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| Topic: Apostles and Prophets | |
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the word is not to be sold. anything in wisdom that Yahweh may of showed you was freely given and you are to do the same.. The buy the truth if you notice is speaking about listening to your parents. The buying is your parents. Taking care of them . Yahshua spoke of this and how the pharasees polluted this concept.. Matt 15:3-9 3 He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of Yahweh because of your tradition? 4 For Yahweh commanded, saying, 'Honor your father and your mother '; and, 'He who curses father or mother , let him be put to death.' 5 But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother ,"Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to Yahweh" — 6 then he need not honor his father or mother .' Thus you have made the commandment of Yahweh of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 8 "These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'" NKJV This buy in this scripture is speaking of taking care of your parents when they are old. Hold onto the wisdom they have shown you. Do not sell it as it was freely given to you. As Yahshua also says. The other is a prophecy of the shepards at the end of this age. They will do as they are doing trying to get every dollar out of you in the name of Yahweh. But they are decietfull and could care less about your salvation.you might say. He goes on and explains what thier end will be. I hope that is clearer. I know those are some hard sayings of the scriptures.. Blessings..Miles The Word says to stand not in the counsel of the ungodly. Tell me, where shall we "buy the truth"? From the ungodly? Isn't the workman worthy of his hire and the oxen that treads the field permitted to eat of the harvest? Believe me when I say I am completely appalled at the heresy regarding the church and money. However, I am not completely against ministries receiving funds to pay for their responsibilities. Are you insinuating that my wife was in agreement with scripture by leaving me to follow her mothers religion? Isn't the scripture clear that says to leave father and mother and cleave unto your spouse? That Christ is the head of the church and the husband is the head of the wife? Where do the mothers and fathers come in? Or, Titus 2:3-6, "The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed."? If this is the case, are you sure you're not taking things a bit out of context? |
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The truth is not to be sold period..
Matt 10:7-15 7 And as you go, preach, saying,'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food. 11 "Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there till you go out. 12 And when you go into a household, greet it. 13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city! NKJV I was not saying that you should do anything with the unholy.What i was refering to about the shepards is that is a prophecy of what they will do and what will happen to them. Yahshua speaks of the shepards which the 70 were that went out as an example for us to freely give. The word is not for sell. Tithing is set up for the shepards thier is no need for them to ask for money. Paul speaks of he will not take money.. 1 Cor 9:15-18 15 But I have used none of these things, nor have I written these things that it should be done so to me; for it would be better for me to die than that anyone should make my boasting void. 16 For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for necessity is laid upon me; yes, woe is me if I do not preach the gospel! 17 For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have been entrusted with a stewardship. 18 What is my reward then? That when I preach the gospel, I may present the gospel of Messiah without charge, that I may not abuse my authority in the gospel. NKJV I was not accusating anything . All i was speaking of is the shepards who abuse thier power. Greed is what they are really about. I believe we see this on TV at least all the time.. Blessings..Miles |
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Also concerning parents this is in complete agreemant of what Yahshua said about making the commandment void.
1 Tim 5:3-4 Honor widows who are really widows. 4 But if any widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show piety at home and to repay their parents; for this is good and acceptable before Yahweh. NKJV What i said is the pharasees were doing this as if this was a gift to Yahweh. When it was thier duty to take care of thier elderly parents. The spirit tells us this means more than widows. They may of been claiming that the money spent on thier parents was thier tithe. people do the same today.. Blessings....Miles |
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Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Sat 01/12/08 08:46 PM
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Perhaps wrote:
The Word says to stand not in the counsel of the ungodly. Tell me, where shall we "buy the truth"? - the point that Miles was making was that truth is given freely, out of love, with concern and faith that it will be accepted. But a child who twists the truth they were freely given, and uses it to make a profit is not living by the standards taught. What's worse is giving the parents money, especially money made by 'selling' the truth that the child was given freely. In their old age parents do not want that kind of comfort their real need is to find comfort WITH the child (and in the Child). Making payment for the truth that was extended freely, is not only disrespectful, it is considered payment to relieve the guilt of the child who is not living the truth as it was taught. Does that make more sense? Miles and I pretty much agree that the scent of those in question, in the OP, is one of something spoiled. |
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Perhaps wrote: The Word says to stand not in the counsel of the ungodly. Tell me, where shall we "buy the truth"? - the point that Miles was making was that truth is given freely, out of love, with concern and faith that it will be accepted. But a child who twists the truth they were freely given, and uses it to make a profit is not living by the standards taught. What's worse is giving the parents money, especially money made by 'selling' the truth that the child was given freely. In their old age parents do not want that kind of comfort their real need is to find comfort WITH the child (and in the Child). Making payment for the truth that was extended freely, is not only disrespectful, it is considered payment to relieve the guilt of the child who is not living the truth as it was taught. Does that make more sense? Miles and I pretty much agree that the scent of those in question, in the OP, is one of something spoiled. If "OP" means "Original Post" then I might. However, the context of this discussion seemed to have taken a side road, or maybe it's just that I'm getting tired. Thanks for explaining. |
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Tiered, yes, I know I am. Long day - rest well!
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Okay, new day. Rested. I looked through the thread and what I see is a diversion from the subject at hand.
Miles, Red, I'm not 100% in agreement with CultWatch either for reasons that are not necessary to elaborate upon within this post. However, the piece which I included in this thread relates to the subject at hand and is accurate. Considering the source of that information is relevant, I agree, however let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. I stumbled upon that piece only yesterday so it's not that I'm basing this discussion solely on what I have read there. I have studied this movement for a number of years now and find information from a multitude of places. The subject is C. Peter Wagner and the Apostolic/Prophetic movement and how it has affected us. The concern is that many Protestant churches are unknowingly subjected to the ideologies of this movement and people are being blind sided. |
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Good Morning Perhaps,
The subject is C. Peter Wagner and the Apostolic/Prophetic movement and how it has affected us. The concern is that many Protestant churches are unknowingly subjected to the ideologies of this movement and people are being blind sided. I must apologise if I misread, I thought we WERE discussing the A/P movement. Their intention is not to lead by example, but to 'sell their' truth. I believe that is what Miles was saying. Like many other ‘Christians’, these people have developed ideas and created doctrine based on their interpretations of the Bible. But what they have put together is not free and it is not given with love, but rather an underlying agenda. That agenda is the same one that was mapped out by the original Catholic Church. To bring the masses into the fold, to set up governing bodies, for the purpose of ‘power’ and greed. To TEACH the word, as they want it believed, to the masses. Religion for sale! As for cultwatch: I occasionally monitor that site, especially when certain bills and legislature are being considered by state or the federal government. Cultwatch is the 'extreme' sort of atheist loud mouth, just as the Westboro Baptist Church is the ‘extreme’ sort of Christian loud mouth. Both are full of lies and bigotry, but how they display their beliefs has come from some source. So I follow Cultwatch, and when I see something that may be of interest to the plight of the legislature being considered, I follow it to its source. Wikipedia is much the same way; it is not a source one can consider trustworthy and accurate, but it is, often, a quick lead to other more reputable sources. In a world where ‘information’ is only a few keystrokes away, we must all become aware of what we read. To take the initiative to follow all leads from a source to it’s root before making final judgment, that will guide our course of action. I do not believe the C.Peter Wagner A/P movement to have anything new, of value, to offer Christians or society. They are merely just another ‘store’ with a new gimmick, to ‘sell’ its wares. |
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Good post Red, thank you.
Money is the root but I think it maybe more like the carrot for most. I spent 20 years in the "Pentecostal/charismatic" movement and have seen first hand the things that motivate people who are following this. And, it's not just the people at the lower levels, the ones at the top have their eyes on the same thing. Not money. In their minds, money is only a by-product and not the goal. It is only one of the blessings expected from their dedication to God. "Prosperity" is more encompassing than just money for them. Prospering in all aspects of life, and especially in the spiritual realm. To focus this discussion on money alone would miss the mark. I speak from experience and it's refreshing to find information out their that describes things better than I can articulate them myself. More important and desirable, is spiritual power. Having the ability to move God's hand to see miracles and healings. Wagner and his group believe these are the last days and the church is to rule and establish Christ's kingdom prior to the return of the Lord. Unfortunately, it is quite common to be taught to close your ears to anything contrary. My speaking openly here marks me in a very negative sense to them, as "speaking against the prophets". My wife was led to divorce me for this reason. Christians involved in this movement cannot discuss anything contrary, openly or objectively and ultimately will fight against anyone who does. Other than "the A/P" movement, we're also dealing with, "Dominionism", "Prosperity Gospel", "Manifest Sons of God", "Latter Rain"... |
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I love websites, you can get a real 'feel' from them. Of course all new ministries require some capitol, I mean how else can they travel and 'share' thier epiphanies? There are supplies to purchase, pamphlets to print, flights, hotels and 'training' and somewhere there MUST be a 'church affiliated' site, right. I mean even Jesus and the original apostles required cash, didn't they? Strange, I don't remember them begging, how did they come the massive amounts of cash required to spread "the word"? Well anyway, this affiliation doesn't seem to require too much, only a humble place to call home. from their web-site Growing Pains Well, this is the big picture. One of the urgent needs we have as a consequence of the urgent assignments that God keeps giving us is more office and classroom space. We cannot advance much in our present facilities. We are asking God for a large WLI/GHM campus that will allow us to move ahead with the freedom that we feel we need. We have located a 56-acre parcel of prime real estate, and we have made a down payment on it. However, we need $8 million dollars by October 15, and after that we will need massive funding to build offices, classrooms, and a conference center. When God provides all of that, the picture will be much bigger! Don't forget, there is a direct way to 'donate' just visit the web-site. Ah, Red, I just realized the "Growing Pains" quote comes from Wagners website. I wonder if they ever got their $8 mil? I'll try to find out. |
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Perhaps, I'm sorry to hear about your marriage. It seems that no matter what our beliefs are, we must ultimately remain true to ourselves in order to be fit for society, even fit to live with ourselves.
I have never been against any particular 'faith', it is only organized religion that I have a problem with, and only when they 'actively' seek to uphold, continue or propagate judgement against others. Active meaning, outwardly exhibiting bias and bigotry, even to the extreme of legalizing their judgments in the laws of society. So I surf the net and check out all the 'new' ideas of faith, something that will attract the disenchanted, and be a worthy place for 'personal' commitment, while still believing that every person has the right to 'choose', to be allowed to fail, to be free to exercise their own beliefs and follow whatever path their choices direct them to. There is only ONE reason to 'convert' anyone, and that reason is that judgment has been passed. That judgment says "We are right/righteous, all others are wrong". Take care! |
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