Judaism has no concept of "hell". And the translations from the original scriptures to ours now has been kind of misleading. Hell is nothing but the grave of sort, weather that be in the ground or in the sea. And never really put this into perspective, but not one person has gone to Heaven since the beginning of time.


John 3:13

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


Words translated into hell in our modern bible

- Sheol = the abode of the dead
- Gehenna = was a valley where they put their garbage eg., the dump and essentially placed dead body's as well
- Hades = the grave or the pit.

Anyone and everyone that has ever existed is in one of those, depending on the word you wish to use. Thus why we are later told -


Revelation 20:13

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.


Notice the "sea" gave up it's dead and "hell" gave up it's dead for judgement, thus we see the one's in graves or the one's that ended up in the ocean.

I want your guesses perspective please, because my preacher and I disagree on this. And I have a strong feeling inside saying I'm right and he's wrong. He believes yes your "body" may go to hell or any various use of any of the words referenced, but your spirit goes straight to Heaven if you're "saved". I find error in this, as I don't know any verse that says that. And he used the example -


Luke 23:43

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Only problem/difficulty with that is that language didn't use punctuation eg., commas, periods, ect. So in fact he could have said

"Verily I say up thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Because also it never references Jesus returning to his Father or "paradise" THAT day. It wasn't till 3 days after his burial that he returned to the Father, but no other references of anyone going along with him in those scriptures.

And also if we "immediately" go to Heaven or not as I've been proposed, then why does the following happen prior to judgement?


Revelation 20:13

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Yep, modern English versions of the Bible have fewer mentions of Hell.

Revelation 20:13, English Standard Version: "And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done."

Revelation 20:13, New International Version: "The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done."

Revelation 20:13, Holman Christian Standard Bible: "Then the sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead; all were judged according to their works."

Anyway, it is what Revelation 20:14-15 says about the lake of fire that matters.

The lake of fire is what people think of when they read or hear the Norse name Hell.



By the way, there really is a place called Hell. It is in Michigan.

True and ironically, hell and lake of fire are two totally different place, heck hell is thrown into the lake of fire lol. Just thought I'd bring it up here, as my preacher has said and speaks of things I never heard of or read through the scriptures. He says since he is "saved" he will immediately go to Heaven. Which makes no sense to me, as Jesus has said "no one has ascended to Heaven"... so why would "he" be more special then the previous people, and all the evidence even original word meanings of Hell point towards if we die on the face of this Earth we will go to "hell" eg., the grave in the ground or at sea. Then rise when the second coming happens. But he refuses to accept that and argues with me, I don't argue religion/God. So I left it at that. But just his persistence on it makes me wonder if I'm missing something scripturaly based or not and why I come to Mingle2 to hopefully find solid scriptural evidence on either side outside of what I've posted/mentioned.

Also would like to add, not 100% if it's scriptural based, but "Heaven" was made for God and the angels. And Earth or more precisely the Garden of Eden was made for man. Thus after judgement Heaven and Earth are done away with and a new Heaven and Earth are created, joined together, so that man may reside with God once again. But no verses that I am aware of state we will, have been, or are going to go to the present Heaven... as again it is made for God and the angels.

When one says that one will immediately go to Heaven, it could mean that one will certainly not be thrown into the lake of fire.

To me, that is what matters.

Anyway, you are free to disagree with a preacher if you have biblical support for your disagreement.

True, not putting the preacher down in any way whatsoever. Just in search of more specific verses along the lines. Because since he claims a "saved" Christian automatically goes to Heaven the "Hell gave up the dead" is not in reference to a Christian, for in his eyes they would already be in Heaven, the paradise. He claims that is a "second chance" for the "lost" to redeem themselves through judgement. But that goes against any and all scriptures that I know of. And in search of the specific verses that would verify this. So I don't just return to him with the same old verses already shown to him.... I think personally a couple of the biggest factors in this in his eyes, is once someone is set in their beliefs, they are set. Especially on the lines of a preacher. Now here comes a guy half his age and what not, fairly new to the church that tells him differently.

And again he uses that verse of when the thief was on the cross, and Jesus says

Luke 23:43

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Not putting into consideration again in the original language they didn't have punctuation.

But there is definite error in this thinking. As Jesus didn't return to the paradise that day, wasn't till 3 days after being in the tomb. But then again as I said he tries to say at death you automatically go to either, which again makes no sense. And I truly feel "called" to show him his error that I see... but can't grasp the verses to share with him to show him differently.

Kind of reminds me of the baptists that I've personally had dealings with.. once you're saved, you're saved... no matter what... and again there's error in that thinking to a degree, there will be a "judgement" and God doesn't say he'll only judge the lost and the "saved" have a green card.

Been thinking to share this today and found this topic here. Not a coincidence.
Since 2002, used to understand hell as a place of Lake of fire where the fire never quench eternally and full of unending chatering and gnashing of teeth where lost souls/unrepented suffer the punishment of God eternally.

Then early this year met a man who explain to me it actually a grave= paradise, not a lake of fire. Lake of fire describe in the Bible is real, but it's not call hell.