegates. They are chosen by each state's party through a method of its choosing: convention, caucus, or state party leader vote.[4] State-level unpledged delegates tend to vote for the candidate who received the most votes from their state. But they are not required to do so, and some state parties give them more leeway than others). Many state Republican party delegations are made up entirely of unpledged delegates which gives them the distinction "winner take all".[citation needed] Even with these traditions, unpledged delegates are allowed to change their vote at any time before the national convention. This is why both the Republican and Democratic parties have the potential for a brokered convention.



I pulled this from wikipedia, you know they can be a little off sometimes but this is a pretty good explanation.

adj4u's photo
Thu 03/20/08 05:51 PM

Ok so say I vote for Snowball for pres (who is an immortal cat). If snowball gets the popular vote in the state than the electoral people vote for her?

Than whats a super delegate and why is hillary and obama sleeping with them!?


super delegates are party nomination related

not presidential election relavant

and if micky mouse gets enough votes to screw with the election

then maybe they will start worrying about what the people want

but sitting on yer butt and saying i aint voting is a cop out

besides there are other issues to vote on as well

generic example

were you sittng at home when they passed that tax increase in your distrct and are you complaining about it

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