It is my understanding that part of the PUA playbook includes techniques for approaching a woman and making conversation. Even assuming that the PUA's motivation is dishonest or ungentlemanly (and I don't believe that it always is), I don't understand why I couldn't benefit from learning how pickup artists engage women in conversation and keep their interest.

Yokoke, allow me to flatter myself and suppose that I am one of the genuine, decent guys whom you reference. You say that this stuff is excrement; could you elaborate? I realize fully that life is not a game, but as I've noted, I could use some pointers because I'm not meeting any people by sitting alone and keeping my head down.

It is my understanding that part of the PUA playbook includes techniques for approaching a woman and making conversation. Even assuming that the PUA's motivation is dishonest or ungentlemanly (and I don't believe that it always is), I don't understand why I couldn't benefit from learning how pickup artists engage women in conversation and keep their interest.

Conventional wisdom states that you just need to be yourself and be comfortable in your own skin. My experience, however, suggests otherwise. I've been ignored or experienced ridicule far too often, even among so-called adults, to believe that.

There is also the unfortunate possibility that even if maturity and wisdom reveal that life is not a game, that other people my age may still be treating it that way. I've been told that it would be better to ask a woman if she'd like to go back to my apartment and fornicate than to ask her a more genuine question like whether she likes Russian literature, whether she'd like to join me for cake and coffee, or whether she enjoys board games.

Yokoke, allow me to flatter myself and suppose that I am one of the genuine, decent guys whom you reference. You say that this stuff is excrement; could you elaborate? I realize fully that life is not a game, but as I've noted, I could use some pointers because I'm not meeting any people by sitting alone and keeping my head down.

It is my understanding that part of the PUA playbook includes techniques for approaching a woman and making conversation. Even assuming that the PUA's motivation is dishonest or ungentlemanly (and I don't believe that it always is), I don't understand why I couldn't benefit from learning how pickup artists engage women in conversation and keep their interest.

Conventional wisdom states that you just need to be yourself and be comfortable in your own skin. My experience, however, suggests otherwise. I've been ignored or experienced ridicule far too often, even among so-called adults, to believe that.

There is also the unfortunate possibility that even if maturity and wisdom reveal that life is not a game, that other people my age may still be treating it that way. I've been told that it would be better to ask a woman if she'd like to go back to my apartment and fornicate than to ask her a more genuine question like whether she likes Russian literature, whether she'd like to join me for cake and coffee, or whether she enjoys board games.

Yokoke, allow me to flatter myself and suppose that I am one of the genuine, decent guys whom you reference. You say that this stuff is excrement; could you elaborate? I realize fully that life is not a game, but as I've noted, I could use some pointers because I'm not meeting any people by sitting alone and keeping my head down.

It is my understanding that part of the PUA playbook includes techniques for approaching a woman and making conversation. Even assuming that the PUA's motivation is dishonest or ungentlemanly (and I don't believe that it always is), I don't understand why I couldn't benefit from learning how pickup artists engage women in conversation and keep their interest.

Conventional wisdom states that you just need to be yourself and be comfortable in your own skin. My experience, however, suggests otherwise. I've been ignored or experienced ridicule far too often, even among so-called adults, to believe that.

There is also the unfortunate possibility that even if maturity and wisdom reveal that life is not a game, that other people my age may still be treating it that way. I've been told that it would be better to ask a woman if she'd like to go back to my apartment and fornicate than to ask her a more genuine question like whether she likes Russian literature, whether she'd like to join me for cake and coffee, or whether she enjoys board games.

now there's a compliment worth receiving ty
may i also say that i like the kind of lively you and brain
and well you know all the others too who "bring it" to this
site.

it's different - like a different kind of superluminescent
billboard. it is the kind of happenin that is sometimes
worth happenin

lol in David D's Mastery program, he invited both Mystery and Tyler as guest speakers and they ended up having an AMOGing duel on stage
I've only heard about this in reviews - I haven't actually seen it, but I would like to.

Hahaha, I'd love to see that. Did they say who won? I know Tyler spent a lot of time learning how to beat AMOGs, but I think Mystery would be better at it. He's got better frame control

wow that was a 6.5 on the jsh richter scale...

When I saw the name "Mike Long," I did some quick Googling. Holy crap, if it's not the same Mike Long who plays (played?) Magic: The Gathering and got caught cheating during a high-profile event. What a crazy, small world.

No Eph go ahead and listen to these 18 year olds.... rather than trusting yourself and being yourself.... a PickUpArtist knows how to blow SMOKE and up which ORFICE...said it before and will say it again and if females are gullible to become notches and a STD stat and then come on the boards and piss and moan because they treated her this way and that way....

Choices....

trust your heart and your gut instinct....

the player and pua scams are for kids....

Adults are looking for mature and real relationships...

You are going to get what you put out.... laws of the universe work that way....

What does that Mike Long look like? The one Mystery teamed with is a balding guy with glasses and is an internet marketer.

Is it that you believe that any _method_ for engaging women is inherently dishonest or that the methods used by pickup artists in particular are dishonest? I ask because the fact of the matter is, I'm going to use need _some sort_ of a method. I'm here at this web site in the first place because I have severe problems even getting off my barstool and saying hello.

You say to trust my heart and my gut, but that, unfortunately, is a "death sentence" to me. My heart and my gut tell me that talking to people I don't know is pointless. Other people, after all, have better things to do than engage in conversation with strangers at bars. I feel nothing but fear and dread at the thought of interrupting somebody and imposing upon them with the assumption that they'd like to talk to me. (You can TELL me that this isn't the case, and I KNOW that this isn't the case, but I'm just letting you know how things stand when I let myself be ruled by my heart and my gut.)

Is it that you believe that any _method_ for engaging women is inherently dishonest or that the methods used by pickup artists in particular are dishonest? I ask because the fact of the matter is, I'm going to use need _some sort_ of a method. I'm here at this web site in the first place because I have severe problems even getting off my barstool and saying hello.

You say to trust my heart and my gut, but that, unfortunately, is a "death sentence" to me. My heart and my gut tell me that talking to people I don't know is pointless. Other people, after all, have better things to do than engage in conversation with strangers at bars. I feel nothing but fear and dread at the thought of interrupting somebody and imposing upon them with the assumption that they'd like to talk to me. (You can TELL me that this isn't the case, and I KNOW that this isn't the case, but I'm just letting you know how things stand when I let myself be ruled by my heart and my gut.)

The methods of a PUA are dishonest and it is a game... I think it's ludicrous PUA methods involve going to date sites and using numerous ids and screw with females till you get comfortable talking to a female....and comfortable with your game.

So much talk about the player's manual.... a player's manual is commonly associated with sports and games.

Negative self talk is an example of how we limit ourselves and stop any hope of a positive outcome by convincing ourselves that the negative view is appropriate. It almost certainly is not and serves no purpose other than confirming your fears and preventing you from daring to step out into the unknown, where success lives and you also can find yourself Eph.

http://www.more-selfesteem.com/self_confidence_tips.htm
http://www.more-selfesteem.com/books1.htm