I love big dogs, but Olive needed a mommy, she almost died. It was me or the needle. No regrets.

Patriotism, as opposed to matriotism?;^]

Nice sentiment.. Really.. just a pretty cool ideal. However.. a closer look, a little deeper, might indicate something different.

The founding fathers were land owners and the wealthy. When they penned the words "We the People", they meant "We the Elite".

These guys were not working class, they were not poor. They were pissed off because England was cutting into their profits. The revolution was paid for by the working class and the poor's spilled blood. When it was over? They assumed power and nothing much changed, other then the manipulation was a little more direct and not from overseas. Things did not change much for the average person.

Not much has changed.

What are you talking about? How has things not changed? We are allowed to vote for who represents us. The founding of this country gave everyone rights. In england at the time only the rich had rights, and yes I know that the same thing was over here, but we grew out of that.

Isn't it admireable that they created something that could develop into what we have today? And you have to look at things in their context. Back then the rights that were given were revolutional, and they knew that things would change so they allowed for expansion to the Constitution. They fought for what they thought was right, and that isn't admireable?

If you look at history in todays perspective then things don't look so amazing, but if you but things in the perspective of that time then things tend to look a lot different.

Yup.. we are now, but...

1776: When this country announced its independence from Britain, voting rights were based on property ownership. This typically meant that those voting were white males over the age of 21 of Protestant religion.
1787: In the newly drafted Constitution, states were given the power to set voting mandates and most were still favorable to white males who owned property.
1830: Many states had dropped religion and property ownership as requirements for voting and with such a large percentage of the population at the polls, political parties were beginning to develop.
1868: The 14th Amendment recognizes African Americans as citizens, giving them the right to vote. However, state officials continue attempts to deny this right.
1870: African Americans were given the right to vote in the 15th Amendment. It prohibited any state or local government from denying that right.
1890: Wyoming becomes the first state to recognize women's right to vote and provide for it in a state constitution.
1913: Voting power is expanded with 17th Amendment, calling for the popular election of US. senators.
1920: The 19th Amendment was added to the Constitution, giving women across the nation the right to vote.
1940: Congress recognizes Native Americans as citizens. However, it wasn't until 1947 that all states granted them the right to vote.
1964: The 24th Amendment declares that no person should be denied the right to vote because they cannot pay a "poll tax."
1965: An amendment to the Voting Rights Act bans the use of literacy tests, poll taxes and other obstacles designed to keep people from voting.
1971: The voting age is lowered to 18.

In other words.. Just shy of 200 years later our Constitution was amended to include 'The People'. All 'The People' who are of military age.

Some would consider this to be a bit slow.

I'm thinking there are many in power today, and a few that are running for that power, that would prefer to roll this back to the late 1700's.

That is certainly a positive spin! What about the Constitutional rights we have lost or have never been for most?
Our Administration, Senate, House and Congress treating 'The Bill of Rights' more like 'The Bill of Suggestions'.
Due process being a dream only the wealthy are entitled to...etc...

Nope.. I'm looking at history from today's perspective.. and I'm quite amazed.

Here is where your understanding of things is wrong. We are allowed to vote for who we THINK represents us. If what you said was true, there would not be such a huge disapproval rating with Congress and the President. The representitives back then were not professional politicians. Today politics is a business and the politicians are in it to make money. If not for themselves then for companies they have ties to. You can't be elected President today without already having made a fortune. Politicians are bought all the time and you wonder why they don't represent us anymore. It's because the people who we THINK will represent our best interests only serve themselves. How do we solve this? Term limits. Oversight reform. Investing more in smaller business and less in big business. Contractor accountability. It is WE THE PEOPLE that elect our representatives but until those representatives understand loyalty to WE THE PEOPLE comes first, or they will not get re-elected, we will continue to have what we have.

Actually, if you look at all Dynasties or upper echelon societies. There has alway's and will alway's be a caste system. We use the term "equal and equality very losely!" No Society or civilization has ever had a total uniform society. To be equal across the board leaves something for the imagination. So, basically the Bill of Right's is not worth the paper it was written on and the word "Patriotism" was a word created by the rich land owner's to instill some kind of semblance of conformity in a rather youthful culture. Now, as far as the 200 year idea and that is not very long! Actually I you look at the Egyptian, Asian, Indian, Grecian, Roman, Germanic, French and English society. Each and one those as they grew into a productive society from inception, inclination, apex of society, then declination. As the world has grown older the technolgy has increased and allowed these societies to destroy themselves and reach all these stages at a much faster rate. I will give example the Greek's lasted somewhere around 800 year's and they precluded the great roman civilization that lasted roughly 600 year's. All the issues that you spoke of that we have endured such as voter's right's, upper clas, Lower class, Landowner's. All these have existed in all societies. It is just that the upper class alway's has the upper-hand and alway's will. The United States as a society is definitely in a state of declination as a great society. Will a society rise up out of ashes to become a new great society. Very doubtful! Reason being we have the ability to destroy the world and mainly, we as American's have become pacified. Ex. When government's failed and society's failed they were overthrowed and new government's rose. Do we have that capability now? Sure we do, but we have to much division of people and to much individuality in America. Another thing is we are a "fat and lazy society" now. Thanks to fast food and video games(computer's). No, Patriotism is just a word that was made up to instill the lowly farmer and field worker to rise up for the rich and protect his varied interest. Only for him to return to his meager wage and farm with hope and prayer that his right's will continue to exist.
I, myself, know loyalty! I served my country for 4 year's in the Army and fought in combat in Panama in Just Cause in 1989. I still really have no idea what we fought for down there. Noreiga wanted to get the canal 10 year's earlier then we wanted to let go of it. We had been friend's with Noreiga for year's, but when America is done with you they are done. Look at Iraq! We funded thier war with Iran for 12 year's! Sadamm pissed us off we were through. Patriotism doesn't truly exist it is a fantasy and an ideal. Word's have been used in every culture over the year's to get the poor man to fight for the rich. Has it worked? Of course it has, because the poor man doesn't have much choice, but to fight. He is fighting for his very existence. Where as the rich man is fighting for generation's of dominance and aristocracy. Enuff said

People might disagree
with me, but a true
patriot is or has put
their money where their
mouth is.

In other words, joined
the military to serve
their country or else
served the government
in some capacity.

There are a lot of
people who say they
are patriots, but
how many of them,
when push comes
to shove, would
give their life
for their country?

Patriotism is more
than just a bumper
sticker, empty slogan
or flag attached to
a car aerial.

BigCurt_31...
You closed your diatribe with the words "Enough said". But it's not enough said. When you make your case for the problems you see today and do not offer any solution, you are doing nothing more than b*tching and moaning. I salute your service to our country. That is the essence of patritotism. When I read your words I get a sense that you feel betrayed by your country because it has not met your expectations. Being a fellow veterern of our armed forces, you have ever right to have high expectations for our country. Let me assure you the situation is not hopeless. This countries government is not what makes it great, it is it's people that make it great. The power of the people can fix what is wrong today. The solutions are out there among the people. I respect your opinion so be heard and offer solutions. You have identified the problem. What are you going to do about it?

Our Administration, Senate, House and Congress treating 'The Bill of Rights' more like 'The Bill of Suggestions'.
Due process being a dream only the wealthy are entitled to...etc...


Well we are backsliding some in this respect.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin

Yes, Term limits , so that there could NEVER be such a thing as a career politician. Career politicians are not really :WE THE PEOPLE, They seem to be something else. The More often the elections the better, One year terms might even be better, it would remind them that they are temporary and are the servants , not the Masters. We The People are supposed to be the BOSS over them!!.They are supposed to be working for us, not the other way around.

I think they should also make no more than median income for thier district. Politics should not be a career, but a service.

What it is the Counstitution is a good thing , But we have enough Dual Citizens(Flies in the oinment) in govt to make it stink like it was spoiled, like what happens when you get a few stinking flies in a good oinment, just ruins the whole batch of oinment.

Yes, I suppose if Hillary got in there and you supported her you might be a MATRIOT (Smiles)

What do you mean by "dual citizens in govt"? Please explain. I have seen you write this many times and I fail to understand your point. I have some knowledge of the government security clearance process and dual citizenship is not tolerated in that process. Denouncing the dual citizenship is required before a security clearance is approved. Please, smo... explain what you mean.

Hi Mrtxstar

I'll IM you so we don't hijack the thread.

a true patriot realizes the rights of the few

over ride the wants of the majority

and knows the corporations are supposed to be here

for the convenience of the people

not the other way around as most in washington think

I agree with what
a lot of what BigCurt_31
and (some) of what smo
wrote.

There is an aristocracy
in this country, a small
percentage who controls
the wealth and resources
of this land.

They donate to politicians
and have specials PACs,
K Street and other means
of keeping their control.

And not only keeping it,
expanding it as well.

Their motives are often
not altruistic, but purely
greed.

The average citizen has
little to say about this.

Oh, they can complain
to their congressman,
senator or other elected
official, if they're even
listening, but such pleas
often fall on deaf ears,
especially if the politicians
are often being paid off
by these same individuals.

Or the average citizen
can vote, and even that
process is somewhat tainted.

It often comes down
to the candidate with
the most money, prestige
or the one who looks
good on camera.

And the media controls
access.

For instance,
Dennis Kucinich
was blocked from the
Democratic debate
by MSNBC.

Why?

Just because he
wasn't one of the
frontrunners!

Now I ask you,
should not being
one of the frontrunners
bar someone from
open debate of
the issues with
the other candidates?

Granted average citizens
have a lot more freedom
than someone in say,
the Congo, but for someone
who prides themselves
on being a democratic
Republic we still have
a long way to go before
the average citizen can
be heard!