Zero wrote:
“.. we have had to change OUR culture to adapt to THEM.. in my opinion..”

I won’t debate what trigged the law because I honestly don’t know. However, I can’t say that I agree that we had to change anything. It was always in our constitution that no religion should be sponsored by the state. A religion that uses public-funded facilities to push it’s agenda would basically be sponsored and endorsed by the state. And lets face it, the religion in question is KNOWN for being pushy. Their agenda is to ‘save’ the world which means to convert everyone to their religion.

So we were violating our own constitution by doing that anyway. If it take immigrants to wake us up to our own folly then maybe this is a good thing.

They’ll keep us honest!

If thats the case then abra the pledge of allegiance should not be said at all in schools....It was written for a very specific reason at the time and taking out any of it.....is just wrong.

The same applies in taking God out of the coins of this great nation....it was founded on the grounds of God and should stay that way.

The first part of the Declaration of Independance

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —

Thanks Ruth for this post....awesome.

Just to clarify a point that several mentioned- "God" was NOT in the ORIGINAL pledge of allegiance.

I'm reposting part of what I posted in another thread because I dislike seeing people repeating this incorrect information...

Re the Pledge of Alegiance!! So few know the origin and history of our pledge. This dismays me because the original Pledge of Alligence did not include the words "under god". Those words were added later (See below details). So the Pledge was a secular speech intended only to show allegience to this nation, not to any deity. Below is a history of the pledge and the changes it has undegone (there are many source for this info, the below is from religious tolerence.org).

"Between 1924 and 1954, the Pledge of Allegiance was worded:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In 1954, during the McCarthy era and communism scare, Congress passed a bill, which was signed into law, to add the words "under God." The current Pledge reads:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

The Pledge is recited, on average, tens of millions of times a day -- largely by students in schools across America.

On 2002-JUN-26, a three judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals voted 2 to 1 to declare the Pledge unconstitutional because of the addition of the phrase "under God." This decision only affects the states of AK, AZ, CA, HI, ID, MT, NV, OR and WA. However, the ruling will only take effect if it is upheld on appeal. The decision may be appealed to the entire 9th U.S. Circuit Court, or to the U.S. Supreme Court.

It is interesting to note that this decision happened to occur one day after the 40th anniversary of the Engel v. Vitale decision by the U.S. Supreme Court, which declared unconstitutional the inclusion of state-sponsored school prayer as a part of instruction in public schools. The Texas Justice Foundation had declared that anniversary a day of mourning. 1,2



History of the Pledge of Allegiance:

The Pledge was originally written in 1892-AUG by Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931). He was an American, a Baptist minister, and an active Socialist. He included some of the concepts of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, who wrote a number of socialist utopian novels, such as Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897). In its original form, it read:

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

It was first published in a children's magazine Youth's Companion, in 1892 to celebrate the 400th anniversary of Columbus' arrival in the Americas. 4 The word "to" was added before "the Republic" in 1892-OCT. He considered including the word "equality" in the pledge, but decided against it because he knew that many Americans at the time were opposed to equality for women and African-Americans. Opposition to equality continues today; a sizeable minority of American adults remain opposed to equal rights for women, gays and lesbians.

By 1924, the "National Flag Conference, under the leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Francis Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored." 3

Most Jehovah's Witness children refuse to acknowledge the flag. In 1940, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that school boards could compel them to recite the Pledge. The court reversed itself three years later. 4

In 1953, the Roman Catholic men's group, the Knights of Columbus mounted a campaign to add the words "under God" to the Pledge. The nation was suffering through the height of the cold war, and the McCarthy communist witch hunt. Partly in reaction to these factors, a reported 15 resolutions were initiated in Congress to change the pledge. They got nowhere until Rev. George Docherty (1911 - ) preached a sermon that was attended by President Eisenhower and the national press corps on 1954-FEB-7. His sermon said in part: "Apart from the mention of the phrase 'the United States of America,' it could be the pledge of any republic. In fact, I could hear little Muscovites repeat a similar pledge to their hammer-and-sickle flag in Moscow." After the service, President Eisenhower said that he agreed with the sermon. In the following weeks, the news spread, and public opinion grew. Three days later, Senator Homer Ferguson, (R-MI), sponsored a bill to add God to the Pledge. It was approved as a joint resolution 1954-JUN-8. It was signed into law on Flag Day, JUN-14. President Eisenhower said at the time: "From this day forward, the millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty." 4 With the addition of "under God" to the Pledge, it became both "a patriotic oath and a public prayer...Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change." 3

The change was partly motivated by a desire to differentiate between communism, which promotes Atheism, and Western capitalistic democracies, which were at least nominally Christian. The phrase "Atheistic Communists" has been repeated so many times that the public has linked Atheism with communism; the two are often considered synonymous. Many consider Atheism as unpatriotic and "un-American" as is communism.

Most communists, worldwide, are Atheists. But, in North America, the reverse is not true; most Atheists are non-communists. Although there are many Atheistic and Humanistic legislators at the federal and state levels, few if any are willing to reveal their beliefs, because of the intense prejudice against these belief systems.

The U.S. Supreme Court declined to review this change to the Pledge. The Court has commented in passing on the motto saying that: "[o]ur previous opinions have considered in dicta the motto and the pledge [of allegiance], characterizing them as consistent with the proposition that government may not communicate an endorsement of religious belief." [Allegheny, 492 U.S.]"

I know that was long but I think if you're going to stand up and say something, over and over again, with your hand on your heart, you should be aware of what it means.... I say the original pledge because I although I believe in God and am not offended by mention of a god, I also believe strongly in seperation of church and state and this crosses a line towards theocracy for me.

Peace.

Hi There Catch, Yea this was done. Guess you sorta missed the the thread a further down the page 'Tennesse Team'.

Anyway, in case anyone is still looking at this thread, this county may have been founded by 'some' theists, but it was NEVER their intention to include any religious doctrine in the laws.

It was only their intension that poeple be free to follow whatever path of faith dictated to their heart.

To assume that this country was, is , or ever will be guided by the prinicples of Christianity is a grossly egotistical and imperical view.

Of course in all fairness, I could concede that ignorance may have a hand in such assumptions.

SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE WAS NEVER INTENDED TO ELIMINATE THE CHURCH, BUT RATHER FROM THE GOVERNMENT DICTATING A RELIGION. I wonder what those who would do away with God in schools, ect are afraid of?
Its ok to be jewish... we all say ahhh in unison...
Its ok to believe in witchcraft... even though its a religion, we raise our eyebrows and say oh well.
Its ok to be athiest... we cannot speak out against these people...that would just be wrong.
Its ok to be muslem, even though many are our enemies we wouldent want to profile them...
Bu go to school with a bible or i love jesus t shirt and you will be persecuted. WHY?

I would not support any prayer in school, whether it was christian, wiccan, islamic, etc. e.g. your many examples....

What am I "afraid of" I'm afraid that children will be intimidated and coerced into particapating in religions that their parents do not wish them to be involved with because their teachers ask them to do so....

and to ignore the power of peer pressure and social stigmas for children is idiotic. Children kill themselves or other children because of social pressure... how can your discount the pressure that would be put on the minority's by the majority under a program of prayer in school?

How is leading prayers in a specific religion in a public school NOT the government dictating religion??

And if it is ok to have prayer in school then I assume that means you support the Wiccan teachers right to ask all her students to pray with her?

yah we wouldent want morals in school.... what was i thinking?

Prayer is not necessary to teach morals.

All moral can be taught as just the right thing to do, not in association with any particular god. It's not even necessary to threaten children IMO, most are eager to please and do the right thing.

When I teach children not to litter I don't have to tell them it's because a mean god will send them to hell if they do or similar- I just tell them that it's not good for the animals that live in the water and that's enough for them to not want to do it.

right. lets not hurt thier feelings by correcting them. It might damage thier psyce.

i think its much more simple.. we fear that what we are doing wrong might actually BE wrong. BETTER TO RIDICULE AND SHOOT THE MESSANGER THAN to accept our own faults.