Topic: NYPD cop kills bystander after shooting at suspect holding | |
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A weapons sting operation went terribly wrong when an undercover NYPD officer, who was threatened with a replica gun by a robber, shot and killed a 61-year-old passerby instead of disabling the 'gunman.'
The bystander, identified as Felix Kumi, died of two torso wounds on Saturday, police said. The gunman had attempted to rob the undercover officer just as he was about to buy a gun from a suspected illegal arms dealer in a vehicle as part of the Friday operation. The robber was reportedly hit three times as he was running away. The number of hits, however, was a far cry from the total number of shots fired by the cop from NYPD's Firearms Investigations Unit. According to witness reports and police statements cited by the New York Daily News, the officer fired at the fleeing robber anywhere between 11 and 21 shots. As it turned out, the gunman, Alvin Smothers, 37, had threatened the cop with an "imitation pistol." Smothers hopped into the back seat of his car, putting the fake gun to the officer's head and demanding money as the undercover cop was waiting to make his weapons purchase. Smothers escaped the scene with the whole sum - reportedly $2,400 - intended for the gun dealer, but was later arrested. He is now in hospital with serious injuries. The innocent victim's family was in a state of shock following the shooting. Kumi was a deeply spiritual man who "touched everyone he met," according to family members quoted by NY Daily News. The man, described as a devout Jehovah's Witness, was walking along Beekman Ave to pick up his car from a repair shop when he was twice struck by police bullets. "Mr. Kumi was blameless, and this tragedy has tested and tried his family," NYPD Police Commissioner Bill Bratton said in a statement on Saturday. "I pray that they may find comfort in their hope of resurrection and awakening." It was not immediately clear if the NYPD considered the undercover officer to be as blameless. According to Mount Vernon police commissioner Terrance Raynor and witnesses, the shooting spree also hit several vehicles, with bullets flying through windows of a nearby business and through the front door of a house. The NYPD Internal Affairs Bureau is said to be reviewing the tactics used by the undercover officer and his supervisors, which includes the cop's decision to break cover and fire shots. The officer, who has not been named, is described as a 10-year veteran of the NYPD, and had reportedly bought 25 guns from the same gun dealer, 28-year-old Jeffrey Aristy, in 10 previous encounters. The extensive firearm shopping was explained as necessary to identify Aristy's supplier, as part of a "long-terms firearms investigation." The suspected illegal arms dealer, who was reportedly also shot, initially slipped away from the scene, but was caught outside his home in the Bronx. The man has been charged with several counts of criminal sale of a firearm, as well as the sale of a controlled substance. The shooting incident is now being investigated by the Westchester County district attorney, while the state Attorney General's office has not yet decided if it will pursue the case in the police-involved killing. |
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This makes me think of the cop shows with guns blazing and nobody ever get hurt.
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This makes me think of the cop shows with guns blazing and nobody ever get hurt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ae6B7C05Nk |
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Once upon a time,
it was thought, that cops were trained to be deadly accurate With their service weapons. "Spray and pray", shows a reckless and deliberate wanton disregard for public safety. That an innocent bystander was killed due to the officer's very deliberate actions... The officer should be criminally charged, and serve a lengthy prison sentence (in general population). |
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Once upon a time, it was thought, that cops were trained to be deadly accurate With their service weapons. "Spray and pray", shows a reckless and deliberate wanton disregard for public safety. That an innocent bystander was killed due to the officer's very deliberate actions... The officer should be criminally charged, and serve a lengthy prison sentence (in general population). i almost agree, but i think the blame should fall on the criminal he was trying to arrest... he's the one that should be charged in that mans death, and the cop should get some sort of punishment, at least for reckless endangerment... |
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Once upon a time, it was thought, that cops were trained to be deadly accurate With their service weapons. "Spray and pray", shows a reckless and deliberate wanton disregard for public safety. That an innocent bystander was killed due to the officer's very deliberate actions... The officer should be criminally charged, and serve a lengthy prison sentence (in general population). i almost agree, but i think the blame should fall on the criminal he was trying to arrest... he's the one that should be charged in that mans death, and the cop should get some sort of punishment, at least for reckless endangerment... Gnome makes sense. This response is.... off. The officer draws points(different from aiming) and pulls the trigger between 11-21 times with his own hands and you think the person who the officer was shooting at should be charged with his death? The same guy whose gun wasn't real that was incapable of firing any rounds? The officer had no way of knowing this until the suspect was caught (by A bullet fired by the officer). This shows 1 a lack of judgement by this officer 2 an extremely poor exhibition of marksmanship by the officer and 3 just how unaccountable people can be of the existence of a problem. Illegal guns, where are they coming from? I recall posing that question several times to which I got a response from you and a few others that it doesn't matter, what matters is who they end up with. They don't float. Someone has to be providing them to the hotspots around the country. Yet when you post about a known illegal weapons dealer that the NYPD is 'working' to find his source, you push the blame to charge a man with a fake gun for a fatal shooting ... He is responsible for committing a robbery, not a shooting, definitely not a homicide. |
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Once upon a time, it was thought, that cops were trained to be deadly accurate With their service weapons. "Spray and pray", shows a reckless and deliberate wanton disregard for public safety. That an innocent bystander was killed due to the officer's very deliberate actions... The officer should be criminally charged, and serve a lengthy prison sentence (in general population). i almost agree, but i think the blame should fall on the criminal he was trying to arrest... he's the one that should be charged in that mans death, and the cop should get some sort of punishment, at least for reckless endangerment... Gnome makes sense. This response is.... off. The officer draws points(different from aiming) and pulls the trigger between 11-21 times with his own hands and you think the person who the officer was shooting at should be charged with his death? The same guy whose gun wasn't real that was incapable of firing any rounds? The officer had no way of knowing this until the suspect was caught (by A bullet fired by the officer). This shows 1 a lack of judgement by this officer 2 an extremely poor exhibition of marksmanship by the officer and 3 just how unaccountable people can be of the existence of a problem. Illegal guns, where are they coming from? I recall posing that question several times to which I got a response from you and a few others that it doesn't matter, what matters is who they end up with. They don't float. Someone has to be providing them to the hotspots around the country. Yet when you post about a known illegal weapons dealer that the NYPD is 'working' to find his source, you push the blame to charge a man with a fake gun for a fatal shooting ... He is responsible for committing a robbery, not a shooting, definitely not a homicide. the cop was doing his job, which is to STOP CRIME, in case you forget... i agree he was reckless, but it seems a lack of caring/good judgement on the cops part more than a deliberate murder... the criminal choose to break the law, and someone died in the poor judgement, on both parts... in other words, the cop never would have had to shoot if the criminal wasn't trying break the law... |
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Once upon a time, it was thought, that cops were trained to be deadly accurate With their service weapons. "Spray and pray", shows a reckless and deliberate wanton disregard for public safety. That an innocent bystander was killed due to the officer's very deliberate actions... The officer should be criminally charged, and serve a lengthy prison sentence (in general population). i almost agree, but i think the blame should fall on the criminal he was trying to arrest... he's the one that should be charged in that mans death, and the cop should get some sort of punishment, at least for reckless endangerment... Gnome makes sense. This response is.... off. The officer draws points(different from aiming) and pulls the trigger between 11-21 times with his own hands and you think the person who the officer was shooting at should be charged with his death? The same guy whose gun wasn't real that was incapable of firing any rounds? The officer had no way of knowing this until the suspect was caught (by A bullet fired by the officer). This shows 1 a lack of judgement by this officer 2 an extremely poor exhibition of marksmanship by the officer and 3 just how unaccountable people can be of the existence of a problem. Illegal guns, where are they coming from? I recall posing that question several times to which I got a response from you and a few others that it doesn't matter, what matters is who they end up with. They don't float. Someone has to be providing them to the hotspots around the country. Yet when you post about a known illegal weapons dealer that the NYPD is 'working' to find his source, you push the blame to charge a man with a fake gun for a fatal shooting ... He is responsible for committing a robbery, not a shooting, definitely not a homicide. the cop was doing his job, which is to STOP CRIME, in case you forget... i agree he was reckless, but it seems a lack of caring/good judgement on the cops part more than a deliberate murder... the criminal choose to break the law, and someone died in the poor judgement, on both parts... in other words, the cop never would have had to shoot if the criminal wasn't trying break the law... |
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Once upon a time, it was thought, that cops were trained to be deadly accurate With their service weapons. "Spray and pray", shows a reckless and deliberate wanton disregard for public safety. That an innocent bystander was killed due to the officer's very deliberate actions... The officer should be criminally charged, and serve a lengthy prison sentence (in general population). i almost agree, but i think the blame should fall on the criminal he was trying to arrest... he's the one that should be charged in that mans death, and the cop should get some sort of punishment, at least for reckless endangerment... I agree with Moe. The crime resulted in a homicide. There should be consequences for the criminal, especially. |
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Once upon a time, it was thought, that cops were trained to be deadly accurate With their service weapons. "Spray and pray", shows a reckless and deliberate wanton disregard for public safety. That an innocent bystander was killed due to the officer's very deliberate actions... The officer should be criminally charged, and serve a lengthy prison sentence (in general population). i almost agree, but i think the blame should fall on the criminal he was trying to arrest... he's the one that should be charged in that mans death, and the cop should get some sort of punishment, at least for reckless endangerment... Gnome makes sense. This response is.... off. The officer draws points(different from aiming) and pulls the trigger between 11-21 times with his own hands and you think the person who the officer was shooting at should be charged with his death? The same guy whose gun wasn't real that was incapable of firing any rounds? The officer had no way of knowing this until the suspect was caught (by A bullet fired by the officer). This shows 1 a lack of judgement by this officer 2 an extremely poor exhibition of marksmanship by the officer and 3 just how unaccountable people can be of the existence of a problem. Illegal guns, where are they coming from? I recall posing that question several times to which I got a response from you and a few others that it doesn't matter, what matters is who they end up with. They don't float. Someone has to be providing them to the hotspots around the country. Yet when you post about a known illegal weapons dealer that the NYPD is 'working' to find his source, you push the blame to charge a man with a fake gun for a fatal shooting ... He is responsible for committing a robbery, not a shooting, definitely not a homicide. the cop was doing his job, which is to STOP CRIME, in case you forget... i agree he was reckless, but it seems a lack of caring/good judgement on the cops part more than a deliberate murder... the criminal choose to break the law, and someone died in the poor judgement, on both parts... in other words, the cop never would have had to shoot if the criminal wasn't trying break the law... The fact that the robber committed a crime is not lost on me. Had this been a shoot out or high speed chase that resulted in an accidental death then I could understand force being met with force or equal involvement in regards to two active moving cars causing the death. Only one person fired shots, and far too many. Only one person had a real operable gun. Control of that gun was not in question, the officer had it in his posession and made a conscious decision to use deadly force which resulted in the death of an innocent man. It will most likely be charged as negligent homicide, along with property damage, and public endangerment. If the table was turned it would automatically be charged as murder one as most states have that written in their laws to protect the officers. There was no good reason that the officer could not have given chase until he was far enough away to call for backup without blowing his cover. The criminal did not fire any shots, nor was he able to. I know if I was going somewhere to buy something with cash and I got robbed I'd chase the guy long enough to see the getaway car or which direction he was going, armed or not. A few warning shots in the air or some at the ground around the suspect is what I'm sure his training�was, he made a snap decision and a bystander died. You can't commit a murder when you are running away from the murder weapon. Posession is 9/10ths of the law, the person in posession of the real gun was the same one who pulled that trigger possibly reloaded if the number of shots was closer to the higher estimate reported and did lots of damage including killing a completely innocent man. That responsible party is that officer. |
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If someone is involved in a criminal act and someone is killed, they are just as guilty as the shooter.
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$hit happens..... All though since the undercover cop had units near by since they never make those kind of moves without back up you would think he should have let it go and let one of the unmarked cars roll the robber....
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$hit happens..... All though since the undercover cop had units near by since they never make those kind of moves without back up you would think he should have let it go and let one of the unmarked cars roll the robber.... And the hammer goes to you, sir. You hit the nail on the head BUT were there backup surveillance stake out in place at the time? Idk. Should they have been, absolutely. Undercover ops are complicated, he couldn't blow his cover but when you're slinging lead like this your cover is blown anyway. Yes the guy robbed the cop but he did not pull the trigger. Should the suspect be charged for thoughts formed outside his head and acted upon without his muscles or will? All robberies with fake guns don't turn out that way. I'm not at all condoning the crime at all. In the pursuit of justice one is not supposed to break the law, right? The suspect was shot and detained and will be charged for the crime he committed. He snatched and ran. I doubt he ran backwards facing the officer screaming threats to shoot him(which he was incapable to do with a fake gun). We know he didn't fire any peremptory shots at the officer forcing him to CHOSE deadly force sustained with reckless abandon. Should he have SOME responsibility in the killing? Yes. Accessory, unwitting accessory, yeah. First degree, second degree, manslaughter, no. No. He did not make a conscious choice OR react/ reflexively accidently killing a bystander. From the time that he turned away and ran he had NO ABILITY to directly or indirectly influence the thoughts or actions of the officer. It is unconscionable to assume responsibility belongs to someone who never at any point had posession, partly or in whole, OR control of the weapon he was running away from. Believe me I understand the principle of collateral damage. I have seen it first hand to a much much higher degree. Walked through it. When there are two or more guns involved in a firefight I do believe in shared responsibility. I argued that point heavily in the Ferguson shooting on the night of the protest. Where is(are) the first shooter(s)? But here there is one smoking gun. One. In control of one officer. Fired repeatedly by one officer. Possibly reloaded and fired more by one officer who never HAD to fire one shot , as LP said he should have had support nearby listening and watching with recordings, pictures, possibly even high def video. They could have caught the guy. |
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$hit happens..... All though since the undercover cop had units near by since they never make those kind of moves without back up you would think he should have let it go and let one of the unmarked cars roll the robber.... And the hammer goes to you, sir. You hit the nail on the head BUT were there backup surveillance stake out in place at the time? Idk. Should they have been, absolutely. Undercover ops are complicated, he couldn't blow his cover but when you're slinging lead like this your cover is blown anyway. Yes the guy robbed the cop but he did not pull the trigger. Should the suspect be charged for thoughts formed outside his head and acted upon without his muscles or will? All robberies with fake guns don't turn out that way. I'm not at all condoning the crime at all. In the pursuit of justice one is not supposed to break the law, right? The suspect was shot and detained and will be charged for the crime he committed. He snatched and ran. I doubt he ran backwards facing the officer screaming threats to shoot him(which he was incapable to do with a fake gun). We know he didn't fire any peremptory shots at the officer forcing him to CHOSE deadly force sustained with reckless abandon. Should he have SOME responsibility in the killing? Yes. Accessory, unwitting accessory, yeah. First degree, second degree, manslaughter, no. No. He did not make a conscious choice OR react/ reflexively accidently killing a bystander. From the time that he turned away and ran he had NO ABILITY to directly or indirectly influence the thoughts or actions of the officer. It is unconscionable to assume responsibility belongs to someone who never at any point had posession, partly or in whole, OR control of the weapon he was running away from. Believe me I understand the principle of collateral damage. I have seen it first hand to a much much higher degree. Walked through it. When there are two or more guns involved in a firefight I do believe in shared responsibility. I argued that point heavily in the Ferguson shooting on the night of the protest. Where is(are) the first shooter(s)? But here there is one smoking gun. One. In control of one officer. Fired repeatedly by one officer. Possibly reloaded and fired more by one officer who never HAD to fire one shot , as LP said he should have had support nearby listening and watching with recordings, pictures, possibly even high def video. They could have caught the guy. |
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Edited by
Lpdon
on
Wed 09/02/15 09:41 PM
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$hit happens..... All though since the undercover cop had units near by since they never make those kind of moves without back up you would think he should have let it go and let one of the unmarked cars roll the robber.... And the hammer goes to you, sir. You hit the nail on the head BUT were there backup surveillance stake out in place at the time? Idk. Should they have been, absolutely. Undercover ops are complicated, he couldn't blow his cover but when you're slinging lead like this your cover is blown anyway. Yes the guy robbed the cop but he did not pull the trigger. Should the suspect be charged for thoughts formed outside his head and acted upon without his muscles or will? All robberies with fake guns don't turn out that way. I'm not at all condoning the crime at all. In the pursuit of justice one is not supposed to break the law, right? The suspect was shot and detained and will be charged for the crime he committed. He snatched and ran. I doubt he ran backwards facing the officer screaming threats to shoot him(which he was incapable to do with a fake gun). We know he didn't fire any peremptory shots at the officer forcing him to CHOSE deadly force sustained with reckless abandon. Should he have SOME responsibility in the killing? Yes. Accessory, unwitting accessory, yeah. First degree, second degree, manslaughter, no. No. He did not make a conscious choice OR react/ reflexively accidently killing a bystander. From the time that he turned away and ran he had NO ABILITY to directly or indirectly influence the thoughts or actions of the officer. It is unconscionable to assume responsibility belongs to someone who never at any point had posession, partly or in whole, OR control of the weapon he was running away from. Believe me I understand the principle of collateral damage. I have seen it first hand to a much much higher degree. Walked through it. When there are two or more guns involved in a firefight I do believe in shared responsibility. I argued that point heavily in the Ferguson shooting on the night of the protest. Where is(are) the first shooter(s)? But here there is one smoking gun. One. In control of one officer. Fired repeatedly by one officer. Possibly reloaded and fired more by one officer who never HAD to fire one shot , as LP said he should have had support nearby listening and watching with recordings, pictures, possibly even high def video. They could have caught the guy. I would be VERY surprised if he didn't have at least one unmarked car near him and the eye in the sky team some place in the area. I am not even bringing up the fact that he pretty much blew a long running under cover operation when clearly their goal wasn't met but within range and had to take action and take the guy before they got what they wanted. This cop is a $hit for brains. |
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Don, be so kind to inform us, at least in your state, the minimum age at which one can purchase ammunition.
Thank you in advance. Obviously in the above case, before the robbery takes place, the officer has been purchasing weapons illegaly from the dealer over time in hopes to reveal his source. The weapons purchased go into evidence for the case being built to show a pattern. Someone had to have tipped the NYPD to set up a long-term investigation. This means either a neighbor or other criminal whose gun came from Aristy. Which also means that they couldn't determine a source after a few transactions. Aristy wasn't getting the guns from local licensed dealers. There would be a record they could easily determine that to be the source. Running the numbers on the guns themselves, if they had any, would also have been done which should have turned up some names or businesses with regard to ownership or custody. If it didn't, which appears to have been the case here, HERE ARE YOUR FLOATING GUNS. The illegal ones? Yeah, those. Hint: guns are not shipped from the factories preloaded. So.... We have 2, count them 2, black market trafficking circuits of contraband that should never make it to the poverty stricken drug infested, oh wait that's 3 black markets, [hmm, black markets....] areas and predominantly black neighborhoods in OUR country. EVIDENCE^ |
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Don, be so kind to inform us, at least in your state, the minimum age at which one can purchase ammunition. Thank you in advance. Obviously in the above case, before the robbery takes place, the officer has been purchasing weapons illegaly from the dealer over time in hopes to reveal his source. The weapons purchased go into evidence for the case being built to show a pattern. Someone had to have tipped the NYPD to set up a long-term investigation. This means either a neighbor or other criminal whose gun came from Aristy. Which also means that they couldn't determine a source after a few transactions. Aristy wasn't getting the guns from local licensed dealers. There would be a record they could easily determine that to be the source. Running the numbers on the guns themselves, if they had any, would also have been done which should have turned up some names or businesses with regard to ownership or custody. If it didn't, which appears to have been the case here, HERE ARE YOUR FLOATING GUNS. The illegal ones? Yeah, those. Hint: guns are not shipped from the factories preloaded. So.... We have 2, count them 2, black market trafficking circuits of contraband that should never make it to the poverty stricken drug infested, oh wait that's 3 black markets, [hmm, black markets....] areas and predominantly black neighborhoods in OUR country. EVIDENCE^ 18 to buy ammunition. 18 to buy a rifle and 21 to buy a handgun. |
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Thanks Don.
So we have illegal guns loaded with illegal ammunition in the hands of teens, predominantly sharing territory with illegal drugs that do not originate in the United States but somehow find their way in mass quantities to low income low business presence high population of black hispanic and other immigrants because it is the only place they can afford to live and the education in these areas is far below the bar. This cannot happen by accident. Black conscious musicians have been telling us this since the 70's just not to the extent of what we SEE and KNOW today. They can't grow process or import the drugs. They recieve outside help. They can't buy ship or traffic the guns. They recieve outside help. They can't use the guns without ammunition they can't buy legally. They recieve outside help. The supply lines are not being cut. THEY recieve INSIDE help. |
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Edited by
germanchoclate1981
on
Fri 09/04/15 06:00 PM
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About those unAmerican drugs... A recent sting operation found 13 (a relatively small number) of law enforcement agents involved in a heroin and cocaine smuggling ring throughout the east coast. More to come.
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Once upon a time, it was thought, that cops were trained to be deadly accurate With their service weapons. "Spray and pray", shows a reckless and deliberate wanton disregard for public safety. That an innocent bystander was killed due to the officer's very deliberate actions... The officer should be criminally charged, and serve a lengthy prison sentence (in general population). i almost agree, but i think the blame should fall on the criminal he was trying to arrest... he's the one that should be charged in that mans death, and the cop should get some sort of punishment, at least for reckless endangerment... If you or I, fired a weapon into a crowd, and killed someone accidentally. We, would get a one-way ticket to Huntsville. The cop, should get some prison time, and never, ever be allowed to own, possess, or even be in the presence of firearms, and/or live ammunition. ... seein's how, he's proven himself to be a life threatening danger, to the general public. As to the original suspect... I hope that moron bled out. |
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